Choosing a Computer

[AgentPaper]

Welp, it's getting to be new computer time again. As always, while I spend half my life on my computer, I don't actually know that much about how to build/choose a good one, so I turn to you for help. What I need:

- Must be portable, since I have to move it between home and work each day, but it doesn't need to be especially small or slim. I'm fine carrying around a ten pound, 17" behemoth, though I doubt that's really necessary either.

- Must have an effective cooling system. I've had a lot of trouble with overheating with my past two laptops, so this is a must. It needs to be able to handle being on all day long (16 hours) in potentially 80-90 degree Fahrenheit weather, without having problems overheating. Liquid cooling would be ideal, if it's reliable enough and $200 or less. Otherwise, a more standard but well-built fan should be fine.

- It should be designed with the future in mind, since ideally it would last for at least the next 3-4 years, without much issue. It should be able to handle modern games of course, and if anything be slightly over-built so it won't become obsolete in a year. I'd rather spend twice as much on a good computer now, than have to buy a new computer twice as often. With that in mind, it should also be reliable for the long run.

- For price range, I'm aiming for $2000, but could go as high as $3000 for the right specs. I know the basics of ram, memory, and graphics cards, but not which are the best or how much of each I really need.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Slapshot136]

im slightly confused, do you want a laptop or a desktop?

 

[AgentPaper]

Probably a laptop, but an especially compact/easily transportable desktop would also fit the bill. I don't need to travel with it or even use it on battery power, I simply need to be able to lug it back and forth between home and work each day. (a short car ride)


I guess when it comes down to it, what I really need to know is what kind of RAM, Memory, graphics cards, and so on are needed these days. I can figure out the rest of it on my own. More than anything, I'd like to know where the break-point is: Where the technology starts to skyrocket in price without much gains in power.

 

[Slapshot136]

there aren't any watercooled laptops that I know of, but regardless of which computer you get, I would suggest you get a cooling pad for it - laptops aren't built to run 16 hours in a row

most of the nice well-built business laptops don't play games very well, but at a minimum you would want one with a dedicated graphics card

you might be better off with a desktop for the games at home (unless you game at work, in which case disregard this) and then a well-built business laptop (I would recommend either a think pad or Dell's business line), as those last longer then the consumer grade stuff

 

[AgentPaper]

What kind of cooling pad would you recommend? I've used fan-based ones before, and they honestly don't seem to do that much good. Ideally I'd be able to use some kind of water-cooled pad, which seems like a fairly easy thing to make, but I've never been able to find one.

I may end up going with a desktop, I suppose what it really boils down to is price. If a desktop would be significantly cheaper, then I wouldn't mind getting one of those, and possibly having to buy a new laptop for work later on. Is ASUS my best bet for desktops too?

With that in mind, what I really need help with is benchmarks for computing power. What kind of RAM, Memory, and Graphics card would I need to run modern games without issue? What kind might I need for games coming out in the next few years? All the computers I've looked at have had various numbers thrown around, but without context I can't really tell whether something is worth the money or not.

 

[Ghan]

Would you be able to build your own desktop? That would really be the best and most cost-effective option if you want something to last a few years.

As for a laptop, this one seems like a good option right now: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834230141
Personally, I've never used a cooling pad for a laptop. I have an older Asus gaming laptop and it has never had heat issues. Yeah, it puts out a lot of heat when playing, but as long as the vent is clear, it's fine. That laptop there should be able to play games for a few years to come. It likely will not be able to max out the settings on really intense games, but they'll play.

 

[AgentPaper]

If I do decide to go with a desktop, yes I could probably put it together myself, with instruction.

After thinking on it some, I think getting a high-end desktop is my best bet. The biggest reason I wanted a good laptop to have at home and work, is that the internet at my office is a lot better than the internet at my house, so I'd actually do a lot of gaming here rather than there (after hours, of course). We're about to get a new type of internet installed that should fix this issue, though, so having a desktop at home just for gaming should work out just fine.

I see you have a list of parts for computers in a sticky, but I assume that's out of date since it's from 2010. Would you be willing to help me put together a more current version of one of those, and guide me through the process of putting it together? Or, if there's a good tutorial out there for putting computers together, that should work fine as well.

 

[Slapshot136]

a $1000 desktop will be much better then a $3000 laptop for gaming, there just isn't any real comparison for them - the cooling pad is mostly just to raise it off of the table and make it easier to suck air in from underneath

as for putting a desktop together, it's not that hard, you just need to put a few screws in to hold stuff and the wires pretty much fit exactly where they need to go and nowhere else

for more current parts perhaps something like this as a start

 

[AgentPaper]

The difference is that much? I thought the disparity between laptops and desktops was getting smaller, not larger. If that's really the case, then I'll definitely go for a desktop.

Going by the scale used in the "Computer Building Suggestions" thread, I think I want something just past the "point of reason". Basically, I'm willing to spend a lot of money on a really good computer, but don't want to throw money away either. What would that equate to in today's hardware?

 

[Ghan]

Here are my recommendations:

Motherboard: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157293
CPU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116504
Memory: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231489
Case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129066
PSU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139031
SSD: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227791
HDD: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148697
Video Card: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130782
Optical Drive: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827135204

The ones I would definitely buy would be the CPU, SSD, and video card. The others could be switched out for comparable parts from the same or a similar quality vendor. Grand total before tax/shipping is $1,178.92.

 

[AgentPaper]

Looks good as far as I know. Just for comparison, how much would a pre-built computer of comparable specs cost? (An guesstimate is fine)

 

[Ghan]

If you are really interested in getting the absolute best stuff, change to these:

CPU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116501
Video Card: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130769

You could also get a larger SSD (same version - a Vertex 4).

A similar configuration from CyberPowerPC looks to be over $1500.

 

[AgentPaper]

Thanks. If you don't mind, could I get a very brief description of what each of those does, in case I want to upgrade? For example, which of those determines how much memory I have? My current computer has ~500GB of memory, and I think I'd like a bit more than that.

 

[Slapshot136]

Looks good as far as I know. Just for comparison, how much would a pre-built computer of comparable specs cost? (An guesstimate is fine)

roughly 30-50% more - as soon as "gaming" enters the equation, the manufactures smell $$ and charge for it, and like to horribly under-power the graphics card

same thing for laptops vs desktops - in terms of ram and processing power, even disk speed with a SSD in them, they are getting closer to desktops, but the graphic cards in a laptop are nowhere near that of a desktop (they use way too much power and make way too much heat for a laptop)

details:
CPU - does the processing, runs everything, but usually only compressing/extracting/editing photos or video will max out the CPU

Memory (Ram) - where your "active programs" live - aka windows, and whatever you have running (background processes as well) - games and windows usually don't use more then 4gb, but this is relatively cheap and easy to upgrade

Hard disk (what you referred to as memory) - where stuff gets stored "permanently" as oppose to the ram, this won't go away when the power is turned off - this is also easy to upgrade, you can just add an extra hard drive (most computer can support 4-6 hard drives)

Case - holds everything together physically, also cools them and has fans/etc.

Motherboard - everything plugs into the motherboard in some way or another, a more expensive motherboard will have more expansion slots, hard drive ports, etc.

Video card - puts video on the screen, this is what matters most for gaming, video cards with large amounts of ram are needed for large (high-resolution) displays

PSU - provides power to everything, it's important not to cheap out on this since the components can get damaged from bad voltages

Optical drive - reads (and writes) disks (CD/DVD/possibly blu-ray), you may not need this since windows can be installed off of a flash drive

also add a windows license to the list

 

[AgentPaper]

Right. If it was only a bit more, I might go for it just to save the hassle and risk of me botching it, but $500 isn't worth it.'

Hm, I was going to say I don't need a CD drive since I don't really buy disc games anymore, but it's only $19? That's crazy! I guess I may as well get it just in case, heh.

For those two upgrades you mentioned, how much of an upgrade are they? As in, are they 10% more powerful? 50%? Just want an idea of how much bang for my buck I'm getting.

Oh and finally, are these components all tested together, so they won't cause any conflicts?

Thanks again for all of your guys' help. You've probably saved me as much as $2000 and a lot of headaches.

 

[Ghan]

You probably don't want to upgrade the motherboard unless it goes bad for some reason. By the time you actually need to upgrade it, just build a new machine.
The CPU is one of the best out there for that socket type. I mentioned an upgrade in my other post, which is one of the fastest desktop CPUs in existence today. It should be able to trash anything you throw at it for the next 3-5 years or more. It's unlikely that there will be major improvements to that kind of CPU socket before the next generation is released.

I forgot to add RAM to the build at first - it's there now. 16 GB of RAM is plenty for everything you need to do, and you can upgrade to 32 GB if you want - just buy another of those 16 GB packages.

The SSD is rated the fastest in the consumer market right now. OCZ has been tearing it up in terms of performance, though their previous gen had some reliability issues. However, I've heard nothing terrible about the Vertex 4. I put one in a computer I built recently and it has been great.

The GTX 670 video card is probably the best high end card in the market for its dollar value. The 680 and 690 are better, along with the AMD 7950/7970 or so, but the 670 has been impressing everyone with its $400 price point.

HDD, not much to see here. 1 TB = 1000 GB, so that should be plenty of file storage for you. Seagate is a good brand.

650W PSU is enough to power two GTX 670 cards if you wanted to SLI them together either now or later. The motherboard will support it as well. Corsair is a good PSU brand.

The case is kind of bland. You could look at the Antec 900 or Antec 1200 as well as some CoolerMaster options if you want more case variety. I'm not a big case fanatic.

Optical drive is blah. CD/DVD are going out fairly quickly as everything moves to digital. This one is a burner in case you need to create disks. Other than that, nothing fancy.

 

[Slapshot136]

Oh and finally, are these components all tested together, so they won't cause any conflicts?

the specs are pretty standard, all of these will work together

ram and hard drive are easy to upgrade, you just add more, and take out the old one if you need more room, you could also add a blu-ray reader (or even burner) if you wanted one, but that can wait until you need it (there aren't many programs for playing blu-rays yet)

the other components won't give you much benefit from upgrades, as the CPU and motherboard go together, and once you replace them your looking at a new computer already anyways

I prefer cases without windows, so I like silverstone and lian-li cases, but that is more of a personal preference type thing, there aren't HUGE differences between cases.. potentially water-cooling, but it's not that big of an improvement over air unless you take it to extremes (like hooking it up to your fridge)

 

[AgentPaper]

Ok, I've got a basic understanding of what most of that does, but what is the SSD for? I know RAM is short term and HDD is long term, is an SSD somewhere in between, or does it do something else? What kind of task would put strain on a SSD?


Oh, and while I've got expert advice, another thing that has caused me issues is finding a good pair of reliable, sturdy, and relatively cheap headphones. I don't need super audio quality, just something that won't break a month after buying it if I pack it in my computer case. I've had good luck with my current pair, but I've already had to tape up part of it to hold together, so I don't know how much longer it'll last. Preferably something with a mic on it.

 

[Ghan]

SSD = Solid State Drive
It performs the same functionality as a hard drive (HDD) in that it provides long-term storage. However, it is orders of magnitude faster than a traditional hard drive because the data is all stored on NAND flash memory. SSDs are generally smaller in size than HDDs and cost more per GB, but they are well worth the cost for gaming machines to decrease boot times on the OS and applications. When you install the OS and a few programs on the SSD, you should notice much faster response times. This leaves the HDD as a data storage device for things like music files and less-used programs.

 

[AgentPaper]

SSD = Solid State Drive
It performs the same functionality as a hard drive (HDD) in that it provides long-term storage. However, it is orders of magnitude faster than a traditional hard drive because the data is all stored on NAND flash memory. SSDs are generally smaller in size than HDDs and cost more per GB, but they are well worth the cost for gaming machines to decrease boot times on the OS and applications. When you install the OS and a few programs on the SSD, you should notice much faster response times. This leaves the HDD as a data storage device for things like music files and less-used programs.

Ah, I see. I think I have an idea of what I want to get, I'll have a list in a bit...

Once I've bought all this stuff, what do I do then? Is there a guide on how to put this together, or is it really easy enough that I can figure it out myself? (IE: Plug stuff in where it fits)

I assume I'll need to buy and instal an OS separately? I'll be using Windows 7, will this support 64 bit or am I better off with 32 bit?