C++ Where to start. what to do?

[codemonkey]

Ok you guys obviously don't get it so I'll clarify.

Low level languages are almost identical to machine code, like Assembly. Middle level languages are sort of similar but have it's own syntax, they usually have the ability to use memory allocation. High level languages are very different from machine code. Even more so with very high level programming languages.

[UndeadDragon]

Originally Posted by Lyerae

> And c++ is not that advanced compared to python, there is just more code to write before you get any results.
And that's why Python is better to start with.

I'm sorry, but I do not agree with this. Just because you have to write a bit more code (very basic stuff) it does not make it any worse. Of course, if there was lots more code everywhere it might be a bit different.

I personally dislike the syntax of Python and I personally would not recommend it to a beginner, because of how it is different from conventional syntax. I personally started with C++ and I had no problems learning it (and I can also easily learn other languages, as it has a similar syntax).

[Samael88]

Originally Posted by UndeadDragon

I personally dislike the syntax of Python and I personally would not recommend it to a beginner, because of how it is different from conventional syntax. I personally started with C++ and I had no problems learning it (and I can also easily learn other languages, as it has a similar syntax).

See, that was exactly what I was trying to say

[codemonkey]

Don't get me wrong, I think C++ is a great language too but it's slowly but surely being replaced.

Here's a great article comparing C++ and Python:

http://theunixgeek.blogspot.com/2008...hon-speed.html

And another neat thing about Python is you can use C(++) code inside of it.

http://heim.ifi.uio.no/~kent-and/sof...c/Instant.html

[Xienoph]

C++ is a really old language. If you don't really care about performance, I suggest moving to something more modern.

Since the thread owner wants to make games (right?), then I'll suggest that you start learning C++. There are concepts that are abstracted from higher level languages like Python and C# that you will (probably) need in C++. Since you'll end up programming in C++, might as well start by learning that.

[Icyculyr]

I use Visual Studio 2008 Pro Edition, they have a Beta of VS 2010, it's pretty good.
I highly recommend VS, I learned VB, and the more I learned I became better with C++ as I understood it more.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/vstudio/dd582936.aspx

Visual Studio 2010 Ultimate I think would be the one to download, I'm not sure though.

EDIT: if your after games, I'd trial VS 2008 Pro and download and install XNA Game Studio, I think it's designed for building Windows & XBOX 360 games using C# syntax, I've used it before and liked it.

[ElderKingpin]

i dont want to make games persay, i may want to do that. but i want to step into it. I want to make some simple programs first. For example. A word scrambler. that takes the first and last letter of a word, and randomly scrambles all of the letters in-between

[codemonkey]

Python would be the way to go for that honestly.

[ElderKingpin]

you think python is the way to go for everything.

[codemonkey]

No, you're absolutely incorrect.

Python is best for making lightweight applications and it has an easy syntax, I personally wouldn't use it for making 3D applications.

[Samael88]

Originally Posted by ElderKingpin

i dont want to make games persay, i may want to do that. but i want to step into it. I want to make some simple programs first. For example. A word scrambler. that takes the first and last letter of a word, and randomly scrambles all of the letters in-between

That c++ is great for. The thing about c++ is that it does not have many limitations, you don't need to learn everything about it to make a simple program as that.
There is actually enought information on those tutorialpages I mentioned earlier to do just that.

Originally Posted by codemonkey

Python is best for making lightweight applications and it has an easy syntax, I personally wouldn't use it for making 3D applications.

Dude, python is a descent language, but c++ is better to learn from the beginning and that's it.
3D apps are no problem at all with python btw, the code tends to be a bit messy tho, "mount and blade" is a 3D game written in python and it runs smooth and well, there is even HD addons for it that works just fine.

If we compare the two examples you used earlier, what do you learn about programming from this "print Hello World!"?
1. That python is simple.
2. How to print text with python.

What do you learn from this:

#include <iostream>
using namespace std;
void main()
{
  cout << "Hello World!" << endl;
}

1. How to use headers.
2. Writing a simple function.
3. Using namespaces.
4. Displaying text.
5. How to jump to the next line to write.

That is why I personally think that c++ is better for beginners, python is just to easy for a beginner to actually learn something about programming from it.

[ElderKingpin]

i think making the word scrambler is harder then you think. My dad told me you would first have to make an array variable for the letters so the variable could have more then one variable. And have the first letter to be [loc 1] and the last letter to be [loc 7] (i used the word "Macbook") and have the system scramble location 2-6. Then you would need more variables to handle more words (handling more words was my idea btw, i thought of that through common sense

[Vestras]

VS2010 comes with a new MFC package that enables you to create Office 2007/Visual Studio like applications in no time. (Actually they're templates)

MFC makes C++ code much more readable, and then it actually looks good compared to Win32 native bullshit.

[TheDamien]

Originally Posted by Samael88

That c++ is great for. The thing about c++ is that it does not have many limitations, you don't need to learn everything about it to make a simple program as that.

Well your example below shows that you do need to understand several parts of C++ in order to write a simple program.

Originally Posted by Samael88

Dude, python is a descent language, but c++ is better to learn from the beginning and that's it.

There are few good reasons to believe that this is the case, and many good reasons to believe that it isn't.

Originally Posted by Samael88

What do you learn from this:
...

You don't learn anything from that. It's the explanation that comes with the code that you learn from. A new programmer would probably be able to deduce that "cout" has something to do with "Hello World!" appearing on the screen, but little beyond that.

The hello world program you provided, by the way, is incorrect.

Originally Posted by Samael88

That is why I personally think that c++ is better for beginners, python is just to easy for a beginner to actually learn something about programming from it.

If you are learning Python (or Ruby, or C++, etc), then you are learning the fundamentals of programming. C++ might require boilerplate for the simplest programs, but that doesn't mean that it is better for learning.

[codemonkey]

Python 3D is easy but since Python is interpreted it's going to be slower when you're making hundreds of large calculations each second.

For 3D I'd go with D, but before D came out I would've gone with C++.

______

On another note to make a word scrambler in python you'd just need to use yourstrvar.count(sub[, start[, end]])

http://docs.python.org/library/stdtypes.html