WIP Brokenoath Arena

Conor

Active Member
Hello :)

This is the first map that I have truly sat down to make, despite quite alot of time fiddling around with World Edit. While I was looking around at various guides and tutorials, and thought it would be a help (for myself mostly really) to track the map progress through to its (hopeful) completion, along with getting ideas/feedback and suggestions from people more experienced with the tool than I am.

The players objective in the map is an FFA hero battle but with some simple dota-style computer players fighting it out aswell.
The initial features I am aiming to bring in are having 2 npc forces battling eachother perpetually throughout the map, providing gold and (some) hazard, while the players hunt each other around the map, with the player who reaches 10 amount of hero kills first being the winner.
Regular shops will have some basic items to aid them in the fight, and there will also be a shop in the 2 main npc bases containing more advanced items.
(updated 13/6/2012 - version dev_11)Map downloadable at http://www.epicwar.com/maps/207469/
Map Features Completed: Map is now fully functional
Supports up to 10 players
Killboard/Deathboard
Default Victory Conditions set to 10 Hero Kills (can be changed to 50)
Hero Picking, both manual and -ar mode, along with -repick
NPC spawns
Map Terrain
NPC Base Layout
8 Custom Heroes Implemented
Neutral Markets
Extra game modes implemented (-teams, -nocreeps)
AI players implemented, and improved

Current Priorities:
Work on better spells for heroes

Wishlist:
Map + Hero + Creep Balance
(Requires playtesting)
Rebalance current market items
Implement Custom items
Doodads/Destructibles outside the main lane

Considering:
Map Hazards
(Random spell effects triggering throughout the map)
Further Hero Choices
 

KaerfNomekop

Swim, fishies. Swim through the veil of steel.
This sounds like an interesting game. One I would definitely like to try out. But having exactly identical heroes doesn't seem to me to be very exciting, as it lacks variety and creativity.

You should first set up all trigger systems you plan to use, as creating them later on will force you to keep changing your existing triggers to adapt to the new systems.

Also, you might want to organise your main post a bit more when you've got enough content.

I shall be tracking this to see where it goes.
 

Conor

Active Member
Thanks for the reply. Creating the hero was alot quicker than I thought it would be, so there will likely be more than one when I do my next session on it. I'll focus on the triggers early on too

Day 2 Recap.
Npc bases completed
Central lane constructed
Spawn triggers activated for both npc forces

Bugs/Issues
Map isnt correctly recognising Player Properties. Player 1 is set to computer and Player 2 to user, but starting the map will default you to the Player 1 spot.
The spawning armies seem unbalanced due to terrain layout

Plan for the next day:
Implement Hero picking + Hero resurrection
Add extra Heroes
 

Conor

Active Member
Day 3 Recap.
Lesson for the day: other peoples triggers look alot prettier than mine!

Player Cap upped to 10
Hero choice upped to 8
Hero respawns implemented
Hero Picks implemented

Resolved issues with Player Properties
Spawning Army balance appears to be corrected now.

Bugs/Issues
Only 6/10 players are spawning into the game
Hero Tavern is not currently online, only valid map mode is -ar

Plan for next day:
Correct issues with Hero Tavern
Work on terrain outside the main lane
(clean up initial forum post)

If SD_Ryoko is reading this, thanks for the guides on triggers, they were fantastically helpful :)

Edit: Why am I still awake, I need to get up for work in 6 hours addendum.
Hero Tavern Functionality enabled, -ar command working, -repick command functioning, manual hero purchase working
Implemented Camera Pans correctly on choice of hero
Resolved issue with all players not spawning

Bug/Issues: Line of sight on the Hero Tavern is not removed on choice of hero - fixing this currently appears to be outside of my skills with triggers, however gameplay effect will hopefully be non-existant with some map layout alterations.
Npc base buildings wiped due to incompetence
Custom Heroes temporarily disabled and replaced with base heroes due to incompetence
Custom Heroes will be re-enabled when design ideas are completed (4.5/8)

Updated plan for next day:
Work on Scoreboard/Victory condition triggers
Replace npc base buildings
Work on terrain outside the main lane
(clean up initial forum post)

 

Conor

Active Member
Day 4:
Scoreboard and Victory conditions now appear to be implemented (unable to confirm without proper mplayer test)
Hero Tavern Relocated, line of sight issue made redundant
Custom Hero design is mostly done, awaiting implementation.

Thoughts:
The killboard in the map used is based off the one provided in the 'Senkins Multiboard' map
(Many thanks to the creator for making this available to the public).
Reading through the killboard triggers, I would not likely be able to have created it myself, but with it pre-created I was able to adjust it to my own needs quickly and easily and even eliminate a few minor bugs with it so it fit it's use in my own map.

Focus for tomorrow:
Work on the map terrain.
Re-implement custom heroes

A playable version looks to be looming into sight, hopefully should be up and online Saturday or Sunday :)
 

Conor

Active Member
Day 5:
Map Terrain Fully Completed
Neutral Buildings implemented
Ancillary NPC spawns established
Custom hero Functionality implemented.
Gold receipt on Creep Kills activated

All of the maps functionalty should now be online :)

Next:
Clean up hero spells and abilities. Tooltips and Icons need to be updated
Retune Hero Abilities - Abilities are functional, but need the numbers adjusted

The Markets are now enabled, with 3 Custom Marketplaces, one in each NPC base and one at the centre of the map. All of the items are pulled directly from existing ones, with no customisation. I'll be looking to implement custom items in future.
There is also 2 regular goblin merchants with their default item stocks
With a small bit of playtesting, it seems that the initial creep spawns are extremely difficult to handle, as they are comparatively strong to a level 1 hero, plus they start almost immediately.

Edit: Added video to initial post
 

Conor

Active Member
Day 6:
Corrected values and tooltips on Heroes + Hero abilities
Creep spawns retuned, will escalate over time instead of starting off all at one time

Map is available for download at http://www.epicwar.com/maps/207141/
(tried uploading on the maps section here, but it wouldnt let me log in to do so)

If anyone does get a chance to play it, please let me know how it plays :)
Hoping to play some games of it tomorrow evening if I can get time after work
 

KaerfNomekop

Swim, fishies. Swim through the veil of steel.
  • No A.I., hence no possibility of a single-player game. At least spawn heroes, please?
  • Creeps flood the map way too easily. You can hardly move without being assaulted and killed.
  • Creep spawn delay is too long.
  • A lot of tooltips need changing. I can't even list them all here.
  • The terrain is very nice, but some parts of it are deceptively inaccessible.
  • Both fountains on the bottom gives a minor advantage to lower NPCs.
  • Multiboard width needs to be larger. The word Deaths doesn't show properly.
  • Always respawning in the same place is just boring and predictable. Once you find someone's spawning location, you can easily wait there to kill them over and over.
  • Hotkeys would be nice. Some abilities do have them, but few have the yellowed letter.
  • Some abilities' effects don't match their tooltips.
  • Unoriginality is the main problem here. A lack of triggered abilities, items and so on.
  • I commend this effort. It's a very good map for 6 or 7 days of work.
 

Conor

Active Member
Hey man, thanks for the reply!
AI: I can get them to spawn at the moment (-ar command only) but they just stand still. Ill work on it tonight and see if I can work something out to get them in the game
Creeps: I'll nerf the wave sizes when I update the map tonight, and cut down the initial delay
Tooltip + Hotkey issues: This was me being a noob, I'll do a batch of these along with the creep update tonight.
Terrain pathing problems: Think I can fix these (tonight)
Multiboard: I'll up the width on the columns tonight
Respawn locations: I'll fix this this tonight/tomorrow
Spells + Items: Most of these(All, in the case of items) werepulled directly from the base game, with changes in name/numbers, I must admit. I'll try and rework the heroes again and add in more customised abilities. I've made up a few newer heroes on paper, and they should be more varied than the ones implemented already - but still somewhat based on pre-existing abilities. I need to get studying on how to make more varied abilities.

What did you think of the respawn timer? Is it fine as is, or should it be tied to character levels?
 

KaerfNomekop

Swim, fishies. Swim through the veil of steel.
AI: Just periodically issue Attack-Move commands around the map. They don't need to cast spells, just provide some other targets to hit.
Respawn locations: Again, random locations across the map will do fine. Also recommended that you pan the camera towards the respawn location (maybe with a check that the player hasn't selected any units, so as not to disrupt observation of enemies).
Spells: There are some nice ideas in the Spell Ideas Thread, stickied on the main forum.
Respawn timer: It's fine this way. Not too fast nor too slow.
 

Conor

Active Member
Should be able to get the AI working on that level alright (I think)
Respawn Locations: The respawning and panning itself shouldnt be an issue (I can just use an edited version of the trigger that spawns you initially, and add in extra spawn locations around the map), but I'm not currently aware of how to stop this if a unit is selected, will need to look through the trigger options to find out how.

For spell ideas, implementing them is as much the issue for me at the moment, I can only take the base spells and edit them through the editor itself - I am assuming that doing it through JASS gives alot more flexibility, so im going to try and pick that up during the week
 

KaerfNomekop

Swim, fishies. Swim through the veil of steel.
Trigger:
  • Set TempUnitGroup = (Units currently selected by (Triggering player))
    • If (All Conditions are True) then do (Then Actions) else do (Else Actions)
      • If - Conditions
        • (TempUnitGroup is empty) Equal to True
      • Then - Actions
        • Game - Display to (All players) the text: You have not selected any units.
      • Else - Actions
    • Custom script: call DestroyGroup(udg_TempUnitGroup)


JASS is not a requirement for good triggered spells, but it helps. So does knowledge of Damage Detection and Hashtables.
 

Conor

Active Member
Thanks for those, I'll have an updated version tonight tuning the creeps, adding AI etc... and then work on the spells. I'll concentrate my efforts on a single hero first, as a test case for adding the newer spells and see what I can come up with
 

Conor

Active Member
Uploaded new version: http://www.epicwar.com/maps/207235/
Creep spawns have been retuned. The initial delay is cut down, but the wave sizes have been reduced.
AI players have been implemented. They will spawn and (mostly) move around the map attacking enemies, and using their basic abilities.
Hero spawn locations have been expanded, now up to 10, will expand this further in the next build.
Multiboard display issue should be fixed now.
The hero pathing issue should be fixed now, or reduced at least. Can revisit if needed though.

Didnt have time for fixing the hotkeys tonight but I will do it tomorrow
Im also going to (hopefully) improve the computer AI abit. At the moment there is a chance they can stand around doing nothing - I know the cause of this.
Im also hoping to add in trigger packages that get them to learn (and hopefully use) their spells

Edit:Small update, the AI heroes currently cant actually win the match it seems, this should be corrected tonight + the actual win trigger is abit... abrupt
 

Conor

Active Member
New version uploaded: http://www.epicwar.com/maps/207303/
All of the Hotkey issues should be resolved, with the keyboard shortcut displayed.
Doubled number of hero respawn locations (start locations are still fixed though)
AI Improved, should get stuck less now, and they should start using their abilities properly.
Fooled around with hastables and spells, but havent got anything play ready yet.
AI players can now win the map. When someone wins, the game is paused and the winner declared.

Potential issues:
If multiple heroes respawn at the same time, they seem to cluster on the same spawn point (unconfirmed)
Need to work on AI triggers a little more (I think) to allow them to level up their spells and stop them from getting stuck. Hoping to fix both of these in next version
 

Conor

Active Member
New version uploaded: http://www.epicwar.com/maps/207377/
AI stepped up again, it will now level up spells correctly, and path around the map for the most part.
(Bug: On initial spawning, the blue and grey AI players do not actually move initially)

Worked on some triggered spells. Theres a new custom hero called Polarity with some of these spells (this is just a test hero + spells, not intended for actual use)
The spell Theoretical for the marine has had a small trigger added to increase the heroes strength
 

Conor

Active Member
New version uploaded: http://www.epicwar.com/maps/207469/
AI should now be fully working except for 1 issue when the 2nd player is set as computer.
Worked on some new spells but havent made too much progress since the last version.

I'll be taking a short break from the map for a few days, next version will be on sunday/monday
 

Conor

Active Member
Have worked some more on the map, but made little progress beyond what is already there unfortunately. It's currently quite functional, but lacks real customisation for character spells.

I have worked quite abit on these, but havent managed to get my head around making good spells quite yet - the ones I have come up with arent really that interesting, or just flat out dont work. I should have a new version on friday thats functional with the basic spells, and i'll put in another crunch on customised spells this weekend and hopefully come up with a few.

If I get burned out on the spells, I have a mini backup single-player project that I will work on to keep me going
 

Conor

Active Member
Also, if any spell desingers/makers would like to make a contribution, I'd be delighted to accept it. PM me if you're interested. Anything from single spells to entire sets are welcome
 
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