Nestharus: uhm... guys Nestharus: I solved attack indexing ;o Nestharus: so far nobody has cared and it's kinda depressing :( tom_mai78101: Don't worry, I'm still busy with life. tom_mai78101: To be honest, if people just post updates here in the Shoutbox, I'll always see it no matter what. tom_mai78101: It's related to me posting news articles, as I always see the Shoutbox whenever I am posting new ones. tom_mai78101: Also, note that activity here are completely opposite from each other. You're active right now, but everyone else isn't. When you're asleep, all the fun and chaos appear from nowhere. Nestharus: well, no, it's not that Nestharus: I talked about it on THW, nobody cared Nestharus: they were like, you're still on wc3? Nobody will use it, we don't care Nestharus: talked about it on wc3, they were like, don't care Nestharus: D: Nestharus: just a year people were trying to solve it Nestharus: and it's not like anyone will use it but me now too >.< vypur85: You just need to have a realisation that nothing lasts forever. It's time to move on. Nestharus: lol Nestharus: there's nothing to move on to atm ^)^ Nestharus: but Dota 2's editor will be coming out at some point, so that might be fun tom_mai78101: Hm.... We should really start considering what other things can we expand on. Nestharus: mm Nestharus: still tho Nestharus: btw, it was orb of lightning that enabled the unit to target air right? Nestharus: cuz I'm thinking you can make an item like a bow, and when the unit picks it up, it can start hitting air, plus the bow'll have its own cooldown based on the unit's skill with a bow ^)^ Nestharus: we can also tie in accuracy and evasion scores Nestharus: so if the unit is not very accurate with a bow and its trying to hit something far away, i'tll likelyh miss Nestharus: if that something also has a very high evasion score, it's def ganna miss tom_mai78101: hiding abilites is a pain. tom_mai78101: Nestharus, you've got mail! tom_mai78101: Reply to read. Varine: We all moved on to standalone projects, which is significantly more time consuming. Nestharus: huh? And yea, I suppose ^)^ Accname: I did not just move on to a standalone project, I moved on to several at once! Accname: Yeah, I am THAT badassx Varine: Yeah, pretty much the same story for all of us. Mine all kind of revolve around the same core systems though, I just haven't really made them. Varine: Should have taken more programming classes when that was my major Nestharus: ;o Nestharus: I don't even know what to code in general programming atm ^)^ Nestharus: like, right now I have a compiler project, but that's about it Nestharus: Well, actually, there is one thing :eek: Nestharus: omg that face made me die Nestharus: A spell crafting system that lets you craft spells from various elements in real-time in a game ^)^ Nestharus: An enemy mage can view your spell as you craft it and attempt to counter it :eek: Nestharus: omg, I did it again > . < Nestharus: I think that'd be pretty cool though Nestharus: the casting time of the spell would be its complexity + the time it takes you to actually make it Nestharus: then spells could possibly be influenced by the environmtoo Nestharus: like if you are in a volcano, it might be easier for you to cast fire spells because of the stuff around you Nestharus: ; D Nestharus: players would then use the skills of their characters and their own knowledge to fight and so on Nestharus: and they'd do their own research Nestharus: I was studying a bit of chemistry and physics to try and figure out a good way to lay this out tom_mai78101: You should share your colpiler project with us at General Member's Project. Nestharus: I'd like it to be toitally open ended, following a few simple laws tom_mai78101: *Compiler Nestharus: I've yet to solve it :( Nestharus: : (* tom_mai78101: Uh... tom_mai78101: You lost me. Nestharus: ? Varine: Yeah, I stopped paying attention a long time . Nestharus: lol.. Nestharus: Ok, imagine casting spells in a game realistically Nestharus: like a scientist of magic Nestharus: and actually studying magic Nestharus: that's the premise Nestharus: you'd do your own research, you'd figure out how to cast spells, and you'd actually cast them Nestharus: rather than just click a little button Nestharus: sound cool? Varine: I don't play video games so I can do work to figure out how to play it Nestharus: lol Nestharus: it's more for a sandbox environment Nestharus: there's actually one other problem that I'd like to solve too Nestharus: so far, people have stated that it has no solution ^)^ Nestharus: but that's what they said about doing division one digit at a time and I proved them wrong >: o tom_mai78101: Thumacraft in a nutshell. Nestharus: the idea is to, given a set of points Nestharus: split these points into regions containing a maximal number of points with the maximal number of regions possible Nestharus: without any region overlapping Nestharus: so if I had 7 points and a group size of 3 Nestharus: I wouldn't go 2, 2, 2, 1 for as even as possible Nestharus: er, not maximal number of regions, maximal full regions* Nestharus: I'd go 3, 3, 1 Nestharus: for 2 maxed out regions Nestharus: 2,2,2,1 gives 0, 3,3,1 gives 2 Nestharus: how do I do it? Nestharus: without brforce Varine: I do not know what the fuck you are talking about. Nestharus: If I have 7 points Nestharus: spread across an area Nestharus: I want to split the area into regions containing these points Nestharus: each region should have a max radius r Nestharus: and a max number of points m Nestharus: and I should split it up into the maximum amount of full regions possible Nestharus: without making any region overlap Nestharus: a region = a shape enclosing the points Nestharus: like a blob Nestharus: make sense now Varine? : ) tom_mai78101: In programming sense, you want to have M max points for each regions R of group size S. Right? tom_mai78101: You have 7 points in total in a map, demanding that it needs 3 regions with max group size of 3. Varine: Voronoi diagram? tom_mai78101: There will be 3 points in Region A, another 3 points in Region B, and 1 point in Region C. tom_mai78101: Varine, yes I think. Accname: @Nestharus: Doesnt everybody want to make such a system nowadays? Accname: I wanted to make this before it was cool. Accname: I actually even had a wc3 map with this. Accname: But eventually I realized this was boring as fuck Accname: Took too much time and too much attention Varine: I made designs for similar games, but I also realized how terrible it would be tom_mai78101: You lack passion. tom_mai78101: @Accname Nestharus: well Nestharus: so does anyone know how to do it? :eek: Nestharus: er : o Varine: Complicated games do not sell Nestharus: I wanted to do it for Tower Wars Varine: Yes, I just said: Voronoi diagram Nestharus: every group of 3 disciple towers you built would summon down an angel from the heavens to protect them ^)^ Nestharus: the angel would roam the region Nestharus: as you sold/built towers, the regions would change to continue to have as many full regions as possible Nestharus: and angels would move around tom_mai78101: stop!!! Nestharus: ? tom_mai78101: stop. Accname: all that spame tom_mai78101: You are skipping too many details. Accname: tom cant keep up tom_mai78101: uh...okay.... Accname: yo nestharus, how about you put that in some kind of discussion thread Nestharus: I tried asking it, nobody could solve it Nestharus: I tried on every wc3 site + stack overflow tom_mai78101: Nestharus, you need to solve your idea one step at a time. tom_mai78101: Concept in mind: DIVIDE AND CONQUER Varine: I think the issue is no one wanted to solve it for you Accname: well, but I am better then nobody Nestharus: tom, I know.. Varine: I have my own complicated shit to work with Nestharus: the only stpe I can't solve is splitting the regions up.. tom_mai78101: Varine said to use Voronoi Diagrams. You can look up how it was made using Wikipedia. Varine: Did you know that you need like eight classes of nouns in order to effectively map it out objectively? tom_mai78101: If you flatten all of the mumbo-jumbo abstract concepts have, you'll see that it's as simple as 1, 2, 3. Accname: I am currently designing my own scripting language Accname: for a little project of mine Accname: its awesome Varine: I will be getting there, but that's a couple years away Varine: At least Accname: Its actually really fun, didnt do something that was as much fun as this for a long time Accname: (not including sex in the above sentence) tom_mai78101: Perfect scripting language name: Steroids on Rails. Nestharus: ohhh Nestharus: this is computational geometry tom_mai78101: yes tom_mai78101: perfect, next step. Varine: Draw lines between towers to form triangles. Done. Nestharus: er.. actually, I have no idea what to do.. tom_mai78101: Also, leave out the details with the angels and spells, those aren;t important to your region creating systems. Nestharus: tom, I was just stating wht I was going to use it for tom_mai78101: Try this: Vectors, 2D Cartesian coordinates. Nestharus: everyone always demands to konw what I'm going to use something for before helping me Nestharus: lol.. Nestharus: I don't see how that will help me find the regions though.. tom_mai78101: I know, but if you go too far in your usages, you;ll easily be demotivated, Nestharus: ?? tom_mai78101: leave out pretty usgaes, ideas, just work on simple implementations. Nestharus: I get how to make the triangles using the towers.. but I don't get how that helps me Nestharus: tom, I always do Nestharus: it's other people that always demand examples tom_mai78101: usages, ideas, concepts, magic, spells, angels, units, etc. Leave them out. Nestharus: lmao... ur not reading what I'm saying : P tom_mai78101: You want to get "the points" across, not examples. Nestharus: actually, I start with something I want to do, like the tower, then I break it up into all of the required pieces ^)^ tom_mai78101: That's divide and conquer Nestharus: yup Nestharus: that's also top-down perspective tom_mai78101: I digress. Have you finished your Voronoi Diagrams? Nestharus: anyways, so how does the diagram help me? Nestharus: I don't know how that will help me.. tom_mai78101: It fits your description with making regions of group size threso=holds for each region given in your map. tom_mai78101: thresholds Nestharus: I have all of the triangles sure.. but then what? tom_mai78101: Using a combination of arrays, vectors, and Cartesian coordinates, you'll be able to create Regions, max size, width, height, and a list of regions for you to manipulate. tom_mai78101: Isn't there a function that calculates how many units in a given region? Nestharus: but the problem is.. it's not always the closet point Nestharus: or the frarthest point Nestharus: ... tom_mai78101: Use a circle instead of a rectangle. Nestharus: ur not listening ;D Varine: You aren't making sense Nestharus: that diagram will either do all closest to form it tom_mai78101: Or rather, use the point of origin, calculate the shortest distance from point X to origin using vectors, and volia! Nestharus: or all farthest Nestharus: the regions forming the points have a combination of the two Nestharus: it's not uniform Nestharus: that is, if you want to find the maximal full regions possible tom_mai78101: Are you including those two points with your group size? Nestharus: and actually calculate them all out Nestharus: no Varine: Okay start over here Varine: What is a full region? As opposed to a partial region? Nestharus: a full region contains N arbitrary points tom_mai78101: CLUE: Vectors. You can calculate which points are closer, larger, or further. Nestharus: a partial region contains < N Nestharus: tom, I'm not an idiot ;p Varine: < N means more than N tom_mai78101: Full region is U. Partial region is any region of P in U. U is a superset of P. Varine: Nevermind Nestharus: I read it less than N Nestharus: and no tom Nestharus: U would be the entire plane Nestharus: a region would be a subset of the plane containing N arbitrary points Nestharus: and then a partial region would contain less than N arbitrary points Nestharus: so if N is 3, then all full regions must contain exactly 3 points Nestharus: the next point is that none of these regions may overlap Nestharus: and you must make as many of these full regions as possible Varine: So if I have four towers, instead of being a triangle is would be a quadrilateral? tom_mai78101: Arbitrary sized regions? Nestharus: and that of course, they have a max distance from the center R to any given point along the edge of the region Nestharus: Varine, no Nestharus: tom, the regions just have to enclose the points Nestharus: they can be any shape Nestharus: which is why I said they were a blob Nestharus: 4 don't have to be a rectangle, u could have 3 bunched together like a traignel Nestharus: and 1 far off Nestharus: if you had 3/3 in the center Nestharus: and 1 far off to the lft and 1 far off to the right Nestharus: : ) Varine: Okay this is fucking ridiculous. You need to draw a diagram of some kind Nestharus: ur diagram would fail : P tom_mai78101: No, draw it out. tom_mai78101: I can't think now. tom_mai78101: I'm sweating under the blistering sun. Varine: It's not my diagram, it's yours Varine: If you can't draw out what you are talking about, then you then you need to rethink your plan Nestharus: sec Nestharus: http://www.scriblink.com/index.jsp?act=phome&roomid=188&KEY=B5EDA20808CFD6692DCFEB18B90F43C0 Nestharus: drew it Nestharus: the idea is that some points may look more suitable for a region because they are closer Nestharus: but if you take those, then other regions fall apart Nestharus: even if those other regions have points that are farther away Nestharus: so it's not as simple as your diagram :) Varine: Fuck man, I have to switch OS's here to use flash... couldn't have just, like, made a jpeg or something normal? Nestharus: one mom>.> Nestharus: there is no easy way no Varine: And I don't have java on here either. Varine: Damn chromebook Varine: How do you install java on Ubuntu? You can't use the RPM can you? Nestharus: it's hell Nestharus: gimme a moment Nestharus: I'm putting it up on chat Nestharus: it's going to take a very long time Nestharus: so you'll have to wait awhile Nestharus: cuz I have to make the image, then I have to recover my password from a website for storing pictures Nestharus: hen I gotta upload it Nestharus: vs just giving you a link of a pic I drew online tom_mai78101: Just use Imgur Accname: why dont you just make a screenshot of that image Accname: and upload it to a free image hoster? tom_mai78101: Faster, more easier alternative to any other image hosting sites. Accname: I would say there is about 100 others which are exactly equal Nestharus: [​IMG]http://i.imgur.com/lpq3tH1.jpg[/IMG] tom_mai78101: What? Varine A momVarine: That is a terrible diagram Accname: what the f Nestharus: I drew it by hand.. Nestharus: what do u expect? Varine A momVarine: Something that makes sense? tom_mai78101: I thought it could be more clearer than that. Nestharus: that makes sense.. lol Accname: is this supposed to be some kind of vertex cover problem Nestharus: I have 4 regions filled out Nestharus: the entire plane isn't covreed with regions Nestharus: there are open spaces Nestharus: otherwise u may have blogs that have a larger distance from the center than R Nestharus: blobs* Nestharus: all I did was take a set of 12 points and split them into as many full regions as possible Nestharus: ^)^ tom_mai78101: I think I get it. Blurry, but I think I got the picture. Varine: Use an ellipse with three foci Nestharus: but I don't know what 3 points to pick :eek: Nestharus: er : o Nestharus: or rather, what N points Nestharus: as u see with bottom left 2 regions, they have a combination of close and far point tom_mai78101: The middle of convex N-gon? Varine: Is that the problem? tom_mai78101: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_center Varine: You don't know how to make it pick the right ones? Nestharus: tom, I know how to calculate the center of a triangle Nestharus: Varine, correct ^)^ Nestharus: if I knew how to make it pick the right ones, I could just stop there, lol Nestharus: I'd be happy if I could even pick the right ones tom_mai78101: oh............... Nestharus: I don't even care about the shape, just as long as I get the points Varine: Just a run a fucking bubble comparison. Pick three, calculate size, index, move on. Nestharus: I can't.. Nestharus: I can't do a brforce approach Varine: Because? Nestharus: too much overhead Varine: Not if you do it right Nestharus: I'm not doing a brforce approach, lol Nestharus: the big crux of the problem was not doing a brforce approach.. tom_mai78101: But rather a more efficiway of picking out those three? Nestharus: yes Nestharus: this might run over 1200+ points Nestharus: and have to create 400+ sets, depending on partials/fulls Nestharus: and it will have to do it in the blink of an eye Nestharus: in JASS Nestharus: if I used bubble sort, I'd kill warcraft 3 Nestharus: just like I couldn't use A* for detecting if a path existed Nestharus: cuz A* kills wc3 Accname: why are you trying to do anything with wc3? Nestharus: ofc, I'd use this same algorithm in future games, it'd go in my library of cool shit : D Varine: The only way you are going to calculate the size of a potential region is calculate the size of the potential region Nestharus: well, it depends on how you look at the problem tom_mai78101: Or you can just limit the total number of points in a map. tom_mai78101: Like 10. Nestharus: I can't do that, that's cheating, lmao tom_mai78101: How many players are going to play your map? Nestharus: for the one I'm thinking of, 6, but there are easily 700+ towers Nestharus: to 1200 Nestharus: at a time Varine: I am looking at the problem objectively and you are asking for a way to calculate potential regions without calculating potential regions Nestharus: precisely ^)^ Nestharus: do you know how I calculated digit by digit division? I didn't : P Nestharus: I did multiplication instead tom_mai78101: It's an NP problem. tom_mai78101: nevermind. tom_mai78101: I'm dumb. Nestharus: ? Varine: I had a customer like you today Varine: Wanted a well done burger, but still a little pink Nestharus: lmao Nestharus: it's all about how you think about the problem Nestharus: it may be possible to determine the points without calculating the potential regions Nestharus: there may be another way ^)^ Varine: You can estimate the regions using the methods we already said, but you aren't going to calculate the region unless you calculate the region Varine: Or you can find a less intensive way to path your angel things tom_mai78101: A simple "Move to point X, Y" is suffice. Nestharus: do you know how I made a trigger in Warcraft 3 that was faster than a native trigger? Nestharus: ';.;' Nestharus: I created a list of balanced binary trees that were built like b-trees with only 2 children per node, each parnode being an Or() Nestharus: only the bottoms of the trees contained the actual functions Nestharus: after this, I'd build the trees in the list into a single tree Varine: Do you know how I overcame the obstacles in my designs in Warcraft III? Nestharus: this would result in a single boolean expression that could then be added to atrigger Nestharus: which was ~5% faster than a native trigger Varine: I stopped using a twelve year old video game to develop mine. Nestharus: furthermore, it allowed you to add triggers to triggers Nestharus: lol.. Varine: Why are you telling me this? Nestharus: to show that I'm willing to go to any length to get good performance and behavior : P Nestharus: this was all so that I could do TriggerRemoveCondition in a trigger evaluation Nestharus: lol.. Varine: I still fail to see why vornoi diagrams won't work because I see multiple ways, but I've lost interest now. I really do not care about Warcraft. Nestharus: ok, so if you used voronoi diagram Nestharus: that would splice the area up appropriately Nestharus: and then let you calculate, estimate, the regions, containing the proper points Nestharus: the problem is that it still doesn't address the issue that you still have to calculate the region : ( Nestharus: I guess there's no good way to do it, oh well ^)^ Nestharus: maybe in 2-3 years I'll figure it out Nestharus: ty for your time : ) tom_mai78101: Thank you for using The Helper Forums Customer's Support Chat. We are open 24/7. Have a good day! :) Varine: Calculate the region after picking it. Nestharus: btw http://www.thehelper.net/threads/how-to-get-beautiful-face.162113/ Nestharus: spam tom_mai78101: Thanks. Nestharus: and a bot member Nestharus: btw, this really is a beautiful site ; o Nestharus: it's too bad it's so dead tom_mai78101: Not unless you count how active it is in the Headline News. Nestharus: lol Nestharus: compared to THW, it's rather dead : p tom_mai78101: We make up for what it is. Nestharus: oh well, I think imma save the rest of the work I need to do for DDS for tomorrow =o tom_mai78101: Night time there? tom_mai78101: 3:16Pm here. Nestharus: 12:18 am Nestharus: I've gotten it down to 3 events, I think that's good ^)^ Varine: We'll have a lot of standalone software coming out of here eventually Varine: It's 12:20 here Nestharus: ON_DAMAGE_BEFORE (global), ON_DAMAGE (local), ON_DAMAGE_AFTER (global) Nestharus: Varine, I'm rather interested in compilers ;D Nestharus: but Antlr is annoying, so I was making a compiler to compile Antlr.. Nestharus: to give me more stuff Nestharus: lol.. Varine: Oh Nestharus: I want modules that I can import + push/pop Nestharus: and I can't have both Varine: I have an interest in genetics, but that isn't an easily communicable topic. Nestharus: Antlr isn't that hard : o Nestharus: u can learn it in like 1 day, pretty easy tom_mai78101: If you're practicing medicine, it's a differstory. Nestharus: yes... he said genetics in response to Antlr, and I took that as meaning Antlr was crazy or something >.<, or not easily communicable Nestharus: it's like if you call somoene and they immediately hang up on you Nestharus: you can either take it to mean that they accidentally hung up Nestharus: or they made a point to show their dislike tom_mai78101: We're pretty direct. Nestharus: and if they don't call back, you can certainly assume the latter tom_mai78101: We don't assume, we just do. Nestharus: the language I wanted to make uhm tom_mai78101: Uhm? What language is that? Nestharus: trying to find my notes on it :eek: Nestharus: we : o tom_mai78101: Huh? Nestharus: here's one example Nestharus: #name = "hi" Nestharus: string $name = "$$name" //string hi = "hi", lol... Nestharus: that's the interpolation operator Nestharus: I had some smart lexing going on too -> "hello there $name[GetPlayerId(GetLocalPlayer())]! Your income is ${team.income + income[GetPlayerId(GetLocalPlayer())]}." Nestharus: oh -> "${"$name"}" Nestharus: lmao Nestharus: { } represents a block of code that can be modified Nestharus: well, it represents a scope Nestharus: ${ } would be an interpolated scope Nestharus: #{ } would be preprocessor Nestharus: you could define languages that way too Nestharus: I'm trying to find my notes D: tom_mai78101: You might want to try GitHub StudPlan. Free if you're a studfor 2 years. Nestharus: I deleted the repo.. tom_mai78101: ... sorry... Nestharus: I FOUND THEM Nestharus: woo Nestharus: that's right.. Nestharus: set i[vjass o] = vjass 4 Nestharus: each language had its own scope Nestharus: and you could use the languages in expressions Nestharus: like vjass o Nestharus: vjass function hi takes nothing returns nothing Nestharus: endfunctoin Nestharus: that's one such example Nestharus: cjass void hi() { } Nestharus: that's cjass for comparison itom_mai78101: You'll have to write up a documentation for the syntax. Varine: My cat just rolled off my bed. Nestharus: I have it.. lol Nestharus: I'm just cnping interesting examples : p Nestharus: that's not even the interesting stuff tho Accname: Do you think anybody could read all of this?! Accname: As I said, just open a thread. Shoutbox aint strong enough for your needs tom_mai78101: @Varine, RIP cat. Varine: He's fine Nestharus: type x extends private integer tom_mai78101: Oh. Varine: I used to have a screen on one of my windows and he would jump and catch on it with his claws and annoy the shit out of me when he wanted back inside Varine: Took it off think he would stop, fucking jumped headlong into it, bounced off, then did it again tom_mai78101: Updated Pokémon WalkingYou can now save/load persistdata, along with your custom maps created by the level editor. Varine: So I think I got Java installed Nestharus: : o tom_mai78101: @Varine, Natural instincts doing God's work. Varine: On Ubuntu Nestharus: nice ^)^ Varine: Not on Chrome Nestharus: there was something really interesting with external and internal scopes.. Nestharus: like.. you'd call a function and it'd end up importing the code from that function to your scope.. Varine: Dude you have no idea how tough this cat is Varine: I have seen him straight up fight a coyote tom_mai78101: @Varine, Cat bro. tom_mai78101: @Nestharus, would you like to create a thread for that? Nestharus: no, lol, I still can't find all my notes either tom_mai78101: If you create a thread, history will now remembers what you have wrote down. tom_mai78101: history will *then*... Varine: Have you considered a filing cabinet? tom_mai78101: RIP Nestharus's Notes.