Defense Custom Hero Line Wars - |Mod's Pick|

sadness214

New Member
hi there...

i'm just new in here...i was playing the hero line wars...but it was a long time ago...and now i want to play this game again...i have downloaded v1.42
and i wonder how can i get gold on that version??hmm??help please? :)
 

Sevion

The DIY Ninja
plz can u make a modus where u cant buy summon skills? theyre fucking lame -.-'
Lame? In late game they suck balls. You're better off going with some kind of splash or multishot.

The only problem is they take income from allies. A better solution would be to create a mode to share bounty killed by summons.
 

Dan1lo

New Member
Hey guys~
It's been a long time since I posted here...
I've been through a CHLW streak and lost only once
I tried many combinations and got a lot of conclusions out of them =D (on 4x4 games)

So... let's begin *DETAILED WALLPOST BEYOND*
The passive shrine option:
I really liked it, it prevents people from either killing your summons with blizzard/chain lightning and encourages the use of statis trap or other things, such as healing ward or monster lure. The dragon... well... in my team of 4, only 2 people used the shrine, me and other guy, and he didn't bother in letting the dragon rest ^^

One of my favorite builds is nuke+magic mastery, but I gotta say quick snipe+magic mastery is quite imbalanced by the end... I can kill ANY monster until the very late endgame creeps(these on the regular 100% all game mode) and if I don't kill, I can't deal some high damage until they reach there. the only ones who escape this are wyverns and trees(obviously)
I then tried combining nukes with vitality crush, but its cooldown is way too big, it becomes quite useless at endgame since you can't spam it on multiple wyverns/trees, and you can't 'rack them up' because of their high damage :p but I liked the skill in overall

Infernals, though, seem a little imbalanced. On endgame, for instance, if you summon infernals you will stun the creeps in there AND deal those 300k chaos damage, which kills trees as they were paper-thin(in 5 to 10 hits... cant remember) so... as long as a player would be willing to use a statis trap, or offer vampiric aura to them, they would be unbeatable.

Temporal armor is a skill I really liked, it is not TOO good, since the chances are quite low, but it helps a lot on the more defense based builds, where you can tank a lot and have creeps stunned/killed.

the recipe shops are trouble...
I myself have no trouble with the recipes, I can do them fine, but I'm always asked about HOW TO GET LUMBER? or WHERE DO I BUY GLIMMERING GREAVES/HEROIC BATTLE CLAWS/GRAND STAFF?(dunno the full name xD)
Then, people aren't really appealed to DO the recipe items, I saw every player buying either a regular lumber item(those on weaponry/protection) or upgrading the stat items(the ones mentioned above) but very few did complete the recipes...
last game I found a guy with 3 hammers and 3 tower shields...
then a really GOOD guy, with a good skill build and income, but with only 2 sets of pots on his inventory~(mana/hp)

Then there's the items... recipe shop 1 is basically a 'classic' which contains the most used recipes. I adventured myself and tried recipe shop 2...
There I could find the pyroblaze(sword...) which was very useful, when I had vampiric aura, but is an orb effect... the shields are great melee items and I incorporated them into my melee builds~ The biggest problem is that most attack items are orb effects, which make users always get vampiric aura to survive(since endurance aura doesn't give enough regen)

Then there's the ranged items... the flambeau is useful and I had some fun with it, but it's only available late in the game, so I just skip it to get killmaim(and the recipe lifesteal~) nightfire has become a MUSTHAVE for my ranged builds, because it gives me hope that I can kill a tree in regular attacks. this item, though, is quite imba... I thought about it and tested MARINE+ENDURANCE AURA+EAGLE EYE+MULTISHOT+w/e with nightfire... well the result was... a creep, no matter how big strong and fat it was, would die in up to 10s, including trees, while multishot would heavily damage the others around... Melee heroes don't have such item AND it makes even the weakest ranged hero a powerful weapon against the endgame creeps...

My suggestions on items? review the recipe shops, maybe make the needed items for recipes more accessible, easy to find, and try to review recipe shop 2, since it has THE NIGHT FIRE and ALLORBEFFECTS for melees... I think melees deserve something like nightfire, a powerful non-orb attack item...

and last, but not least...

Something interesting has happened today... I was hosting a game, and a guy said "hey... do you have the original version of the map?" and I was "yeah... this is it"
"no, it's not, I'll show you later" and he just wouldn't make up his mind so...
Has anyone heard about it :D?
p.s.: made it red to see things clearer :D
 

Moridin

Snow Leopard
Hey. I've been playing this map recently with a few friends and I came across a few bugs.

1) Glimmering Greaves as an item is either invisible in the shop or just not there. It is also necessary for MOST of the agility item recipes, making it really unfair on agi picks.

2) The Forked Lightning power in your shrine is great in the way it kills everything, but it either has way too many effects or is poorly coded. Whenever I use it, the game just freezes for a second and everything dies. The lightning part gets skipped because it causes so much lag.

3) I used an ultimate (I'm not sure of the exact name) that basically sends your hero in a target direction hurting everything that gets in the way. Unfortunately, I realised that I had "charged" right into the repick circle of power, thus making my hero lose all his items, levels and force me to spend another minute repicking.
 

Sevion

The DIY Ninja
1) Glimmering Greaves is the agility boots bought 5x over.

2) It lags because of all of the targets to hit.

3) That's your own fault.
 

Moridin

Snow Leopard
1) Ah right. Thanks for clearing that :). The agility boots being "warm socks" ?

2) Instead of making it hit targets why not just lightning effects across the screen? Less lightning to process?

3) Yes I guess it was :p. Still, it makes that ability somewhat treacherous if you can jump cliffs with it. What if you got to an in-accessible area and couldn't get down?

Oh also suggestions:

1) Make some items have activate abilities.
 

Sevion

The DIY Ninja
1) I don't remember. It's the agility boots that cost 1 lumber.

2) It's because it's basically the default ability with different values (range damage etc).

3) You still can't get passed the boundaries unless he codes it that way. Which is doubtful.
 

ninja

New Member
@ Moridon: Yeah, it's the Warm socks. Buy them five times and you'll get your glimmering greaves.

BTW: thanks Baka, I love this game. The first version I owned was version 1.3x something and played it constantly, until I went on your website and found 1.4x to download. I killed a lot of hours playing that with my friends, trying various builds to see if we can beat a massacre of wveryns and trees.

That was about a year, maybe two years ago. Recently, I introduced this to a few buddies of mine who are new to WC3. I was curious whether there was a new version, but I was sad to see your website down and I thought this project had come to a halt.

And then, I found your posts here. Super grateful the map's still under occasional development. I really dig the changes you've made - especially the solo mode. But there seems to be a bug when playing it. I tried it twice, and if I send a ton of units starting from tier 3, some enemies I send will randomly pop up on the other side. More noticably, this happens with specific units more often than others, such as Strangling Gas. If I send 32 of them quickly some of them will show up on the bottom - it's quite annoying actually when testing new builds with your new skills.

That said, I hope it gets fixed in the new version - if you need, I can send a replay of this occurrence. Keep up the work on this map - looking forward to future developments if any!
 
I didn't realise that people actually still played.. I haven't played in a good few months... =S But either way it's pretty awesome!

To address the points you guys made:

Sharing bounty
Personally, I don't think this is a good idea. It'd inflate the in game economy too fast and increase the chances of spamming, which is a pretty big issue as it is..

Passive Shrine
Dragon doesn't get used in half the games I used to play anyhow.. So I think it's a pretty minor issue, as the whole point of PS was to encourage the use of stasis trap/monster lure etc.

Abilities
Yeah I know, Quick Snipe + Magic Mastery is pretty imba late game, one of my mates used to use it whenever I played with him. Kinda annoying, but not sure what to do about it.

From what I remember, Vitality Crush got pretty strong late game, with a decent AoE? Monster Lure then cast is a nice combo if you're in trouble.

Can't say that I've played a whole lot with Infernals, but as far as summons go, they're always better with auras but tend to get swamped when a whole mass get sent.

Speeding Slash was due for a rework, except I just never got around to it, though I'm fairly sure I coded in something that would stop that from happening...

As Sevion says, Forked Lightning is just stock, with a butt load of targets and huge AoE, and the lag comes just from the sheer number of effects that get generated when it's cast. There isn't much I can do about it, except maybe take out the lightning effect, but then if it didn't lag, it'd seem a bit strange when things died because of nothing...

Items
As it seems, items always come up as an issue. As it stands, shop 1 recipes pretty much do what you need, while shop 2 are say, accessories lol. The things is, I could add new items, but since shop 1 do everything already, there isn't really a point? But say I went and modified shop 1 items to work better with shop 2 items, I think a lot of people would be upset by that... So not too sure what to do with this either, which is also the reason why new items haven't come out because they'd mostly be redundant..

I think that as far as clarity goes, if you read the tool tips, everything is in there, it's just that some people refuse to read them. Though I will admit that "upgradable x more times" is a bit ambiguous to generate the required items for recipes.

About Night Fire, there isn't a melee version of it since they already have cleave. Honestly, any decent melee build will have Crit + Cleave, that in itself is a pretty strong combo (since you're ignoring armour with your crits), coupled with survivability is pretty hard to take down. That said, ranged have nothing which ignores armour. Sure multi-shot is essentially the same thing, it's no where near as good as Cleave in terms of damage output since it only splashes damage equal to that of what you're dealing to your main target. Also it doesn't splash your Crits either. So basically, early game Cleave is rubbish while multi-shot is imba, late game, Cleave is imba while mutli-shot is pretty average. To sort of make up for this disparity, ranged get Night Fire, although it's a small measure, it does make a significant difference.

There's also one item with an active ability, "Thor's hammer" though it is, admittedly, a bit rubbish lol

Solo mode
I THINK I know which issue you're talking about which I thought I solved a while ago, but basically what's happening is that you're summoning too fast.
Later tier creep have a larger collision size, so when you spam a large number of creep some of them "over flow" onto the other side, causing them to come down the wrong lanes.


Sorry for the essay length reply, but I hope I addressed all your points and answered your queries. Good to see that people actually still play after so long, makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside :p

GL HF
Baka
 

Sevion

The DIY Ninja
Sharing bounty
Personally, I don't think this is a good idea. It'd inflate the in game economy too fast and increase the chances of spamming, which is a pretty big issue as it is.
There's a simple solution to this inflation with the "share bounty". Decrease it. Though, that'd mean you'd have to trigger every bounty and it might get laggy.

Though, I could see if I could make something ;)
 
Ooooh, you meant split bounty? I was thinking direct bounty sharing...

I suppose split bounty could work, but what if you've got an afk on your team, then that's just wasting gold..
 

Sevion

The DIY Ninja
I suppose. But still, split would be a nice challenge because then one player won't get more income just because his summons are very strong early game.

You could have some command (with periodic checking to avoid abuse) to remove afk players from the split pot.

By the way, do you have any form of Instant Messaging?
 

Dan1lo

New Member
hey Baka, thanks for the answers to the issues xD

About thor's hammer, I used it and HEY, IT IS GOOD!
it's a forked chain lightning... and... whenever I used it, there would be a circle of dead bodies in about 400~600 range from me, so that's cool xD

I understand about night fire now, also~

Sharing bounty...I kinda liked the idea because there are those who pick lava spawn, or dragons, or wards as first spells, and they monopolize the bounty from early kills~ also, people would be more motivated to just KILL then last hit~(there IS the bounty off mode, but it's a bit too slow~)

Hmm lemme see... OH, a guy was playing with me and picked morphling+other stuff+incinerate... and it bugged up. it either did a decent damage and exploded the creep, or didn't deal damage at all... the funny thing is, when I killed his creep(which was bugged but 'incinerated'), it exploded and unbugged him... dunno what's happening.

there ARE some things which confuse the noobs everytime... I'll list the ones I remember right now:
1 - choosing spells, there IS the big repick sign on the floor, but there could also be a 'click on the spells to sell them' there, to warn the new ones.
2 -the summonners... well... at least 70% of the people who have never played the game, or have played it once or twice, have issues with this. They just focus on KILLING creeps and BUYING POTIONS and don't realise they have to summon mobs so... can there be a command such as "if income = 20 for 3 rounds, *point the summoner*", this way they wouldn't be confused about WHERE to summon and would be reminded they need to do it.
3 - the spell vault... I've become a fan of the passive shrine mode, because noobs don't spam weak spells and kill creeps for the gold, but one thing I hate is when they use the ALMIGHTY DRAGON on 20, 30 creeps, when there next wave(after the dragon dies) comes in hundreds :p so... can there be a mode where only the team's 'captain' can activate the dragon?
4 - ITEMS. as stated, many 'pro' players didn't make their builds... and people either have two questions. 1 - 'how do I get lumber', which isn't said in the game, as far as I remember. and 2 - 'how do I get' glimmering greaves(as the poster above), heroic battle claws... I think the tooltip could have "can be upgraded up to 4 times and reach Glimmering Greaves" or something.

Nice to know you 'feel warm and fuzzy inside'(kinda ö.o) but uhm~
It IS a good map to spend time, matches last about 30~40 minutes, epic ones up to 50~60 minutes xD
Dunno... there could be more modifiers... maybe heroes having different innate abilities in collumn(so that 3 different models would have the same ability), those which would make people try new builds, such as using INT melees instead of agi or str, maybe adding splash to ranged str(turtle) so they would pick it up~
I'm just saying what comes to mind, but you get the point ^^

Cheers~
 
The thing is, when people pick summons, I don't particularly mind if they take all the bounty, provided that they actually utilise their inflated income poperly. But the problem is that, more often than not, they don't... So I guess something like this should be implemented.

I only have MSN btw.

I might've buffed it a while back and forgotten to test it again, but if you say it's that strong, I'll take your word for it :p

Incinerate for ranged has always been a bit buggy.. I believe if you stop doing damage, manually change target, and it SHOULD start doing damage again. Otherwise get within melee range and it'll kick in lol.. Not too sure why that is, but Blizzard is Blizzard with their quirks.

I try my best to idiot-proof everything. Seriously. I'm fairly sure that "click to sell ability" is in the tool tip, it's one of the first things I did when I implemented it, since there really was no other way of letting people know that they could.. If only people would just read a little more..

I know this is an issue, but I haven't come up with a way to unobtrusively way do this. For example, what if you're defending and it gets pretty intense and you just forget to do it? (I do sometimes) Then randomly while you're fighting it flicks your screen to the summoner and says "remember to summon~!", then your hero dies lol. I'd be pretty pissed.
Or what if it's just a strat to save up a few income rounds to send a couple fat creep over, it'd get kinda annoying after a while.. Although you gave the example for "if income = 20, then remind", a lot of the time the newer players just forget to consistently do it, they'll do it the first few times you tell them, and just forget about it.

As for "captain" mode, if you play pubs, how much trust do you have in someone? I mean wasting dragon is one thing, but not being able to use it when you actually need it is another?

I usually don't get a full set of items either lol Immortals till late tier 4 then others once it gets end game. You don't really need them if you're build is good enough and/or the settings of the match aren't too high.
How to get lumber isn't stated anywhere, but I'm not too sure where to put it. Speaking of which, tool tips could use a once over just to improve clarity.

Innates have come up a lot in suggestions, but the thing I have against them is that, obviously some innates will be better than others. Which then in turn, restricts the choice of hero because you want a good innate, which entirely defeats the purpose of having so many models to begin with. I could put in an "innate" shop, but there isn't enough space on the hero UI to accommodate it lol

Personally I always pick an int hero. Early game, the bigger mana pool makes a huge difference. For my builds at least :p
 
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