AoS Competitive eSport map - I present: "Tubs" !

Ommi

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Tubs

The Ultimate Blood Sport



This is currently only a very raw idea of a map I'm designing, however I would like to lay it all out here for constructive criticism and to "get my idea down on paper", things generally happen faster that way and are not lost in a flow of thoughts.


The idea:

- Tubs will be a fun, challenging and balanced AoS style map
- Have interesting yet simple gameplay features aside from the normal "hurr hurr down the lane I go"
- A great synergy between abilities, heroes and items
- Create a community around the map, this means a website, forums and other services
- Host tournaments with winning prices, host seasonal tournaments
- Heavy advertisement to get the map known

- I realize that competing against Dota at this point in warcraft is near impossible, and that warcraft 3 is slowly dying
- Due to this warcraft 3 is not going to be the main platform of this map, the warcraft 3 version of it will serve as the following:

*Gaining valuable experience working with the world editors GUI and JASS
*Gaining reputation for the map, as well as having a base community followers
* A learning curve for balancing and managing a competitive map as well as tournaments

The main platform of Tubs will be StarCraft 2, where the map will be completely remade, new heroes will become available and old ones lost, the playstyle of the map and main focuses will however remain, and with a headstart from warcraft 3 the map should gain popularity in starcraft over time and become one of the number 1 competitive gaming maps available

YES I DO HAVE HIGH AMBITIONS and will most probably crash and burn :shades::thup:



Work in progress:

Domain + forums operational: 0%
Terrain: 0% (sketches made)
Gameplay features implemented: 0
Gameplay triggers finished: 0
Heroes finished: 0/20

Gameplay feature ideas down on paper: 3
Hero ideas down on paper: 5/20

2x thanks to IronTrout

Currently working on:

Setting up a domain and forums
Hero ideas and concepts

Next objective:

Recruit 2 - 4 people
Make all heroes and spells

Alpha test heroes and spells during the making of terrain / gameplay

The hero system:

Tubs will have many different and unique heroes in its arsenal

The three archetypes are:

Tank
Nuke
Support

we will then have several different sub types, for example a hero that is a tank can be a:

Disabler
Farmer
stuner
flee'er

While a hero that is nuke could have some of the same sub types as a tank but serves a overall different purpose, so a nuker hero could for example be a:

Pusher
Farmer
Stuner
Silencer


I am currently planning on developing 20 unique heroes, however this is not a final number, the map might be released with fewer heroes and then have more added over time

Each hero will have a nice balance and excellent synergy between skills, each skill will complement the next on some level, but not so that they do not function alone.



Future:

Since I plan on making Tubs a very competitive AoS style map I will eventually do some recruitment to the Tubs team

Positions POSSIBLY available in the future:

Skilled JASS coder
Community manager
Forum operators
Terrainer
Tournament handlers
Artist
3d modeling for a more unique look, nothing over the top though

I am currently not recruiting to any positions so please don't ask.


Final words:

This is a very big project that will take a long time, this is only the very rough raw idea of it that needs a lot of smoothing down, I am at the moment working on some hero ideas, if I feel I need a outsider look I will most definitely be making a suggestion thread for the heroes, I have seen amazing ideas pop up in some of those threads !

Feel free to give me constructive criticism and share your thoughts on my ideas, I realize that my ambitions and thinking is high, but in a world of having to compete with a big name like Dota I believe its needed, even to just make a map become moderately popular !

Thank you all for reading and happy problem solving :banghead:
:thup:


Hero suggestion thread can be found here, use your chance now and come up with a good hero that might be used in Tubs !

http://www.thehelper.net/forums/showthread.php?p=1203861#post1203861


Edit: I'm currently focusing my efforts on setting up a domain and forums for the map, after thats done I will start recruitment for people to work on the map with me, this will only just be a very few select people at start that get the idea and then I will expand.

I'm currently having a very busy real life, but it will never stop the developement of Tubs as I never intended to work on the map 24/7 until it was finished, currently it is a passion of mine, but I wont make the mistake of burning out on the idea, this is also why I am going to be hiring people to help me a long, since both it takes a lot of workload of my self and gives a bigger perspective !

So if you are interested in working on this amazing future map, stay posted, a recruitment thread will be posted "soon™" meaning within this week:)

The domain will only hold forums for the time being, this will be open for everyone and have some general sections, although the primary reason and focus of the forums will be to have good communication between everyone working on the map, I don't really in a realistic way believe that people will start following forums for a map that is currently "mostly" still yet an idea:)
 

Rllulium

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I really cannot find anything in the above post that makes me interested in your project. There is basiclly nothing that describes what makes your map unique, interesting and fun. And given the (very) early development stage you seem to be in, there really ins't much idea to present your project unless you have a very unique idea to discuss, or alot of members to recruit. I'm going to guess that you posted this for the point of aforementioned advertisement.
 

Ommi

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So its gonna be like dota? or what is it going to be like.

Well all AoS maps are going to be like dota in a sense, the point is to go down a lain, slaying waves of enemy creeps, get into the base and destroy their main building

this is the basis of a AoS map

So yes, in that way my map will be like dota, I am however trying to move away from the standard AoS style and implement some fun and exciting gameplay features that will change the way you play it

The only problem I have found with this is that, the features while they may seem interesting on paper need to be simple enough so that players can get into them easy, but still complex enough to keep them interesting

It also needs to be something that affects the gameplay in a good way, and not in a overpowered way.

I already have 3 ideas cooking up and am looking to implement enough new gameplay types into my map that it wont have the feel of a normal dota styled AoS, but feel like a new experience but still having the factors that makes dota such a good eSports map, the competitiveness will stay, the style will be different :)
 

Ommi

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I really cannot find anything in the above post that makes me interested in your project. There is basiclly nothing that describes what makes your map unique, interesting and fun. And given the (very) early development stage you seem to be in, there really ins't much idea to present your project unless you have a very unique idea to discuss, or alot of members to recruit. I'm going to guess that you posted this for the point of aforementioned advertisement.

Like you said I don't have much to present right now, thusly also making the advertisement fact of this rather pointless

The reason Im posting my idea here is simply to get feedback on it and being able to update this page as the project grows, the main reason for me posting this so early on was explained at the top of the page

"get my idea down on paper", things generally happen faster that way and are not lost in a flow of thoughts.
 

HeX.16

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I would make it large amounts of units in each lane and you can buy more BUT CAN POOL. Also make it so its more of a stealth based game like hiding and ambushing heroes. Then i would play it also i dont know if you can but make a event like every 5 mins or so the tree setup changes to make it harder to remeber and a more challenging map.
Edit: Please dont double post use the edit buttom even if it is your thread.
 

Ommi

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I would make it large amounts of units in each lane and you can buy more BUT CAN POOL. Also make it so its more of a stealth based game like hiding and ambushing heroes. Then i would play it also i dont know if you can but make a event like every 5 mins or so the tree setup changes to make it harder to remeber and a more challenging map.
Edit: Please dont double post use the edit buttom even if it is your thread.

I like the idea of large creep waves, this will give the battles a more "epic" feeling when you have so many creeps around you battling it out during a 3v3 or even a 5v5 team battle !

The stealth aspect is something I will implement in maybe 1 or 2 heroes specifically, making them some sort of assassin types

I do however LOVE the high grass system in League of Legends if you've played that game, and would love to implement something that is similar in the way that non stealth heroes can still be very sneaky and wait for the right moment to gank or sneak up on a team battle, this is definitely something I want to expand on, but I also dont want to just rip of the high grass system.


Im not sure I like the idea of the map constantly changing, a competitive map has to be consistent so that players can learn every little tiny detail and abuse it to their advantage, thats a + for me, I want to see people analyze the use of the little hill above the rock and the tree :p


Anyway, thanks a lot for your input and Im definitely willing to hear more good suggestions, specially at this early stage when pretty much nothing is set in stone !

So if anyone else has any good ideas, what features would you put in a AoS map to make it interesting ? we arent talking SPACEDRAGONS ON CRACK IN EVERY LAIN interesting, just the minor things that adjust the gameplay of players, I like the idea of the stealthy play since thats something you can CHOSE to do and are not forced to, a tank for example might just want to stick to his lain and mash creeps while a glass cannon nuker would love to zoom around the foresty areas haunting for pray and "doing it from behind" ganks on those slackers on the enemy team that didnt back with 25% hp !


Will try to watch out editing my posts from here rather then make a separate reply to each post, thanks for the comment :) :thup:
 

HeX.16

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What does Tubs stand for?
Also i think the epic battles would be nice also with creep spawning quickly on a large map but watch for lag.
 

Ommi

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What does Tubs stand for?
Also i think the epic battles would be nice also with creep spawning quickly on a large map but watch for lag.

Tubs stands for "The Ultimate Blood Sport"


I had one idea where the map was fairly huge and you would have "check points" so each team would have their main base and then maybe 3 pairs of towers on a lain, and at each pair of towers there would be a barrack and a teleporter from the main base, to each barrack, this would mean the battles would be happening all over the map and heroes would have a easy time switching.

The only problem I see with this is games taking way to long, its one of my ideas anyway, I will put some more thinking into it.

I like the idea of a lot of creeps spawning quick though, the problem I see with it though is, the map becoming to much pve, and in normal AoS, for example dota these small forces often manage to gather up into quite a big force, so imagen a lot of big forces gathering up hehe, it would be like a massive army

Definitely worth looking into !

Thanks again for the input


Edit: I have been thinking a lot about resource points as well, you could have for example 2x gold generating points, 1x speed boost point, 1x hp boosting point etc etc (not too many though) these can't be TOO strong or the entire map will be about capturing those, but definitely a big enough bonus so they are worth going for and defending, the biggest fear I have of implementing something like this though is that players will focus too much on pve objectives and less on the very important and main fun point of AoS which is the pvp, developing your hero and ganking the enemy team and the epic pvp battles.

I also want the map to be from start to finish about 30 - 60 mins depending on teams strength, so adding too many objectives or having the map too big could prolong the map too much
 

Happysmiley

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Starting a project with these proportions requires a huge amount of ambition and fantasy, which I think you possess. There were more than a few ideas about it I liked. If you feel that your imagination has run out, feel free to contact me as I might have a few ideas. Good luck :thup:
 

Ommi

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Starting a project with these proportions requires a huge amount of ambition and fantasy, which I think you possess. There were more than a few ideas about it I liked. If you feel that your imagination has run out, feel free to contact me as I might have a few ideas. Good luck :thup:


Thank you, I have very high ambitions about this map and I have always wanted to maintain a successful eSport community, and I have always wanted to maintain a good well balanced competitive map that can be constantly tweaked and worked on as players play and experience it and give feedback

I realize this is a HUGE project, the map will take several months to finish to release, and then it needs to build popularity which I'm not even sure is very possible with warcraft to any real extent, we have developers move out of warcraft making their own software for dota and warcraft is slowly dying.

However all of this will be a great learning experience no matter what and as soon as StarCraft 2 is out I will be back on the map design in a jiffy ready to conquer the custom map playing field for the next 10 years :thup:

I would very much love to hear your ideas, I might not use them all but getting a outside perspective on things is always very helpful and makes me think in different ways then I would otherwise, you might open my mind up to something I never even thought about before :)
 

IronTrout

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If you intend on using massive creep battles, then I'd suggest using a counter for each lane (like a maximum of say 40 units per lane, per team) or something.

How would you do the sub-bases? just a simple tower to defend it? or will you make a lesser amount of creeps spawn there?

Just an idea, maybe as a goal, you have to capture bases, thus resulting in more creeps being pushed into a lane, this may speed up the game dramatically, but also if implemented well, could increase game time if the players are good enough.
 

Ommi

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If you intend on using massive creep battles, then I'd suggest using a counter for each lane (like a maximum of say 40 units per lane, per team) or something.

How would you do the sub-bases? just a simple tower to defend it? or will you make a lesser amount of creeps spawn there?

Just an idea, maybe as a goal, you have to capture bases, thus resulting in more creeps being pushed into a lane, this may speed up the game dramatically, but also if implemented well, could increase game time if the players are good enough.

Yes the idea was that the main creep force would come from the main base but then these barracks would either spawn a small support force or 1 - 2 powerful creeps every 2 waves or so.

my idea of defense was a simple tower at each barrack yes, I really like the idea of capturing them as well, it gives good lane control and my idea was also to plant a teleporter at each barrack, making traveling easier, this would make the barracks even more desirable to capture to gain more map control


Might also be an idea to have 3 neutral barracks at the start of the map exactly in the middle of each lane, but not where the creeps of each team walks, these barracks could then be captures by heroes making them a fighting point away from the lane creeps, these barracks could then give something beneficial for the team fx:

resource point, give some sort of resources over time, gold or some sort of a map wide buff such as +attack damage or movement speed etc

A teleporter, this would be extremely important to a team to have since it both gives lane control, you can teleport quickly between the main base and the middle of the lane and between the lanes if you have more then 1 barrack !

Unit spawns, when you have captured the barrack it could spawn some extra creeps for you to help with lane control and pushing.

I agree with you, it needs to be a good balance, in public games this could mean the games go quicker if one team is dominating and capturing bases left and right.

In competitive play this feature could prolong play as well and make for really interesting hero fights I think, the bases are far enough away from creeps so they are not too involved in the fight, and you could really set up some epic ambushes and ganks around these bases.


Question is now how would you capture the bases, stay in a powercircle for a specific amount of time, kill some boss creep that would spawn there as a neutral creep at first and then respawn each time the base would be capured for that specific team, make weak towers and when those are destroyed the team captures the base and the barrack respawns towers for the capturing team

A lot of possibility, but I really like this barrack / sub-base idea I think it would definitly bring a new play style to the map and make for very interesting ganks and pvp situations.
 

IronTrout

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Question is now how would you capture the bases, stay in a powercircle for a specific amount of time, kill some boss creep that would spawn there as a neutral creep at first and then respawn each time the base would be capured for that specific team, make weak towers and when those are destroyed the team captures the base and the barrack respawns towers for the capturing team

Perhaps make each base square, if enemy unit enters region (base) for longer then 2 seconds and enemy units out number allied units in region, it starts a count down which is affected by number of enemy units in region. As the region gets closer to converting, the tower deals less and less damage (the tower would be invulnerable). Like:

Number of allied units = 2
Number of enemy units = 4
Base integrity = 100
{[Base] - ([Enemy] - [Allied])}
If [Base] = 0 then
Convert all buildings to team 2
 

mylemonblue

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Will it be entirely micromanagement (DoTA and it's kin) or will it be a mix of micro/macromanging (Like EoTA)?

EoTA had a powercircle-esque system of capturing sub-basses, you'd destroy the townhall there, and then a hero could buy the location and spawn his version there, and then the computer player that owns the spawning waves would build a tower nearby. You could upgrade the halls to give them regen abilites, or to spawn extra waves as a last resort "(read: Mercinaries), build small 'tombs' or whatnot near the halls to make 1 additional creep type spawn for your team (Aside from the traditional 1 melee and 1 ranged). You could also purchase temporary heroes that would fight for your side, and...

...

Wow I'm getting off-topic o_O

Anyway, sub-basses would be a nice idea :)
 

Ommi

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Will it be entirely micromanagement (DoTA and it's kin) or will it be a mix of micro/macromanging (Like EoTA)?

EoTA had a powercircle-esque system of capturing sub-basses, you'd destroy the townhall there, and then a hero could buy the location and spawn his version there, and then the computer player that owns the spawning waves would build a tower nearby. You could upgrade the halls to give them regen abilites, or to spawn extra waves as a last resort "(read: Mercinaries), build small 'tombs' or whatnot near the halls to make 1 additional creep type spawn for your team (Aside from the traditional 1 melee and 1 ranged). You could also purchase temporary heroes that would fight for your side, and...

...

Wow I'm getting off-topic o_O

Anyway, sub-basses would be a nice idea :)


Hey !

I definitely want more of a micro/macro system yes, while the essence of the "e-sport" is in watching the pvp action I feel that a more complex map in some ways then the very basic idea of "go down this road and kill this building" will make for a lot more interesting games and get a lot more strategy to the AoS genre rather then the ordinary, "get your skills in this order and buy these items"

While I hope the micro aspect stays dominant and will be what players thrive for, being able to get those quad kills I want them to also have to think about map control, so essentially more macro like you said :)

Thanks for the input !
 

mylemonblue

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Their website is still up, and the game is still being developed from what I can see (Last major update to the game was a month or so ago). You might want to check it out: http://eota.emufarmers.com/

It has all the basics of a general AoS map, ut unlike DoTA it does not have a recipie system. Rather, it has a 'forging' system where you take one item, place it in your altar where you revive, and click the Forge Item button. If you have enough gold, it upgrades the item. (eg Orb of Health +2 regen -> +3 regen -> +4 regen and so on). RPG items are there, where you can only have 1 type of armor/weapon at a time, and there are artifacts that only one can exist at a time.

An... Interesting... feautre is the Potato of the Apocalypse. Yes, you read that right. Potato. Of the apocolapse. Very rarely, a potato will spawn in a random hero's inventory, and a countdown starts. If he is still carrying the potato (which cannot be dropped), he explodes. However, he can pass it on to another hero's inventory, allied or enemy. Hot potato. Of the apocolypse.

Another unique step they took was multipe maps to play on, varying in size. At the beginning a dialog box pops up and people are asked which map they want to play on. Each map has it's unique features, like the largest one has 5 lanes, Arthas as a mercinary which can be paid to play a song that randomly sows chaos through the field (ie, randomly curses enemy units to become sheep for a peirod of time, etc). The marsh map (medium sized) allows you to hire additional builders which can build unique towers and spawn extra units (Mire Hydras for instance).

Another element is the wagon which can pick up this stone, forget what it's called, and if it's brought back to their base, that team wins. So there is a total of 3 ways to win the game. Resources, COnquest, And Artifact.
Additionally, the AI team that spawns the waves would periodacally spawn a tower worker that would capture a neutral tower and convert it to their team, but in the latest version of the map that feature is broken. The workers spawn, but they don't move :(

Temporary heros can be hired to play for the AI on your team, and each outpost base can hire mercinarys that follow the lanes until killed. And the new features don't stop there. DoTA would have been replaced by this long ago, if people would actually just try it.
 
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