AoS Legacy of Heroes [Beta] - May version released

[Furby]

Why you comparing my map to Dota? There are so many AoS maps, why you comparing certainly to Dota? O____o"

 

[CixxyZ]

Hmm that is true, but you can surely change the gameplay around in an AoS, it's not restricted right?
Im comparing to Dota cause its been around for ages and is the AoS standard. So if you have the same gameplay you're definitely competing against it and I dont know if thats a wise thing to do.

 

[Crusher]

Well, I actually cannot change my title.

I have to wait until some admin will come, because phyrex1an doesn't want to do it, even if it takes about 3 seconds.

Send a PM to Romek about this. He changes my requests all the time.

:thup:

 

[Furby]

Hmm that is true, but you can surely change the gameplay around in an AoS, it's not restricted right?
Im comparing to Dota cause its been around for ages and is the AoS standard. So if you have the same gameplay you're definitely competing against it and I dont know if thats a wise thing to do.

This map is in very beta stage, I'm planning to make big gameplay changes I just want to make map stable and have finished terrain as well as my new system which will be able to trigger all abilities.

 

[CixxyZ]

okay, that's good to know. You ahve a solid base to work on already just make the gameplay innovative and it'll be great. Keep it up

 

[Furby]

okay, that's good to know. You ahve a solid base to work on already just make the gameplay innovative and it'll be great. Keep it up

Thank you for your support.

 

[Viikuna]

Competing against DotA in quality is no problem, and it has been done many times.

Competing against DotA in popularity is another story. It has been done succesfully before, back in the day when wc3 was more popular than DotA. For example: it actually took one year for DotA to become more popular than ToB again, after the last the ToB update.
Today its no longer possible, because DotA is now more popular than wc3 itself, which is dying now, so you simply cant build bigger player space for any other map anymore.



Its like with some hollywood movies. Those movies that sell most are usually very unimaginative and the only reason why people watch them, is because they wanna see their favorite actors.

But yea, you are kinda right. Most of AoS maps in these days are indeed DotA copies. Then again, DotA used to be a copy too, but noone remembers this because its the only popular one left.

( In case you are wondering why DotA is called DotA Allstars, heres the reason: The idea behind that map was to steal all the best ideas from other DotA maps. There used to be many of those around, back in the day. )



"Theres no back in the day motherfuckers!" -Cheese

 

[CixxyZ]

Wow, that's such a negative way to look at it.
I think that if you take an innovative enough gameplay approach, people won't see it as a dota quality / popularity competitor. I think nowadays like you said with a smaller war3 gamer base its the only logical approach.
At the moment though, this map is like a direct copy of Dota gameplay and I'd like to see some changes.

 

[Furby]

At the moment though, this map is like a direct copy of Dota gameplay and I'd like to see some changes.

There'll be. More of them. I promise. :thup: I've never wanted to make dota-copy map.

 

[Joccaren]

There'll be. More of them. I promise. :thup: I've never wanted to make dota-copy map.

Yeah, check the Hero and item idea threads, one of the first things specified is 'Nothing from DotA'

It might be good to rename the towers from just the basic 'Guard Tower Level 1' 'Guard Tower Level 2' and such, maybe even give them their own advantage over different types of units? The Guard tower one stuff adds more similarity to DotA, which is what you don't want. You could use things like 'Guard Tower' 'Ancient Defender' and such or give them ranks 'Beginner Archer's tower' 'Intermediate Archer's Tower' 'Elite Archer's Tower'. Maybe, later on, you could give the player the ability to specialise that tower for something through an upgrade, like give it more range by upgrading it to a Sniper's tower, or more attack targets by upgrading to a Ranger's Tower.

Also, it would look better to create a 'Necklace of begginers' for the Hero when it spawns, rather than have one just lying around the base.

Maybe also add in more hints like 'You can find more item holding items in the forest'

When will you add the workers into the game? and if their already in the game, where are they?

 

[avalya]

Maybe make the towers have special abilities, such as passives, auto-cast or even active ones? That would make it slightly more unique, and your towers could each have different ones (just remember that is has to be kept balanced, so undead towers don't have overpowered abilities while the night elves' tower sucks).

 

[Zack1996]

Make the tower kick more ass late game. Towers are practically useless in most games when players get epic items.

Anyway, I doubt that Tower Upgrades would go faster than the enemies' item purchasing rate. I would suggest small upgrades for all towers whenever 1 is destroyed or something It would give a team some chances to get back up on their feet.

 

[Viikuna]

No no no.

Tower upgrading sucks for one single reason: It just prolongs the game.

( Actually, Ive seen one AoS where tower upgrading worked pretty nicely, but that was just because at the same time your army and the whole town was upgraded too, and the idea was to sabotage enemys caravans to slow their town upgrading down to gain some advantage. Map was called The Legend of Sand. It had some pretty damn cool ideas, but too much PvE actions and quite bad PvP combat. I still kinda liked it, though. )

If towers are too weak at the lategame, its probably because the power difference between 1 and N level hero is too big. This means that you need to either decerease the power growth of heroes, or make level one heroes stronger, or do both.

Best way is to buff early game. For example giving them more than one ability point at level 1 and give them higher starting stats or something.


Also you could try some new mechanics for towers. You could for example give them some hardened skin ability, or some special armor type, so that only siege weapons can really deal damage to them.

This way heroes role would only be to protect these slow moving catapults, when they take towers down.

You could even get rid of towers and use some units to protect your base, if you can script some good enough AI for them.


The thing is that people rarely try anything different and thats why we dont know if that stuff works or not.


Anyways, AoS is all about Hero vs Hero combat. Other things are just secondary stuff. The thing you should be doing is to find new mechanics to improve that Hero vs Hero combat to make it more interesting and fun.

 

[Joccaren]

I personally feel that AoSs aren't really Hero vs Hero maps. They are a mix of defence and Hero vs Hero. Arena's are Hero vs Hero maps. Also, two points to note:
1. Why is having a longer game worse? Sure, you may not always be able to finish a multiplayer game, but when is that any different to any other map? Most maps you play multiplayer you or someone you are playing with will almost always leave before the game ends. The only exceptions I've found to this are Hero Arenas and Minigames.

2. My version of upgrading the towers was to SPECIALISE them. This will have its advantages and its disadvantages. Sure, it will give a slightly longer game but not that much longer. A sniper tower could have 1.25 to 1.5 times the normal tower's range, but have slightly decreased fire rate. This is specialised to long range combat and will help attacking/defending creeps from yoour team further away then normal survive. A 'ranger' tower (The tower in my above post with multishot) may be a bit harder to nerf but, reduced attack speed and range should do most of the work. It is now specialised to taking on large armies, and is more of a close defense tower.

 

[Furby]

Actually, I've got planned and wanted to make towers fully upgradeable, also with ability to put items into them, but I was too (still am) busy with fixing bugs and making all tooltips readable and such.. now I am working on system which will give us more possibilities to map and also for items, such as

• "Makes hero invulnerable against stun for 10 seconds",
• "Increasing damage done by your spells by 50% for 5 seconds",
• "Increasing chance of your critical strike by 35% for 10 seconds",
• "Increasing evasion chance of your hero by 50% for 3 seconds",
• "Decreasing spell damage done to you by 80% for 2 seconds",

or anything like this.

 

[Zack1996]

That's rather interesting. Will those take the form of potions?

Anyway, I personally dislike long games, but I hate games where a hero can get so insanely powerful that it gets unkillable. As far as I know, its impossible to turn the tides in that kinds of situations. Even slightly.

BTW, what are the bugs in the latest version. I think I haven't downloaded it yet (lol).

 

[Furby]

BTW, what are the bugs in the latest version. I think I haven't downloaded it yet (lol).

If I knew of any I'd fix them.

 

[joohen]

The Wolf Hero thingy which has the roar ability, can push away the Neutral Creeps bosses to other place like... the place called (beside your tower)? Is that a bug or..?

Found another bug, i can buy item from the Scourge when i am in the place where there is the Red Dragon neutral creep. Is that a bug?!

 

[Archideas]

@ Joohen, from what I understand the shops have a very long range of selecting heroes, which might be why. I noticed I could attack the enemies main base and buy items from their shop at the same time.

 

[Furby]

The Wolf Hero thingy which has the roar ability, can push away the Neutral Creeps bosses to other place like... the place called (beside your tower)? Is that a bug or..?

Found another bug, i can buy item from the Scourge when i am in the place where there is the Red Dragon neutral creep. Is that a bug?!

Both will be fixed in next version.