Evolution

[Dr.Jack]

Approved by Ghan_04. Please take a minute to read the rules.

What do you think of evolution? Do you think it is real? Why or why not? If evolution is right doesn't it mean that god necessarily doesn't exist? If you don't believe in evolution what is your theory?

As always let's have a fun debate and make sure you read the rules!

 

[Zakyath]

yes, I do believe in it, since it's proved and seems pretty logic. no, it doesn't mean there is no god, only that the bible contains just as much correct fact as pizza though, god may have created evolution. I dunno.

 

[Ninva]

I read once that a certain person couldn't believe in evolution because she found it hard to believe that in the beginning there was nothing; then there was a terrific explosion. She said it's much easier to believe God made everything than an explosion out of the void of space. I found her logic to be very amusing.

I wonder, what nothing is. Nothing isn't matter nor anti-matter. Maybe you should talk about anti-matter in your next debate thread, Jack.

Evolution is easier to believe than intelligent design. It just makes some sense, while a god creating people seems purely fantastic. But the odd thing about Evolution is that there are too many holes of information we're missing. Thus, I don't believe it a bit.

 

[konerboy]

it's pretty hard to understand how things fit so well in the first place.

 

[Ninva]

it's pretty hard to understand how things fit so well in the first place.

My father used to tell me about how God fitted everything in the right place, and that's the evident truth that God existed.

 

[Zakyath]

>I read once that a certain person couldn't believe in evolution because she found it hard to believe that in the beginning there was nothing; then there was a terrific explosion. She said it's much easier to believe God made everything than an explosion out of the void of space. I found her logic to be very amusing.

I believe that nothing can exist. Same thing with an infinity. Just because we aren't capable of understanding it fully, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

 

[DDRtists]

My father used to tell me about how God fitted everything in the right place, and that's the evident truth that God existed.

Wheres the proof in that? Theres none. :thdown:
Theres plenty of proof of evolution, believe thats how things started.

 

[UndeadDragon]

IMO evolution is the most likely cause of all current life.

But I like to think scientifically about things and this seems to be the only plausible idea of life. I am not saying "there is no God though". I am not a believer, or an atheist. The thought of a "greater being" is hard to imagine though.

The advertisment on the london busses sum up my thoughts. ("There's probably no God").

 

[Dr.Jack]

Theres plenty of proof of evolution, believe thats how things started.

As there are many holes. Let me give you an example. Say you got a worm. Just a worm, it can't move, see, hear, feel, it just multiplies every few seconds or so. How a sophisticated system like eyes are created? Now, say it already had an eye, and all was needed to improve its vision, that I can imagine. But how can a system be created from nothing?

Is it possible there is no evolution yet no 'divine power'?

 

[NoxMortus]

How a sophisticated system like eyes are created?

Random mutation spawns light sensitive cells - The 'beginner' eye.

 

[DDRtists]

As there are many holes. Let me give you an example. Say you got a worm. Just a worm, it can't move, see, hear, feel, it just multiplies every few seconds or so. How a sophisticated system like eyes are created? Now, say it already had an eye, and all was needed to improve its vision, that I can imagine. But how can a system be created from nothing?

Is it possible there is no evolution yet no 'divine power'?

The same way the worm itself was created, something else mutates from a cell, into another organism, creating a part usable by said worm.

 

[Varine]

Random mutation spawns light sensitive cells - The 'beginner' eye.

And how does that evolve from a mass of nothingness?

 

[NoxMortus]

And how does that evolve from a mass of nothingness?

What do you mean? The light sensitive cells evolved from the example worm, where's this mass of nothingness?

If you're talking about the Big Bang Theory, that has nothing to do with Evolution.

 

[UndeadDragon]

If you're talking about the Big Bang Theory, that has nothing to do with Evolution.

Isn't that how the theory of evolution began?

 

[Lord_Phoenix]

Do I believe in evolution? Yes I do. It's pretty much proven that things evolve. For example, Earth is still evolving. This is its third atmosphere.

Does Evolution disprove God? No. First of all, what is the probabilty of the big bang actually happening? Second of all, how did we achieve self-conciousness? Even through evolution, the probability of these things happening are somewhat slim, since evolution is the reaction to the environment.

Does Evolution disprove that God created Adam and Eve? Somewhat. It could be possible that God chose two people and gave them a conciousness, or maybe he helped evolve people into conciousness that is symbolized into Adam and Eve. All in all does Evolution disprove God? I believe not.

The Church says that old testament is not scientific or historical truth, but biblical truth. In other words it's open to interpritation.

 

[Darthfett]

And how does that evolve from a mass of nothingness?

What do you mean? The light sensitive cells evolved from the example worm, where's this mass of nothingness?

If you're talking about the Big Bang Theory, that has nothing to do with Evolution.

I think his point is that light sensitivity is complicated. There is boolean flag no "isLightSensitive = false" that can be simply set to true inside the Cell DNA. It's extremely complicated.

Besides, with Darwin's theory of Survival of the Fittest, how would a tiny change in DNA structure that doesn't really help the worm at all really make him survive above all the rest? If it's such an impossibly low chance, and the change is so insignificant, then it's near impossible for this worm-like creature to go from worm without eyes to worm with eyes.

Seems to me that it has to be a huge change in order for it to actually be survival of the fittest, and evolution basically contradicts it saying that it's all done in small changes.

 

[Seb!]

For those who say that things turned out too perfectly for the universe to be made from chance, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Perfection is a human term, and even under this skewed definition the universe is not perfect.

I say that the universe turned out too imperfectly for there to have been a benevolent creator. But I suppose this is off topic.

Besides, with Darwin's theory of Survival of the Fittest, how would a tiny change in DNA structure that doesn't really help the worm at all really make him survive above all the rest? If it's such an impossibly low chance, and the change is so insignificant, then it's near impossible for this worm-like creature to go from worm without eyes to worm with eyes.

It might take a while. Maybe 200 million years. Dozens of millions of generations, and dozens of millions of chances for genetic mutation.

Anyway, survival of the fittest can be proven using logic. Of course those who luckily mutated into an advantageous state would survive. If this was a genetic mutation, then it would logically be passed down.

 

[Darthfett]

It might take a while. Maybe 200 million years. Dozens of millions of generations, and dozens of millions of chances for genetic mutation.

Anyway, survival of the fittest can be proven using logic. Of course those who luckily mutated into an advantageous state would survive. If this was a genetic mutation, then it would logically be passed down.

You completely missed my point. Something complicated would take many different steps to work up to, since evolution takes "millions of years". However, many of the steps do not help the organism, so there's no reason that one organism would be able to survive better than another without the mutation.

Tell me, what is imperfect about the universe besides the humans living in it?

 

[Aqua Dragon]

"You completely missed my point. Something complicated would take many different steps to work up to, since evolution takes "millions of years"

And that is where you are wrong. There's something called "punctuated equilibrium". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punctuated_equilibrium

In summary, it means that sometimes species will undergo very little change over millions of years, but at other times will experience rare bursts of evolution due to sudden mutations or enviormental factors. It's basically another form of gradualism that takes into account the sudden appearance of new structures.

Anyways, I believe in evolution. Appears to be pretty darn logical and makes good sense of Earth's history. Though I also believe in God. A weird combination, but my thought is that God used the very processes he created to make the Earth and all its living creatures. Still trying to figure out the Adam and Eve thing, but i'll think of something eventually I'm sure.

 

[NoxMortus]

Isn't that how the theory of evolution began?

Evolution has NOTHING to do with theories regarding how the universe began.

Evolution is a scientific theory that explains complex and varied life.

Edit~

Besides, with Darwin's theory of Survival of the Fittest, how would a tiny change in DNA structure that doesn't really help the worm at all really make him survive above all the rest? If it's such an impossibly low chance, and the change is so insignificant, then it's near impossible for this worm-like creature to go from worm without eyes to worm with eyes.

Having some light sensitive cells on their own, you're right, probably wouldn't allow an organism to survive above the rest. It would generally survive at the same rate as others of its species. As it reproduces, down the line somewhere there would be another genetic mutation causing the light sensitive cells to form inside a pit, which would allow the organism to see the shadows of predators and where they were approaching from. Can you see the survival benefits it has now?