Defense Custom Hero Line Wars - |Mod's Pick|

Drekthar_

New Member
Actually, I seemed to have something like that... On Burna Boy (the Incinerate build)... Whenever I shot at a creep, it seemed to do no damage until melee range. Then, when they get into melee range, they just go BOOM!.

Except, that's only in mid-late game creeps. Early game creeps seem to take damage fine.
Its the same for me, but it doesnt matter what level of the creeps. And it seems like its random, cos sometimes it hits sometimes it doesnt. Very annoying.

Btw, great map. I host it like 2 times a day, but thers not a huge rush of people joining, maybe time for a new version? ;)
 

Drekthar_

New Member
Darn 1 hour edit limit; Anyways, the only BAD thing about the map is the gargantual/ENORMOUS size, there is nothing more irritating then creeps being able to walk around you. Scale it 50-70% and it will be epic.

And adding some new skills would also be very nice, for summons why not add water elementals or wolfs? There alot more skills to pick from that are already in the original game.

And maybe some new heroskins aswell?
 

Sevion

The DIY Ninja
IMHO Size is fine.

Why do we need more summons?

Hero skins? And buff the map size even MORE?

And what's this about 1 hour edit limit?

If you have a fully activated account, you can edit any time...
 

Drekthar_

New Member
IMHO Size is fine.

Why do we need more summons?

Hero skins? And buff the map size even MORE?

And what's this about 1 hour edit limit?

If you have a fully activated account, you can edit any time...
Haha yeah, i just saw that now :eek:

Why not? Nothing is ever completed, it would be fun with some new content. There is still alot to add, why do you think WMW expands? Throwing in a few more skills and skins would be nice.

I ment skins that you can choose to play, why not add? Just something, make it feel new and fresh. If you cant get any ideas yourself, check out what skills/stuffs there are in maps like Lition or ROC or ENFO or AOS maps. Darn now im almost out of maps that have loads of heroes with diffrent skins and stuffs, maybe some Hero Arena map? Dont know, theres still alot to ad in my opinion.

Nah, i dont think size is fine, maybe with full 5 vs 5 its good, but with 2vs2, the size is just dumb. If im alone, i have to run back all the time to get the creeps that i dont even aggro cos out of range cos of the idi size.

Edit: Dont get me wrong i love this map but why stop here? Fucking conquer, own b.net. Go big! :D
 

Sevion

The DIY Ninja
1. You realize that to add more hero skins is just to buff the map's size and he would just have to find some way to add skin choosing... It's not really that great IMHO.

2. That's what patrol is for. You patrol vertically across the lane and you keep an EYE on them with your summoning shrine hotkeyed to 1, hero to 2, and your shrine to 3. Mule to 4 if you really want it.

3. DotA owns B.net...
 
There are currently 72 models to choose from, if you would like to see a specific model included, post it up, maybe I'll replace one of the lesser used models with the on you requested. Creep use up a lot of models already, and I'd prefer to not have any overlap between hero and creep models, if there isn't already.

If you're talking about custom skins/models, I'd rather not bloat the map size needlessly, it's already 600kb+ and on average takes close to a minute to download.

Size is fine, it's intended for them to walk around you, so you have to pay attention, it'd be too easy if they just aggro'd as soon as they spawned.

While it's true that nothing is ever completed, I'm trying to only added original abilities or existing ones with a good twist, which is why in recent updates only a few abilities were added. I'm also trying to add functionality to existing abilities, mostly auto-cast, to try and open up more possibilities away from the existing options.

Development is mostly slow because of lack of new content to add, as well as lack of time on my part. I do agree that there's always space for new abilities, but ideas come few and far between, while taking ideas from other maps, I feel that if an ability doesn't have a "hey, that's so cool" sort of effect, then I don't really want to recreate it. Also functionality of the ability between maps is a big issue too.

Thanks for your support and feedback though! It's always good to hear from you guys.
 

Dan1lo

New Member
Ok so you wanna have feedback on auto-cast abilities?

Well, sir, slow IS useless, late game.
It is a GREAT advantage to have a creep slowed to great levels, but you can only aim ONE BY ONE, which means you'll have to spend 30s just casting SLOW around all the creeps, while more come... so... Picture yourself on the end game creep summoneer, with 30 wyverns 20 sky barges 23 vengeful spirits and 3 trees coming at ya... you just don't have time(nor hp) to do that~

Haste, on other hand, was great :D because you only have 5 heroes at most to target, and the optional summons, if you wanna have those carrion beetles/etc attacking faster.
But... it has its disadvantages, you can't have it if you are magic immune... so if you use ki ken tai no ichi, avatar, anti-magic potion, the effect simply vanishes, which is a big downside... so people stick to endurance aura, but haste is crazy as I tested xD

the same to SLOW occurs to several other auto-casts...(I'll name some from WC3 and some of those are also in the map)
Searing arrows: great dps, single target
Frost arrows: great slow, additional damage, but single target
Poison Arrows: good slow, good dps and additional damage, but single target
Orb of Annhilation: AoE damage :D orb effect D;
Black Arrows: Now this is a GOOD one, since you'll create creeps, which get stronger and you also get additional damage for using it... but it's quite hard to KILL creeps fast enough to overcome the masses later on~

Spell Steal: so... what kind of positive buff can you steal from the monsters? those battle roars/inner fire stuff? well... not so good in overall, since not all creeps buff, and the buffers get TOO MANY buffed, so you can't spell steal to DEBUFF them fast enough

Well... to think about it now, Auto-casts seem to be the least used group of skills ever...
Summons seems to be the top, since a guy could survive Godlike difficulty, solo, using swift learner 3 summons and inferno...
Then there's the auras, since everybody likes vampiric/endurance
Then passives, critical, cleave, bash...
THEN Nukes/AoEs since they shine

and finally auto-casts... I have only seen some of those arrows and HASTE being used, nothing else~
 

Sevion

The DIY Ninja
Passives and auras are all I ever use. I use, on occasion, Gamble, but I usually use Drunken Brawler or Avatar if I feel I need Magic Immune.

A passive magic immune plox? (OP to shit but... my build would be unstoppable ^_^)

Endurance, Debilitation, Degeneration, Incinerate, Drunken Brawler on Burna Boy. <3
 
Well I knew most of them were more or less useless =p I just needed ideas on what to do with them. I think that Orb of Annihilation is fine, even if it as an orb effect. It gives a decent aoe splash, deals hero damage and gives a decent damage bonus. Searing arrows, I think is more aimed at the bounce heroes. It gives a huge damage bonus, but I suppose has limited uses. Black arrow people use, maybe the summons are a bit under powered later, but that's the case with every other summon skill.. Don't know if people use inner fire or not, but in my opinion is pretty under rated. but everything else, I agree, is pretty useless lol

I would probably put passives at the top of most used list, then auras, summons, nukes/aoe and finally auto casts.

Passive/aura builds are pretty boring, they work, but it's not as fun as playing a nuker, or something with more active abilities. Doesn't it get boring playing the same build every game? I probably have about 5 different builds that I like to use depending on my mood or the modifiers of the match, usually dependent on the life modifier :p
 

Sevion

The DIY Ninja
I totally agree with the passive/aura build being boring, but.... It's fun :D

Still, I prefer my badass Burna Boy.... Innate splash ^_^

TBH, a lot of the actives don't really cut it for me.

I've tried playing as an active and I just don't like it.

And I don't know how people can play with Summons.... not very fun when you know how it is when your allies have summons.

Also, I've tried countering Summons by turning bounty off, but the game just progresses too slowly..
 
What do you mean doesn't cut it? Not fun/interesting/strong enough?

Turning off bounty indeed does slow the game down, but puts a stronger focus on the economics of the game. As in, the consistency of summoning, where missing a few income rounds could prove to be a major set back.
 

Sevion

The DIY Ninja
For me, my playing style is that I like to have my screen centered on my hero but my selected unit to be my summoner. Then, I just spam summon with all of my cash.

With my style, I don't like to have to keep switching back to my hero to cast actives.

It's bad enough when I have to select him to use up points on leveling up. And I'm especially bad mid-late game in buying recipes. I always stop sending >_<
 

Dan1lo

New Member
oh, Sevion, you don't have to be selecting your hero all the time to cast actives, silly boy ;D

You can allways pick either an AoE spell or an ultimate such as flash flood or... solar flare(remembered it /o) which can last pretty long and damage a lot while you summon, then, when you are cooling it down, you can cast ANOTHER of those huge spells or go for nukes, which have lower cooldown xD

try, for fun, brillance aura, forked lightning, magic mastery, web ward and solar flare
It isn't a solid eng-game build, but holds 4th tier creeps just fine, web ward is also good for your ranged allies, since you can stop all the fast creeps coming at you(chance stealers, those fast end-game spawns~)

If you think channeling isn't good and can be easily stopped, just buy a 3k ANTI-MAGIC POTION :p
---------------------------------------------------------------------

now, for the other topic...
I tried using poison arrows in a build right now... it didn't quite work well...
I ended up with a lot of infernal contraptions and hydras at my side, though they couldn't ~really~ kill me, I could only slowly kill them...

I tried assimilating any of those arrow-skills to ranged builds but they lack multi-target attack... since you can't get them with bounce heroes, and you don't have splash
the only solution would be using multishot, but you'd only have the first shot 'charged' and the others would be normal~ but it's still so-so
 

roXplosive

New Member
Well I like some builds (i found them strong) :
-Storm Surge , Fast Learner , Typhoon , Displace/Debilitation/WebWard , Tidal Wave - old school aoe channeling stuff but haven't tried it up lately
- The new passive skill that does multicast coupled with 2 of the following : Breathe fire , Quick Snipe , Forked Lightning , FoK , War Stomp , another 3'rd skill like debilitation , concentration or something else + Elemental Explosion ultimate . Using War stomp and Forked Lightning works pretty decent even on impossible and Quick Snipe reigns supreme on 1 vs 1
- Basic Melee Build : Concentration , Debilitation , Cleave , Typhoon and one of your choice here : Avatar/Ki Ken Tai No Ichi/Flying Fortress do the job . this build can outlast you even when everything seems lost but you are a bot of mana junkie
- Fun Ranged build (bounce) - Trueshot Aura , Devotion Aura , Debilitaion Aura , Other Skill , Mirror Image . This fares pretty well troughout the game and you might even kill some endgame wyverns with it . Amazingly the lifesteal orb effect (killmaim) works on illusions
- OMGWTFIWIN : Pick Marine and use the skills : Orb of Anihilation , Debilitation Aura , Critical , Typhoon (ofc typhoon and crit can be replaced but sometimes the typhoon can keep thee enemy at bay while i shop and my allies keep on dying ) and Ki Ken Tai No Ichi

Also question Did you trigger the following abilities :
- Orb of Pwnage - i see it places frost arrows buff and it splashes bash damage from Nightfire .... so did you trigger it ? Or used some tech upgrade to make hero switch from attack 1 to attack 2 that uses the type Missile(Splash)
- Eagle Eye - did you make it so it affects only your hero and if you repick the new hero doesn't benefit from it ?
 
For me, my playing style is that I like to have my screen centered on my hero but my selected unit to be my summoner. Then, I just spam summon with all of my cash.

With my style, I don't like to have to keep switching back to my hero to cast actives.

It's bad enough when I have to select him to use up points on leveling up. And I'm especially bad mid-late game in buying recipes. I always stop sending >_<
I hope you use hotkeys, even if it is just for summoning. I know some abilities have clashing hotkeys, but.. Just pick ones that don't :p

now, for the other topic...
I tried using poison arrows in a build right now... it didn't quite work well...
I ended up with a lot of infernal contraptions and hydras at my side, though they couldn't ~really~ kill me, I could only slowly kill them...

I tried assimilating any of those arrow-skills to ranged builds but they lack multi-target attack... since you can't get them with bounce heroes, and you don't have splash
the only solution would be using multishot, but you'd only have the first shot 'charged' and the others would be normal~ but it's still so-so
Yeah I realise that's the major problem with auto-cast abilites, lack of splash, but like I said, I'm trying to come up with ideas to increase their functionality :p

Also question Did you trigger the following abilities :
- Orb of Pwnage - i see it places frost arrows buff and it splashes bash damage from Nightfire .... so did you trigger it ? Or used some tech upgrade to make hero switch from attack 1 to attack 2 that uses the type Missile(Splash)
- Eagle Eye - did you make it so it affects only your hero and if you repick the new hero doesn't benefit from it ?
Didn't realise it splashed bash damage, and yes, if you repick you will lose the bonus from eagle eye.
 

Sevion

The DIY Ninja
Here's basically my queue:

1QWERQWERQWERQWERQWERQWERASDFASDFASDFASDFASDFASDFZXCVZXCVZXCVZXCVZXCV2O(SkillLevelUp)(Wait, Wait, Wait until Income)(Repeat)

In short? Yes I use hotkeys :p

1-Summoner
2-Hero
3-Shrine
4-Pack Mule
 

roXplosive

New Member
I would be interested in the triggering of Orb of Annihilation if you didn't use the blizzard ability . I'm just a beginner at mapmaking and was curious how did you pull it off .
 
@Sevion
You should probably use hotkeys for actives :p makes it easier

@roXplosive
Trigger:
  • annihilation add
    • Events
      • Unit - A unit Is attacked
    • Conditions
      • ((Attacking unit) is A Hero) Equal to True
      • (Level of Cold Arrows for (Attacking unit)) Greater than or equal to 1
    • Actions
      • If (All Conditions are True) then do (Then Actions) else do (Else Actions)
        • If - Conditions
          • ((Attacked unit) is in AnnihilationGroup) Equal to False
        • Then - Actions
          • Unit Group - Add (Attacked unit) to AnnihilationGroup
          • Trigger - Add to annihilation &lt;gen&gt; the event (Unit - (Attacked unit) Takes damage)
        • Else - Actions


Trigger:
  • annihilation clean
    • Events
      • Unit - A unit Dies
    • Conditions
      • ((Triggering unit) is in AnnihilationGroup) Equal to True
    • Actions
      • Unit Group - Remove (Triggering unit) from AnnihilationGroup


Trigger:
  • annihilation
    • Events
    • Conditions
      • ((Triggering unit) has buff Cold Arrows stacking (Stacking)) Equal to True
    • Actions
      • Set AnnihilationPoint = (Position of (Triggering unit))
      • Set AnnihilationTargets = (Units within (240.00 + (60.00 x (Real((Level of Cold Arrows for (Damage source)))))) of AnnihilationPoint)
      • Unit Group - Pick every unit in AnnihilationTargets and do (Actions)
        • Loop - Actions
          • If (All Conditions are True) then do (Then Actions) else do (Else Actions)
            • If - Conditions
              • ((Picked unit) is alive) Equal to True
              • (Picked unit) Not equal to (Triggering unit)
              • Or - Any (Conditions) are true
                • Conditions
                  • (Owner of (Picked unit)) Equal to Player 11 (Dark Green)
                  • (Owner of (Picked unit)) Equal to Player 12 (Brown)
            • Then - Actions
              • Unit - Cause (Damage source) to damage (Picked unit), dealing (Damage taken) damage of attack type Spells and damage type Normal
              • Special Effect - Create a special effect attached to the overhead of (Triggering unit) using Abilities\Spells\NightElf\SpiritOfVengeance\SpiritOfVengeanceBirthMissile.mdl
              • Special Effect - Destroy (Last created special effect)
            • Else - Actions
      • Custom script: call RemoveLocation(udg_AnnihilationPoint)
      • Custom script: call DestroyGroup(udg_AnnihilationTargets)


Basically that's the lazy way to do it, without going into a full damage detection system. Also asking that question made me notice a bug in the code which stopped the aoe from growing properly! :)
 

roXplosive

New Member
Well i have once used a bash ability to place a buff on units and a damage detection trigger , made it debug the name of the damage source and I need to say the damage source of the bash is nonhero so you can avoid splashing it . And also why don't you use
JASS:

set udg_DamageSource = GetEventDamageSource()
//.....
call UnitDamageTarget(udg_DamageSource , GetEnumUnit() , true , false , ATTACK_TYPE_HERO , DAMAGE_TYPE_NORMAL , WEAPON_TYPE_WHOKNOWS)
// I once got weird effects by destroying global groups so I suggest yo replace the groupdestroy with 
call GroupClear(udg_AnnihilationTargets)


I think ATTACK_TYPE_CHAOS would make sense and also saving the event's damaging unit into a global variable . I put the second boolean false because i am imagining how fun would be to make an endgame creep have defend that reflects 70% of missiles aimed to him back to attacker and getting reflected attacks from splash wouldn't be fun .

I got the impression that the splash radius wasn't increasing but nevermind that , the bonus damage from the ability is pretty decent (not as strong as channeled spells or active Concentration but still strong after you get the ability to level 6-7 . The con of using this is you have to let go of lifesteal but this is the charm and for me Multishot isn't very appealing because you have to give up powerful summons/spells/buffs to get it .

I also have a probably dumb question : why does Ki Ken Tai No Ichi grant spell immunity from what creeps get at you (i am not 100% sure but i think the shrine tornado still affects you ) and also slows the speed of an enemy that acquires you as target by more than 100% ? Is it intended and if so please fix the description ?
 

Sevion

The DIY Ninja
You don't need to clear groups.

All you have to do is use a single global group and do:

JASS:
function callback takes nothing returns boolean
    call UnitDamageTarget(udg_DamageSource , GetFilterUnit() , true , false , ATTACK_TYPE_HERO , DAMAGE_TYPE_NORMAL , WEAPON_TYPE_WHOKNOWS)
    return false
endfunction

function action takes nothing returns nothing
    set udg_DamageSource = GetDamageEventSource()
    call GroupEnumUnitsInWhateverYouWant(udg_AnnihilationTargets, otherarguments, Filter(function callback))
endfunction
 
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