Biggest map disappointments?

[Sud]

[Recent]
I decided to try out one of those "murder mystery" maps, specifically panda mansion. I went in stoked up in the idea that it was going to be something somewhat thought provoking where players would work together to try and piece together clues as to which one of them was the "killer".

What did I get? A bunch of people running around randomly like beheaded fowl trying to evade a permanently invisible foe that they couldn't do anything to defend themselves against, short of hope they couldn't be found. Oh wow. Fun.

[All Time]
All Stars, also known as "AllNoobs" and "Allstolen" amongst the RoC Dota players. This is worshipped as the pinnacle of Frozen Throne map making? A map with most of its content stolen, all of it bland and uninspired (how many more heroes do you think they can create that have the storm bolt skill?), a glorified hero arena that deceives people into thinking it's an AoS. Teamwork is pretty much optional, and in the end, it's items, not really heroes, that decide the game. And of course, the lovely community behind it. Try to introduce something that actually makes towers valuable to the game? They'll hear nothing of it! Change it back! Creeps that grow stronger (even if it's a 10 hp +2 damage upgrade per tower) make the game unplayable! Omg furion's "backdooring" again, quick clan TDA, ban that guy for furion backdooring, because god knows, furion's summons should always die to 1 aoe spell and all his teleport ability should be good for is free fountain trips.

[Other Pet Peeves]

- God almighty, if I see another bloody PORN MAP. So much more quality content people could be playing, no, they're loading up OMG MAZE OF PORN REMAKE JOIN FAST.

- People who try to capitalize on famous names in TV, books, or other newbie mass media and make a map based on them. Double annoyance if there's actually little or no content from the actual thing they're trying to mimic. OMG PPL WILL LOEV THIS NEW DRAGONE BALL ZEE MAP. UH OH I BETTER GO ON TEHHALPER.NET AND ASK HWO TO CHANGE THE NAME OF FOOTMAN TO GOKU AND HOW TO MAKE HIM SSJ

- "DOTA pros only". There are no dota pros.

- "Frenzy" or "Blood" maps. I've had a special hatred of these things since Starcraft. They arose out of the idea that some people were even too lazy for the skillessness that was Big Game Hunters, so why not just do away with resource collection altogether and get right to the million unit spamfests.

[What I actually do like]

- Anything original that actually shows innovation and hard work placed on it.

- Maps that try to bring other fun experiences into the game, often transforming the game into something totally different. For example, pictionary maps.

- Micro maps, or maps that encourage using skills that can be potentially used in ladder/melee play. Can't go wrong playing a game that actually improves skill.

- Thought provoking stuff, like for example, something that that Panda Mansion was not.

 

[Sargon]

I played a hero arena once in which you could select your abilities, right? Well, one of them was...you guessed it...STORM BOLT! And guess what else? The maker of the map seemed to have left the stun at its max level at 0, or whatever, because it gave a permanent stun. Basically, the duel parts (especially when everyone dropped out until it was a 1 on 1) revolved around who could get the Storm Bolt in.

Also, the game NEVER ENDED. You could not beat it. It sucked.

See, interesting games are neat. That's why Dark Deeds is nifty. And why CoD is (and I'm not just saying this because Sud made the topic, either).

 

[Myzteryz]

Not personal, but people really do bitch too much about DotA.
People like it, thats the whole point of a map..
Its not to f***** care if it was stolen or anything..
Its a popular map, I like it.
Other people have different opinions.. who cares..
I play any kind of maps...

But I totally agree with u about the maze of porn debate..
Murder mistary is freakin boring..

 

[Sargon]

Oh, I forgot: Anything with "LoaP" in it.

 

[Sud]

People like Britney Spears, perhaps we should all emulate her too because she's "successful"

Success != Quality or good

Dogs eat dog food because they have to. We shouldn't have to, but apparently we don't mind eating it too.

And I'm sorry Krak, not trying to attack you personally, but I do have to make a statement that saying "it doesn't matter if it was stolen" is very ignorant and hypocritical coming from someone who's supposed to be a fellow map maker. I'm sure if you worked to make a map, only to have some kid come along and scuttle it apart, then have it achieve popularity above and beyond you, you would be irate. What if it was someone like Conan who had his work torn apart and that bastardized version became popular? A world ablaze SUPER DRAGON BALL Z version now with more trunks!

Makes my skin crawl.

 

[Myzteryz]

oh ye that..
but when Guinisoo stole it, the original mapmaker already stoped updating it and stuff..
But I agree with u at some points..
No personal atks though..

 

[Sargon]

oh ye that..
but when Guinisoo stole it, the original mapmaker already stoped updating it and stuff..

Nonetheless, he stole it.

 

[-fool-]

i never played any dota but allstars, And i think allstars is the best custom game out there. Like it or not, its fun, addictive, got a lot of depth (yep), takes skill (it does), and is very fun to win after a long game. it reminds me of other games that take a long time (1 hour-1 and a half hours) that sway back and forth so one team isnt dominating the whole time, has a lot to it so it doesnt feel like youre doing the same thing over and over all game, and when you win it kicks ass.

i also like how its fast paced. its more of a starcraft map with how fast it is. i think everything in wc3 is too slow, and games that know how to make it fast paced and WORK are awesome games. if the originals were anything like TGS, then they are too slow paced for me.

so, bad maps:
maze of porn (its bad porn too)
any maul (even the original)
kodo tag
skibis td (never liked it)
footman frenzy (i never got over the fact that 12 footman is not a frenzy. 12 footmen is a 4th grade birthday party at chucky cheese.)
island troll tribes (only fun when you have lots of people that know how to play and that doesnt happen)
anything Loap


maps that i think kick ass:
dota
hero line wars
speed tower wars
tb's wilderness survival
peon race
network td
tropical tower wars
tower wars 1.9 - any of those with the 3 teams and the windy maze
x hero seige
enfos

 

[metallic_boy]

mostly stolen, HELL NO!!!

I have played DotA since RoC. I would like to say a few things.

1) Only the outline of the map is copied. But how many different versions of footies are there? i dont hear you mocking new age footies, OR tags, OR hero arenas OR RPGs. There all cliches.

2) Your next rebutal will be that dota heroes are copied, I will refute this before you say so. Maybe the names and looks are the same, but next to no abilities remain the same. Look at soul keeper. He used to have windwalk and critical strike for gods sake!!!

3) According to your theory, new age computers are crap because they just copy old ones. WHO CARES? THEYRE BETTER!!!

People often like to take a swing at DotA cause its so sucessful. Geez man, dont go giving the most sucessful WC3 map a hard time. As a general statement, many mapmakers are jealous of DotA and its sucess, because none of their own maps are ever played...

My suggestion is you try to improve maps man, dont go putting maps down just cause you have a personal grudge against them. I hate art, I dont go mocking peoples artwork because of it though.\

Another Point: You call Krakka ignorant, I think youre being the ignorant one. New age DotA is COMPLETELY different from old dota. Stolen yes. But its been improved so many damn times its not even the same. In the old games there were no recipies, only 2 taverns worth of heroes, no game modes like ap, ar, sc, dm etc, It was way less balanced and most importantly, It wasnt much fun.

I think you would lose the debate 'Dota is a crap wc3 map'. U dont really have a leg to stand on. IM sorry but what your saying is coplete cows crap. No offense, but you sound like a snob.

ANOTHER POINT: You say the maps you like are ones that bring on entirely new aspects, like pictionary maps. WTF is the point of that??? IF U MAKE THE GAME ENTIRLY DIFFERENT ITS NO LONGER THE GAME. WHY DONT U GO ACTUALLY PLAY REAL PICTIONARY WITH YOUR MATES!!! call me old fashioned, but I play computer games to play computer games, not to do something that I could do in real life. Thats like getting the worst of both worlds.

P.S: sorry, but i feel strong discomfort reading this thread, it seems entirely nasty. It does nothing but be mean to other great maps.

 

[Jindo]

DoTa, the hosters are always picky -.-.

Dota, no leavers/laggers/noobs/dl... sucks..

---

Some people start fights over nothing and that is REALLY annoying -.-!

~Jindo

 

[metallic_boy]

Now Jindo I can agree with that, but I dont think the map itself is a failure.

EDIT: Sorry bout making new post, my bad. Was an accident.

 

[Jazradel]

I love DotA. In my opinion it is one of the only custom maps worth playing(the others are Julien's RPG, ToB, EotA, Footy Frenzy and NCCD). Ohh and a new map called B&B. B&B is awesome. Get B&B from www.fulgrim.com.

If your still gonna bitch about it being stolen go play 6.12 and Eul's original DotA. Then compare them and tell me a similarity apart from some names(okay a few heros are the same and items too but...).

Back to the original topic I reckon the biggest dissapointment was World of Warcraft RPG. I'll add more as I think of them.

 

[Sud]

1) Only the outline of the map is copied. But how many different versions of footies are there? i dont hear you mocking new age footies, OR tags, OR hero arenas OR RPGs. There all cliches.

And yet... I distinctly remember myself saying ""Frenzy" or "Blood" maps. I've had a special hatred of these things since Starcraft". I suppose reading the entire post is a lost art.

Hero arenas and RPGs have the potential to be good, under the hands of someone skilled enough to craft them. However, the vast majority of them are quite simply stock warcraft heroes with mostly stock abilities shifted around. Hey, kinda like dota.

Dota does not take skill. There's a reason why ladder players make fun of dota players. The Warcraft hero ability system was based on the idea that you would be using heroes and an army, all the while worrying about your strategy, micro, expanding, and macro. It does not take skill to have a hero with storm bolt, hit the T key, click on hero, and away it goes. It works in the context that its an army vs army. Many of the stock blizzard abilities have been tweaked and retweaked based on the fact that it needs to be balanced around heroes + army, for example the unit caps on blizzard and flamestrike. Dota, at best, is a glorified hero arena with speedbumps (towers) and creeps that go from one end of the map to the other rather than sitting and waiting for you to creep them.

If you want an example of an AoS that requires some skill, you'd be getting warmer if you played ToB. ToB places more emphasis on the war as a whole, and taking down bases, than it does on pure hero killing. The idea in ToB is that you really need to band together to get things done, and unlike dota, ToB offers user towers in addition to its (admittedly bland) item system. ToB has its own gameplay feel that is a tad bit slow (a friend of mine likes to say that ToB is balanced through the mediocrity of each individual hero) but in the context of group vs group (which is what a team game is SUPPOSED to be), it works quite well. ToB is well deserving of its spot in the custom games list, Dota is not.

2) Your next rebutal will be that dota heroes are copied, I will refute this before you say so. Maybe the names and looks are the same, but next to no abilities remain the same. Look at soul keeper. He used to have windwalk and critical strike for gods sake!!!

He's had a long time to tweak heroes around, and put storm bolt on as many as he possibly could, that is certain. Of course, all the abilities he replaced on terrorblade are STILL stock warcraft abilities, save sunder which is a simple 1-3 line trigger.

3) According to your theory, new age computers are crap because they just copy old ones. WHO CARES? THEYRE BETTER!!!

What kind of non-sequitor is this supposed to be? If you're going to try making analogies, why aren't you playing Pac-Man 3D? It is the NEW AGE version of Pac-Man after all. Oh, you say you've evolved past simplistic gameplay like that? Yeah, so have I.

Another Point: You call Krakka ignorant, I think youre being the ignorant one. New age DotA is COMPLETELY different from old dota. Stolen yes. But its been improved so many damn times its not even the same. In the old games there were no recipies, only 2 taverns worth of heroes, no game modes like ap, ar, sc, dm etc, It was way less balanced and most importantly, It wasnt much fun.

I called Krakka ignorant and hypocritical because he, as a map maker, made the statement that it doesn't matter if content was stolen, so long as the ends justify the means (namely him having a map he finds fun). Please note that this is not a personal attack against Krakka, he likely said something dumb a bit hastily and I am just making sure he understands what he said so he can realize that it was inappropriate. At the helper, I and other members have actively tried to dissuade people coming in here trying to find out how to unprotect maps so they can steal/modify them, because we respect other mapper's intellectual rights (even ironically, for Dota). In the real world, this kind of theft is called copyright infringement, unfortunately, there is no protection for mappers short of damaging the map in the hopes that most of the joe averages out there won't be able to open it. Please read the post and understand what's being said before you contribute your two cents.

I think you would lose the debate 'Dota is a crap wc3 map'. U dont really have a leg to stand on. IM sorry but what your saying is coplete cows crap. No offense, but you sound like a snob.

None taken, the logical fallacy of ad hominem always brings me a chuckle.

ANOTHER POINT: You say the maps you like are ones that bring on entirely new aspects, like pictionary maps. WTF is the point of that??? IF U MAKE THE GAME ENTIRLY DIFFERENT ITS NO LONGER THE GAME. WHY DONT U GO ACTUALLY PLAY REAL PICTIONARY WITH YOUR MATES!!! call me old fashioned, but I play computer games to play computer games, not to do something that I could do in real life. Thats like getting the worst of both worlds.

ROFL oh god man. Why do you think poker sites are so popular on the net these days? But you can play poker in real life! Computer games are about the convenience about being able to sit down and play with some random people you don't know. Typically when you play games with people, such as pictionary, you come to be able to anticipate their line of thinking, and their tactics, whereas with random people, you get something new (and this exposure makes you a way better player in whatever genre you're playing) - and yes, this applies even to pictionary.

P.S: sorry, but i feel strong discomfort reading this thread, it seems entirely nasty. It does nothing but be mean to other great maps.

Actually it's quite complimentary to great maps. It's the garbage maps that it's mean towards (thus the topic "Biggest Map Disappointments", or did you not bother to read that as well?)

The people on this forum work their asses off to produce good content (or work toward increasing their skills so that they can at some point produce good content), and people like you only help to keep talent like what we have here down.

 

[SilverHawk]

I anticipate this thread being closed. All DotA debates in the past have been.

 

[Sud]

Let's unhijack the thread then and stick to the original topic

 

[Cres]

Wtf is with you guys and dota, if i didnt know you guys id say you wre jealous

ok enuff about that, in my opinion, here are the maps:

FFF>EotA>SpellCraft>CoD>BattleShips Pro>B&B>ToB>Snipers Remix 1.45>DotA>SC Zone Control (well, debateable, mana sheild really messed things up)>DD6(the host turns on prizes and has some 1000 attack+ item...)>All the other crazy games that i have never played

 

[PB_and_J]

heres a bad one. I was playing a Lotr Helms deep map. the loading screen was Amazing. So I'm thinking after playing all the other Lotr Helms Deep games where heros have blink and do 500 dmg whilst the units do 50 that this one might be good. Turns out the loading screen was the only good thing in the map. There was no such thing as a custom spell. (Since when was King Theodin able to teleport around the world and bring units w/ him? and Aragorn turn invurnamble for 45 seconds?) The heros had like 50 armor and 100 dmg while units atcked very slow and did 10 dmg...another map like this...

 

[Lord_Phoenix]

Sud, I think I love you. I agree with everything you said in post #1 (never to be mentioned again, lest fear the wrath of admins) exept the footies part. Agreed, they don't require that much skill (tech, pray for cheep hero ) but, they're still pretty fun to play. Now if they can get their loading times better....

i never played any dota but allstars, And i think allstars is the best custom game out there. Like it or not, its fun, addictive, got a lot of depth (yep), takes skill (it does), and is very fun to win after a long game. it reminds me of other games that take a long time (1 hour-1 and a half hours) that sway back and forth so one team isnt dominating the whole time, has a lot to it so it doesnt feel like youre doing the same thing over and over all game, and when you win it kicks ass.

i also like how its fast paced. its more of a starcraft map with how fast it is. i think everything in wc3 is too slow, and games that know how to make it fast paced and WORK are awesome games. if the originals were anything like TGS, then they are too slow paced for me.

so, bad maps:
maze of porn (its bad porn too)
any maul (even the original)
kodo tag
skibis td (never liked it)
footman frenzy (i never got over the fact that 12 footman is not a frenzy. 12 footmen is a 4th grade birthday party at chucky cheese.)
island troll tribes (only fun when you have lots of people that know how to play and that doesnt happen)
anything Loap


maps that i think kick ass:
dota
hero line wars
speed tower wars
tb's wilderness survival
peon race
network td
tropical tower wars
tower wars 1.9 - any of those with the 3 teams and the windy maze
x hero seige
enfos

I hate (which is a bold faced lie) to dissect and yell at someone, but here it goes (I'll try not to mention Do7@)

*warning! skip this part about D07@ now!*
The originol DotA was fun (ROC ver.) That was the only good thing about it. Once the Item combos were introduced, it fell down hill (as said in Post #1) A much better game is Enmity Campaign. The guy finally found a way for Items to make a difference, but not enough to make the game incradibly stupid. He also finally got the loading times down to a decent level, as it used to be rediculous. The heros are a bit overpowered, though.
*Your safe now*

now.......
1) when was the last time you played footmen frenzy? a year ago? they fixed that and It's alot better from there.
2)Skibbi (i spell it like that) is a good TD. Its well thought out, innovative, and fun. I see no reason why to criticize it, exept its "official" from Blizzard now.
3)line wars are ok, but they get boring really fast, and are INCREDIBLY repetitive same with hero line wars

Thats about as much criticism as I could see, besides grammatical errors, ect. but I don't want to point thoes out.

-EDIT- Cres, I agree completly about FFF. I don't know why blizz. didn't make that offical, its about the same size as the new skibbis, and then it would be host more often publicly (sory for bad spelling)

 

[DM Cross]

Wtf is with you guys and dota, if i didnt know you guys id say you wre jealous

Cres, wtf is with you and defending dota, if I didn't know you, I'd say you were on their bandwagon.

No, wait. I still say that. You're on quite a few, no?

Biggest let-down: WoW "Reborn". The first map was laggy as shitonastick, and this one just got sucked into patch glitches.

 

[Cres]

Bandwagon, yes i probably am, and Alexander, wtf is with you and picking fights with me, seriously when ever i post in something thats not in WC3 help section, you jump in and start yelling at me. Then again, it probably for some unknown reason...*starts looking at page 42

As for on topic...
I defend dota because no one else does, what fun is it when you flame a map that doesnt defend itself (well you are probably going to say a lot)

Footman Frenzy never exactly picked up my interest, it was more of whoever teched the fastest wins, even level 15 heroes could not stand against the 11/11 attack defense upgrades of crypt fiends and dryads