Discussion: Effectiveness of Blizzard's modular approach to objects

[Ancanus]

... Or maybe it's just that the learning was more fun.

This.

Also, I am baffled that they added tooltip descriptions to the basic and intuitive fields, and did nothing for the obscure ones.

 

[Advice D.]

Yes. In WC3, you could script this stuff. :thup:
And you didn't need to learn some complicated interface to do it.

... Or maybe it's just that the learning was more fun.

You can still script most of it
I have to agree with you on the fun factor though - Jass had a lot less hunting for fields and was all-around a lot cleaner than most of the Data Editor (The Huge Modifications window is a sore point - I didn't much care for scrolling around boring stats to get to the Hero Attributes in WC3, let alone the ridiculous volume of uncollapsable and incredibly specific fields that will rarely be used as a levelup bonus for a Hero in SC2)

I mean, i tried to do dash to point spell (on the way to a jump spell) using Create Persistent and Apply Force.
The unit is stuck until the Create Persistent's periods end. (it wont stop if the target point is too close)

I based mine off of the Zealot's charge, with a few alterations - Apply Behaviour (+Speed Buff) and Order Unit (Move to Target Point) with a validator to remove the buff when the target is reached or another order is given. Unfortunately, you could still issue move orders without losing the buff, so the buff needed a few flags to prevent any user action during the charge/dash.

 

[13lade619]

with a validator to remove the buff when the target is reached or another order is given.

didnt know that about validators.. i'll try experimenting with them.

 

[tom_mai78101]

Galaxy Editor really is that hard?? Reading all of the posts made me having second thoughts on buying the game for a moment.

 

[Ancanus]

It's not hard in the sense that it is unusable.

It's hard in the sense that you if you want to use a new feature, your thought process better be sync'ed with the developer's. Nothing a few decades of practice and some online tutorials can't fix though.

 

[13lade619]

it's hard 'cause it's new.

give it a while and you'll see people that'll tell you its easy.

 

[celerisk]

... Reading all of the posts ...

Reminded me of this:
[YOUTUBE]rOtEQB-9tvk[/YOUTUBE]

 

[13lade619]

nice one celerisk!

 

[punwisp]

I would say that's a very acceptable guess considering the way they described the Galaxy Editor is like 90% inaccurate. They say it's so easy to make an Uberlisk yet where is it? Only seen it made via XML and that sure as hell isn't easy considering all the functionality is lost.

So considering their new editor is actualy more of a flop then a success, then ide guess that that was blizzard's intent from the start. Make it user friendly for those who actually know what their doing, and make it damn near impossible if you don't know what you're doing.

Flopped? Far from it.

Even if the data editor and trigger editor are complicated, which is a good thing and bad thing, the terraining part isn't, its greatly expanded since wc3, so theres plenty of room for unique melee maps or terrained maps in general.

It didn't flop, we assumed it would be super user friendly like Wc3s. Well, its not, what ya gonna do? Re-learn and move on.

Wc3's editor was a HUGE jump from the starcraft 1 editor, this is pretty much just as big as a jump, and the bigger the jumps, likely the more complicated it may become. Its still lot more user friendly then most editors out there for games. And it will be a while before everyone figures all the kinks out and we have another community full of experts.

And despite the more complicated editor, the biggest good is

1. It will greatly separate shitty maps and good maps, making clones from scratch harder

2. We will see some VERY unique maps, this could be the mass wars, RPGs, defense maps.

So much more is open to us, of course the data is different, its re-designed, we shouldn't have assumed it would be the same style as it was almost a decade ago.

And there gonna add a actual map protector, the complex new editor isn't the protector itself, though it helps vs noobs.


And to sum it all up.

The editor is amazing But its not as simple as Wc3s, it carries a lot more data, and lot of data has been renamed and re-organized, so Wc3 mapper pros may as well be noobs for a while. Terraining is the only familiar field terrainers can easily catch up on.

But really Galaxy will eat those who were super noobs with wc3's editor, even for a good mapper the new style and everything will make your head explode at first. But it doesn't take long to get used to it, takes a bit longer to figure everything out.

Yes its hard, this isn't wc3, but most things that took a lot of time and effort to do in triggers you can do in the data editor, so you have to understand the fact its going to be a bit more complicated, and a new experience.

Now we will all do the following

Mess with its capabilities, trial and error, post our finds, learn, until we get to the point its a piece of cake.

 

[Doomhammer]

I just hope that things ARE going to change until release...

 

[13lade619]

Q: Will the map editor be revised to be more newbie-friendly around release?

A: We have plans to put some new user help files online and additional help text, but overall the editor will not get many more newbie-friendly options as making custom maps is a pretty technical endeavor and there is already a lot of great information appearing all over the web to help with more complex development.

Twitter Q&A

 

[Narks]

Its still lot more user friendly then most editors out there for games.

yes, this is definitely true: even though the editor has gone up in complexity, its still pretty easy to use for the amount of control you get compared to other games

 

[punwisp]

I remember how weird and complex it was just to add water in C&C 3.

Speaking of water, its retarded that when you use the dig tool that water doesnt pop up eventually.

 

[KingTobiazZz]

I remember how weird and complex it was just to add water in C&C 3.

Speaking of water, its retarded that when you use the dig tool that water doesnt pop up eventually.

you mean it is easy to add water in SC2? the only thing I can create are floating squares of lava ^^

 

[krainert]

I remember how weird and complex it was just to add water in C&C 3.

SAGE is a pretty extreme example

you mean it is easy to add water in SC2? the only thing I can create are floating squares of lava ^^

Try raising the ground around it.

After reading a few more tutorials and working with this and that I'm beginning to see at least one advantage of separated weapons: Hero customization. Simply switching to another weapon when picking up a new item rather than having to set endless amounts of properties is probably worth the added complexity. At present, my only complain is that the unit cloning system doesn't set new references correctly which seems to be the reason for most of the struggles - but hopefully Blizz will look into that before launching the editor for good.