World China online stores offering cat and dog skin products

[Hatebreeder]

I just don't understand you, FireCat

The animal world is "cruel", because it has to be "cruel".

As stated by many others, we're all animals. Pets are not an exception.
I can imagine you yourself have pets.
The only thing that severs pets from animals is the bond you have with that animal; thus, it's not an animal anymore. It's an object. Taking the life of a pet is the same thing as wrecking an object of another person.

The reason why we don't kill each other is reason.
"What gives me the power that allows/enables me to judge over someone else?". Animals can't judge.
They will take whatever they need to survive. Or have you ever seen an animal kill for fun? I know humans have. That is why we have reason.

Killing Cats and Dogs for survival is a reason. Sure, you may kill humans for survival. But there are 2 things that will be in your way of doing so:
- We are not cannibalistic
- We depend of each other to secure our survival

By threatening the safety of the commune, the commune responds with punishment, to maintain itself.

Thats all there is to it, actually.

 

[JerseyFoo]

The reason why we don't kill each other is reason.
"What gives me the power that allows/enables me to judge over someone else?". Animals can't judge.

Where'd you pull that one out of? We don't kill each other because it's an inconvenience. The potential benefits don't outweigh the potential costs.

Animals kill other animals out of necessity. Survival and security, just like why a crook kills an innocent person; perceived survival and fear. Survival triumphs over most costs.

Have you completely forgotten about war? Very 'reasonable' people kill people all the time.

We depend of each other to secure our survival

Please. The 'commune' is a summary of human behavior, you've got it backwards.

 

[Sevion]

@Sevion, would you wear a jacket made from human leather? Like you said we are just animals. Are you gunna get mad at me for using another 'animal' to keep myself warm with a leather jacket? I'd just be trying to survive the weather.

Why would I? I already have a nice warm winter coat. If I had to... If it was a choice between life and death... I would wear it. But I wouldn't wear it a lot. It would feel weird.

In response to the 'whats the difference' nonsense; Cows have thick hides, foxes/etc have desirable fur. Skinning humans serves no purpose other than a fetish.

I don't think you understand the questions posed about the differences at all...

Let chinese be chinese, I like the reminder that they have quite a long way to go before becoming any sort of equal with the USA.

You're kidding right? Please tell me you're not that ignorant about China and the United States...

I agree with Hatebreeder. It's a dog-eat-dog world. Or in this case, man-eat-dog world (pun...!). Many times you must kill or be killed.

Where'd you pull that one out of? We don't kill each other because it's an inconvenience. The potential benefits don't outweigh the potential costs.

Animals kill other animals out of necessity. Survival and security, just like why a crook kills an innocent person; perceived survival and fear. Survival triumphs over most costs.

Have you completely forgotten about war? Very 'reasonable' people kill people all the time.


Please. The 'commune' is a summary of human behavior, you've got it backwards.

Actually, we do kill each other because its an inconvenience. What do you think War is all about?

"The potential benefits don't outweigh the potential costs."

Hell yes they do... I only have one word that can completely destroy that statement. Hitler. That one word should tell you all that it needs to.

"just like why a crook kills an innocent person; perceived survival and fear."

Okay, what? There are many different reasons "crooks" kill "innocent" people... Don't stereotype everyone like that.

 

[Hatebreeder]

Where'd you pull that one out of? We don't kill each other because it's an inconvenience. The potential benefits don't outweigh the potential costs.

Animals kill other animals out of necessity. Survival and security, just like why a crook kills an innocent person; perceived survival and fear. Survival triumphs over most costs.

Have you completely forgotten about war? Very 'reasonable' people kill people all the time.


Please. The 'commune' is a summary of human behavior, you've got it backwards.

You didn't read everything, right?
I'l break it down for you:

• A human kills another human
  • The "Commune" is endangered
    • The "Commune" reacts and punishes the individual
      • Survival of the "Commune" is maintained

I forgot to mention fear. Other than that, I don't see why I got it all wrong
Use "Group" or "society" instead of "Commune", though it should be the same thing, just different sizes.
However, war is a different matter and IMO goes way too deep as that I can generally say how it works and what humans do in a situation like that. And I don't get why you're pointing out something I mentioned

 

[Jedimindtrixxx]

Or have you ever seen an animal kill for fun?

[youtube]P3BfL7X1uU8[/youtube]

mongeese more often then not attack snakes because fuck snakes. they dont even usually eat the remains they just kill them.

Skinning humans serves no purpose other than a fetish.

uh huh... thats where YOU would draw the line on what can be used for hides, and firecat draws it on dogs and cats. what makes your opinion better than his?

 

[Hatebreeder]

mongeese more often then not attack snakes because fuck snakes. they dont even usually eat the remains they just kill them.

Oh cmon =/
I generalized my point... So, it's pretty obvious that it's not 100% correct =P

 

[JerseyFoo]

I don't think you understand the questions posed about the differences at all...

If you philosophically dwell in the realm of morals and unicorns of course you're not going to understand...

Actually, we do kill each other because its an inconvenience. What do you think War is all about?

Soldiers are given benefits such as payment as well as perceived benefits such as serving their country. As well as not going to jail or being perceived as weak or a coward.

Regardless for whatever reason they join the military in the first place, the benefits do outweigh the costs otherwise they would not kill. Perhaps it would help to think of it in terms of 'cost of NOT killing'.

Hell yes they do... I only have one word that can completely destroy that statement. Hitler. That one word should tell you all that it needs to.

Maybe in your land of unicorns... Hitler greatly affected his followers perception of benefits and costs.

Okay, what? There are many different reasons "crooks" kill "innocent" people... Don't stereotype everyone like that.

You forgot to quote "kill".

I forgot to mention fear. Other than that, I don't see why I got it all wrong

You said humans are dependent on the 'commune'. I said the 'commune' is dependent on humans. Your theory also does not apply to all situations and has inconsistencies such as "We are not cannibalistic".

It's a logical flaw to say the derivative derives the source, or the commune makes the human. Maybe it's a chicken-egg question...

uh huh... thats where YOU would draw the line on what can be used for hides, and firecat draws it on dogs and cats. what makes your opinion better than his?

I didn't say what 'can' be used for hides, I said what is good for hides. Heard of economics?

Doing things with no purpose, such as skinning humans (fetish excluded) to make leather seats when you could much more easily use cows... perhaps thats evil.

 

[Hatebreeder]

How're you supposed to make a 100% accurate explanation on why animals != humans? There are so many factors that play a role.

My intention was to show FireCat, that humans are animals, but since they live with each other and are not vagabond, we have to rely on reason to justify our actions. I also was trying to show him the difference between pets and animals.

If you're not satisfied with my interpretation, then back up your assumptions with substance. All I read is "thats not right, you're getting it wrong".

Besides, speaking of right and wrong; if it's not against the law, then it's against/for what the person believes is correct/false. In my explanation, I didn't question FireCat's beliefs. I tried to explain the whole matter to him with things that may not be so obvious.

Thats my two cents.

 

[Sevion]

What's with this "land of unicorns" talk?

"Hell yes they do... I only have one word that can completely destroy that statement. Hitler. That one word should tell you all that it needs to."

Is referring to World War II and stopping the massacre of non-Aryans...

The cost of stopping Hitler (and his allies) were greatly outweighed by the end benefits...

Seriously, I just feel like you're one of those people who made an idiotic post and realized it. And after realizing it, begin to zealously defend yourself with no basis whatsoever.

 

[esb]

It's Nature to kill. Not human nature, not animal nature, simply nature for every living organism to kill (or consume) others. Sometimes for a reason, sometimes for no reason. Animals usually do it for a reason (survival).
We do it for survival, luxury, and no reason. Simply because our brains are more developed than theirs. (Or so we think) We have, as a society, suppressed that natural instinct to kill, and made killing punishible and 'morally' wrong.

Morally... wth is that word anyway?

EDIT: Holy snap! What does Hitler have to do with this? Hahaha. Damn Godwin's law...

 

[Sevion]

How can we begin to describe "morally right"?

 

[esb]

Exactly my point. A definition for it would be so vague and anything specific upon it would be disagreed by many.

Which is all this is about. Whether skinning cats and dogs (and other animals) right or wrong. Good or bad. Cruel or not. Necessary or Unnecessary.
You get my point.

 

[Bartuc08]

lol, now this is a true internet debate, Hitler was brought in.

A lot of people think that humans are also the only creatures that engage in wars, this is actually not true at all. There are packs of wild dogs that form packs, with a leader and everything, when the feel that there territory or resources are threatened they will fight the threatening force, one pack against another. The only difference is the method and the size. There is still competition over resources and territory.

As far as wearing human skins go, that's a rather ridiculous argument, I believe you meant it to be (I hope). We wear other animals because our own skin can't protect us from the environment, so why would we want to wear human skin? As far as cannibalism goes I'm not sure how it works for other animals, but when a human eats human meat they begin to get sick and they will go crazy.

Nature is about benefits and survival. Sometimes you may not need to kill another man simply for survival, but his death may benefit you. Even creatures that fight over selective mates, they may not need the prettiest mate to survive, but they feel that there is a benefit to be gained from it.

So to reiterate what I've been saying, we are no more special then the animals we kill. Anything humans do can most likely be found within the animal kingdom. Homosexuality has been found in certain species of goats ad dolphins, so how is it unnatural for us?

This topic was heavily de-railed, but I feel like a lot of y'all have been rather mature. If a mod wishes to beak this into the debate section I'm sure it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[JerseyFoo]

What's with this "land of unicorns" talk?

"Hell yes they do... I only have one word that can completely destroy that statement. Hitler. That one word should tell you all that it needs to."

Is referring to World War II and stopping the massacre of non-Aryans...

The cost of stopping Hitler (and his allies) were greatly outweighed by the end benefits...

Seriously, I just feel like you're one of those people who made an idiotic post and realized it. And after realizing it, begin to zealously defend yourself with no basis whatsoever.

The "land of [morals and] unicorns" talk is referring to your persistence of including morals in a debate.

You need to learn context, impossible to have a debate with you otherwise.

CONTEXT
–noun
1.
the parts of a written or spoken statement that precede or follow a specific word or passage, usually influencing its meaning or effect: You have misinterpreted my remark because you took it out of context.
2.
the set of circumstances or facts that surround a particular event, situation, etc.

Most debates assume a common real-world context(definition 2) to prevent arguments like "what if we live in the matrix". For my arguments on human behavior; the context of a individual human's reality was used, a micro-perspective on a macro-environment, ie. 'typical'. This voids your 'cost of stopping Hitler' remark as you are speaking in a context of humanity in general. Additionally your speaking in historical terms(how it worked out), while I'm speaking in real-time terms(how it could/does work out).

Sorry if this seems cryptic; bad migraine.

This entire post serves to counter your...

The cost of stopping Hitler (and his allies) were greatly outweighed by the end benefits...

...remark, as this is the thoroughness required to debate with someone without context (usually a troll), and thats all I'll do for you.

 

[Sevion]

What's with this "land of unicorns" talk?

Is referring to:

Maybe in your land of unicorns...

Which voids that post...

...remark, as this is the thoroughness required to debate with someone without context (usually a troll), and thats all I'll do for you.

Are you inferring that I'm trolling.

 

[FireCat]

FireCat, answer me one thing. How is a cat different from a cow?

Well

Spoiler

You see it's a cat!

Spoiler

And that's a cow

That explains It all.


Btw: "I still do not agree with some of yours points"
Well, another day. hehehe

 

[Bartuc08]

Not gonna lie... they both look rather delicious!

 

[Miz]

For me personally when I am eating something like an Alligator, a Dog, a cat or a Lobster, I would like to know its name first before eating it.

Me: "Waiter, what was the name of this Cat I am eating."
Waiter: "Mittens"
Me: "Well Mittens you are looking quite delicious today. Who's a good delicious cat when fried in oil. You are! You are!"

Not gonna lie... they both look rather delicious!

 

[Hatebreeder]

Not gonna lie... they both look rather delicious!

Ok, so I want fried cat ears, left ones, I don't like the right ones and uuhhhh.... Some roasted cat entrails with salvia sauce along with a cat-liver soft-drink.

I think that'd be all.

Oh, and don't you forget the dried cat testicles ! My daughter loves those toys.

...

Thats how the fast food restaurants roll :3 In China, at least =P
You just need to get used to the taste, other than that, it's just like Micky D's :3

 

[Bartuc08]

Ok, so I want fried cat ears, left ones, I don't like the right ones and uuhhhh.... Some roasted cat entrails with salvia sauce along with a cat-liver soft-drink.

I think that'd be all.

Oh, and don't you forget the dried cat testicles ! My daughter loves those toys.

...

Thats how the fast food restaurants roll :3 In China, at least =P
You just need to get used to the taste, other than that, it's just like Micky D's :3

Whoa! Can I get that cat-liver drink in diet? Trying to watch my figure!