[Discussion] SC2 Editor <<< W3 Editor

Jinxx

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I know there's been alot of talk about W3 dying after SC2 comes out (sometime mid-July?), and how map/mod makers will migrate to SC2 due to the unholy, leakless power of its editor, but frankly, after seeing the thing in action, I'm disappointed... :(

Sure, it's leakless (at least that's what they say), and you can customize just about anything, and the terrain tools are pretty and allow you to blend different tiles together seamlessly, but the data fields, the bread and butter of any editor, is insanely overcomplicated and cumbersome! :mad:

Granted, it wasn't easy to newcomers to get into W3 triggering, but just about anyone could play with the unit palette and easily customize heroes/units. To do more advanced things, you needed to learn triggering, but Blizz was smart enough to include GUI as a crutch/stepping stone. With this, people could make progress at their own pace, and it was damn fun! I remember how awesome it was learning to make heroes, then tweaking Storm Bolts and Command Auras, and finally, triggering, dummy units, etc. But with SC2 Edit, the thing just throws a brick in your face - it's like trying to learn friggin' AutoCAD (I had less trouble with ACAD than SC2 Edit, I shit you not)!

They kept yapping on and on how SC2 Edit will allow an extreme level of customization, but it seems that in their quest to do this, they actually f**cked up pretty badly - now it's impossible to do simple things like make unit copies/adjustments without modifying 10,000 different fields, which requires basically (re)testing the map 500x since most of the data fields have an almost arcane level of complexity to them... and don't get me started on the whole "actor" mechanic... yuck! :thdown:

What's the old proverb; "Don't fix it if it ain't broke!"?

I know this is just the beta version, but Blizz has never actively supported their editors (in fact, this is their policy), and it might just happen that we'll get stuck with the present version at launch. Unless they completely overhaul and fix the problems, I'm staying with W3. Sure, I'll play the SC2 Terran campaign, but after I get that out of my system, I'm going back to W3 mapping...

/end rant

Discuss?
 

Renendaru

(Evol)ution is nothing without love.
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Well, the Starcraft 2 Editor is meant for you to actually LEARN it, not play around and expect to get everything on the first run through.

On another note, I like the Starcraft 2 Editor more than the Warcraft 3 Editor, as the Warcraft 3 editor had issues with speed, editing, basic stuff. Which people accepted, as they got used to it. And that will eventually happen with Starcraft 2, as more and more people will find out tricks which will be documented and spread throughout communities, and it will be simple, in time.
 

Jinxx

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Well, the Starcraft 2 Editor is meant for you to actually LEARN it, not play around and expect to get everything on the first run through.

No, powerful != migrane-inducing! Something can be powerful and useful without being a disorganized mess. Learning the thing isn't a problem - rote memorization isn't the issue here. What I'm takling about is the sheer amount of time needed to do simple tasks like unit copying/tweaking.

Examples:

- W3: copy unit, edit unit's damage/Hp/range, etc... simple, effective
- SC2: copy, then modify 5,000 actors, then test, then re-test, etc.

Learning the editor is pretty simple, as it only takes a few hours to become familiar with the locations of most of the tabs, but image attempting to construct a campaign with it! In its present state? No thanks... :mad:
 

mapguy

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Ill wait for people to discover all bugs of SC3 editor before I use it.
I dont want to discover a bug after I have liki 500 triggers and than I have to come back and fix everything...

Ill continue with WC3 editor for more 1 or 2 years.
 

Laiev

Hey Listen!!
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@Mapguy
You mean sc2

@bowser499
limited? IN WHAT?!!!!!?!?!?!?!

really... you got the editor?

the only ""limitation"" is the editor in beta stage

you can change EVERYTHING in sc2.. wc3 you can 'morph' things... is totality different
 

bowser499

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@Laiev
You've understanded me wrong.
My friend got the editor and learns that stuff.
I said 'limited' because of that DAMN hardworking wth objects but the code natives are just uncountable =)
 

tooltiperror

Super Moderator
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Again, Blizzard disappoints us with a difficult to use World Editor, that will likely be supported poorly in the long run after the beta.

I'm waiting for WC4.
 

Laiev

Hey Listen!!
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@bowser499

this is true....

sc2 got about 51 tabs -_-' of object editor, i mean... Data
 

Renendaru

(Evol)ution is nothing without love.
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It wasn't.
But they did search for people to get a job working on it.

They have confirmed they WILL work on it, or at least are thinking to, but they've said that they will not work on it until stacraft 2 and its expansions are released, and about a year after that too.
 

Laiev

Hey Listen!!
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after sc2 expansion will start the 'saga' of diablo 3... announce and release of game... and MAYBE.... after everythings... warcraft 4 (because WoW already update)
 

NightShade

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I never really was a huge fan of SC and there are a lot of downgrades as well as upgrades from wc3. So if they haven't announced wc4 by the time all the expansions are out I might get it.

I haven't actually played around with the editor but If people can't get right in and start doing and changing things only people who bought sc2 with the thought of editing will really get into it. If blizz made a simple and advanced modes in the final release then that would be reeeally nice. :) mmhm.
 

Azylaminaz

Vox Populi
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The SC2 Editor makes me want to cry.

Ignoring the fact that it is over complicated, I did get what I wanted done for the most part... but there were things that just were irredeemable.

The entire publishing system was completely horrible. I couldn't even publish a map because of random errors (they gave me lovely explanations such as R3982HFDEUF2HF9DSU0F2JF028HFDSH9FSDFDS2433224FD).

And of course the issue with no way to directly code (not do GUI). I think the best option you had was with custom scripts... Luckily they were multi-lined this time. :D


Yeah, I'm bypassing SCII until they remove the cruddy publishing system.
 

Romek

Super Moderator
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I'm disappointed with the Starcraft 2 Editor; no direct galaxy code support is the biggest let down, I think.

I also agree with the data editor being tiresomely long to use; something as simple as changing the model of a unit takes an unnecessarily long amount of time.
 

Wummi

Just Relax and Smile!
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Again, Blizzard disappoints us with a difficult to use World Editor, that will likely be supported poorly in the long run after the beta.

I'm waiting for WC4.

I heard Blizzard isn't going to make a WC4 because:
1) There is the lovely WoW out there and they can just keep making expansions of it
2) Blizzard said that they believe WoW expansions will earn them way more money than making a WC4 (like they made 2 million on the first hour of the release of WotLK or something)
3) Blizzard is looking for the $$ to be made out of the games, And most likely, there are more players of WoW than WC3 thus WC4 will probably end up with less customers than an expansion of WoW

Very unfortunate.

I also have a question about the SC2 Editor:
1) If there are no heroes in Starcraft 2, then won't mapping be pretty limited? No Hero defenses, ORPGs, experience gaining, hero sieges etc? (I don't have SC2 editor nor have I played it yet, but I know Starcraft doesn't have heroes like WC does).
 
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