Technology Apple Executive: "Customers care more about iPhone than working conditions in China."

[Icyculyr]

I don't even get what point you want. Increase the tariffs, no longer cheaper, far more beneficial to the US.

I'm just saying they can still increase the workers wages without the U.S becoming the cheaper alternative.

 

[Slapshot136]

I don't even get what point you want. Increase the tariffs, no longer cheaper, far more beneficial to the US.

(open) trade is beneficial to all countries involved, tariffs are not, the only exceptions are when the trades are for weapons/drugs/humans (forced/trafficking)/etc.

 

[Varine]

(open) trade is beneficial to all countries involved, tariffs are not, the only exceptions are when the trades are for weapons/drugs/humans (forced/trafficking)/etc.

Not when 'trade' means export nothing and import everything. Like we're doing. In the modern world, national independence is extremely easy to do. We can make everything we want here - they never used to be able to do that. With scarcely few exceptions. Which isn't what I'm saying we should do anyway; I'm saying we need to make it more desirable for people to hire locally, rather than outsource. Which would be easy to do by increasing taxes on imports. BUT, doing so would, at least on the short term, deal extensive damage to our market due to the sudden increase in labor costs. But over time that would ease out, and our economy would gradually become stronger.

 

[Slapshot136]

Not when 'trade' means export nothing and import everything. Like we're doing. In the modern world, national independence is extremely easy to do. We can make everything we want here - they never used to be able to do that. With scarcely few exceptions. Which isn't what I'm saying we should do anyway; I'm saying we need to make it more desirable for people to hire locally, rather than outsource. Which would be easy to do by increasing taxes on imports. BUT, doing so would, at least on the short term, deal extensive damage to our market due to the sudden increase in labor costs. But over time that would ease out, and our economy would gradually become stronger.

"because we can make everything" isn't a good reason to do so - it isn't beneficial to do so, it's best to have the U.S. do what it does best, and have china do what it does best, and then trade - basically specialization between nations - and even if the U.S. is worse at everything, it will be better at some things relative to others, and it should focus on those

there is NO reason to encourage anything locally via taxes/tariffs/etc. , people and businesses will figure out what works best where, and that makes it efficient.

now as far as the U.S. not exporting, it does export, just not quite as much as it imports (something like 80%-90% of what it imports), which means that the overall level of debt inside the U.S. is rising - that IS a bad thing, but that needs to be solved by people/government/businesses learning to buy(import) only what they can afford

 

[Varine]

How would it not be beneficial? The only thing the United States is currently succeeding in is fucking up other countries and letting idiots drive our economy into the ground. And our exports are more like 1.5 trillion versus 2.25 trillion in exports (which is more like 60 or 70%, not close to 80 or 90). People and businesses will NOT figure out what works best; they'll figure out what is cheapest. Which does not necessarily help the economy at all. It has NOTHING to do with whether or not anyone can or can't afford anything (which, by the way, again encourages outsourcing as it's CHEAPER, making it more affordable in the short run). By isolating our market, we would build a defense against changes in foreign markets. As it stands, Russia and China could devastate our economy without much loss, as they have it figured out. For however long we continue to import more than we export, this country will never stabilize and our debt will continue to increase. It can't be assumed that, eventually, everyone will just suddenly understand this. It's obvious that the general population doesn't understand this from the market crash. It's obvious the government won't figure it out; each round they just spend more and more money and drives our debt further. And the corporations don't care because they make a hell of a lot more money by outsourcing, because they can. Raising tariffs would equalize the difference in labor and help solve two thirds of the problem with minimal long term effects once it balances out with the sudden inflation.

 

[Accname]

Hard to tell, too many factors.
You cannot generalize things so much, there is far more stuff which plays an important role when we talk about markets and economy.

 

[Slapshot136]

1.5 trillion versus 2.25

I see about 725 billion in exports vs 800 billion in imports per quarter from wolfram-alpha, meaning a 90% ratio

and tariffs are bad for both economies (link) - sure some industries in both countries will suffer, but those would be the inefficient ones that need to go anyways, and they will be replaced by more efficient industries, which generate more goods, and improves the economy

 

[Accname]

[...], but those would be the inefficient ones that need to go anyways, and they will be replaced by more efficient industries, which generate more goods, and improves the economy

By theory.
In theory humans are a very intelligent race and any of us is a genius.

 

[Varine]

None of those are true. Inefficient industries will go on and on for as long as the current system is in place because the country discourages domestic production. Raising tariffs on imports would, as I said, equalize the market. We can subsequently lower corporate income taxes, which should be done anyway, and reduce the insane amount of regulations we have in the manufacturing sector, and in consequence build up the economy here again. It would negatively affect China but that's irrelevant to me as I don't care about China. It wouldn't have a long term negative affect on the US, as trade would continue, it just would be increasingly domestic. We don't NEED to be heavily involved in the foreign market and isolation would be key in getting out of it; especially now with how complex it's grown in the past century. Traditional economics doesn't apply anymore. By having a market here that has the capacity to produce everything locally then exports can overweigh the imports. Even if everyone else raised taxes on our imports it would be inconsequential once our market is primarily held domestically.

 

[Slapshot136]

None of those are true. Inefficient industries will go on and on

they will run out of business if others can sell their product at a lower price - which will happen if tariffs are reduced/removed

why do we want an equalized market where everyone makes everything? let it be unequalized, and everyone will specialize, and everyone will benefit

 

[tom_mai78101]

why do we want an equalized market where everyone makes everything? let it be unequalized, and everyone will specialize, and everyone will benefit

That works for those who are talented and/or gifted in their field. There are people who just couldn't make everything, and will not specialize in an unequalized market. It's just the probability issue.

 

[Slapshot136]

That works for those who are talented and/or gifted in their field. There are people who just couldn't make everything, and will not specialize in an unequalized market. It's just the probability issue.

it works for everyone as long as they aren't identical, in which case there would be no need to trade

 

[The Helper]

For Great Justice!