Evolution Discussion

[Mind]

Originally posted by Logical_1
Yes, but this energy ultimately had to come from somewhere.

Please stop asking questions I already answered.

Originally posted by Mind
The amount of energy in the universe always stays the same. You can't annihilate energy, nor can you create energy. You can, though, convert energy into another form of energy.

Originally posted by SD_Ryoko
As far as I can tell, it's a pygmy, and it's several thousand years old.
Yup! Its a pygmy hominid. An ancestor of humans, but prior to our current state. Perhaps you should look up pygmy & hominid. This does NOT support your argument. Being a pigmy does not mean it supports your concept. I suggest you drop that one.

What are you talking about? Please clarify what you mean.

pygmy

n 1: an unusually small individual [syn: pigmy] 2: any member of various peoples having an average height of less than five feet [syn: Pygmy, Pigmy]

Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University

Most probably, pygmies, whatever they are, also are descendents from amoebae.

Originally posted by SD_Ryoko
Please tell me how Evolutionists can date these things past 5000-50000? Carbon dating only goes back that far since:
Artical says argon gas.

I didn't claim that they dated anything.

Originally posted by SD_Ryoko
How did matter get so perfectly organized (the chances are way too small to point for it to take only 5 billion years, if at all)?
OMG. I have never head ANYONE say "hey, thats only five billion years"

What!? You believe that it's improbable that amoebae were coincidentally formed in the life-span of the universe?

Originally posted by SD_Ryoko
Basic elements don't think like that at all. They don't think a lot of things. Were intelligent - do we think like that? No.

Animals don't even know what the cause of reproduction is. We do, and we can prevent it.

Originally posted by SD_Ryoko
PLEASE EXPLAIN how Mr. Platapus trecked from aussie to Mt Ararat to get on the Ark? Scientists speculate it would take centuries, but not ONE fossil of them have been found in asia or and land mass in between.

They did not claim to strictly believe everything written in the bible, but to be monotheistic.

 

[SD_Ryoko]

Uh, Mind?

All my quotes were from Rinpun.

"I didn't claim that they dated anything." Now you confuse me. This wasn't directed torwards you anyway.

And Pigmy?

http://www.asu.edu/clas/iho/lucy.html

 

[Rinpun]

Fine, apparently I write too long for your minds, so I might just try to distinguish what answers your questions and what answers another's questions.

I don't understand why you think so, anyway. You bring it upon yourselves by asking so many questions for which you guys don't give a detailed answer whilst I do. Must I put it all in layman terms and therefore not get the point across?

---For Mind---

You didn't answer it, Mind.

HOW DID THE UNTRANSFORMED ENERGY GET THERE? Answer please!

So if we don't know how energy got there, we can't say that Evolution is correct now, can we? We'd have to grasp that we don't know everything about it yet, and therefore can't state that Evolution is completely true. You're going to have to BELIEVE the energy happened by chance, for there is no way you can tell at the current state.

And therefore, Evolution remains a theory. If you can't explain how the items that started the world exactly got there, then you can't go on to state many other pieces of the puzzle in unorganized bits. You will have to accept that everything was just "there", but then you can't say that God didn't exist, because he could have easily been that person enacting the creation of everything.

Christianity has its way with explaining. Whether you like it or not, it DOES state that what it does not know, it considers one of God's mysteries that will be either revealed or not. As far as Christians will believe, the Energy was created by God along with the Universe and the worlds and the beings living in said worlds. When you ask "who made God then?" the answer is no one. God has always existed and, not being a physical entity (which isn't comprehendable for humans), doesn't have to be created. This is only a minor point. You can't prove this whole statement right, since Christianity can't be proven right. It can't be proven wrong, however.

---For Ryoko---

My point is that pygmies still live today in Africa and they sure as heck not the "ancestors" you guys keep pointing them out as. Rather, they come from tribes that warred so much with their large people, the people ended up being forced to be smaller and smaller, for their biggest ones were sent off to fight and then usually die. Of course, if they don't fight each other so much anymore they can perhaps grow in size to normal Africans.

Their intelligence isn't any different. Take a pygmy baby and it will grow up like a midget, of course. It can learn like we can, and therefore, is NOT an ancestor. "It", if I dare call it so, as "it" is a human being and should therefore be treated so, is simply a human succumbing to constant war where the larger ones are favored. They have no extra hair, and they have no extra features, aside from height.

I was using Carbon Dating as an example. Argon goes into the millions range in half-life and therefore can succumb to yet even more inaccurate results. They dare say it's "accurate". Yeah, I suppose they could "accidentally" be off by 3 million years as to Lucy's dating?

But that doesn't change the duck entirely. Shorter ducks will achieve dominance in the flat ground where they don't have to bend down as much to eat and therefore eat faster and more efficiently, reproducing and outnumbering the longer necked ones, who might run out of food and die. This would all happen after and before the Flood. It is no biggy--shorter necked ducks are sometimes created by the longer necked, but they could die out before you could really make much of a record of them. And besides, what does this have to do with evolution? It's not like the duck had a rapid change in body. Stretching bones and muscles is INCREDIBLY easy. Getting rid of webbed feet so they can scratch at the ground for food--that would be difficult, stupid, and most likely not happening.

What's your question with the Platypus? It can swim and it eats things on the water, so it doesn't really need to be onboard the ark. Anyhow, I don't recall it stating exactly where Noah was, perhaps it was on Pangea (so all animals would be able to come) and the Flood broke the continents apart. It's not like the Bible bothered to state if there WERE continents.

 

[XXXconanXXX]

OK I haven't read this whole thing, but this is pissing me off.

I'm pretty much a dumbass and you can degrade my opinion, but I got something to say.

OK well, GOD DIDN'T CREATE THE FRIGGIN PLANETS! I STRONGLY beleive that he created the big bang, and THAT'S IT. I beleive he created a massive globe of energy far beyond our comprehension, and that created the universe. I do not beleive that god created the Earth or the universe, I beleive he created the the big bang that created the universe. I think that he did intend to create a universe and that he created the big bang to create the universe for people who try and twist my explanation.

Also, how can something like that create something like our Solar System? There is evidence out there thats tates our universe was created from gases that cfirst created the sun, then the gases started swirling at very high speeds, which formed rock and slammed into eachother making the planets.

I'm not going to say anything about the Bible because I'm not completely sure if ALL OF IT actually happened, or if it was more of a metaphore.

You keep asking us for evidence, where is your evidence huh? You have explained about the pygmys in Africa, but I don't see any evidence on that either.

Animals don't think at all, if they did, they would've eventually evolved into greater beings with more knowledge. If theyt hought, they'd be where we are today. Animals were created for humjan beings, and don't think about what to do, all they do is use innate senses.

One last thing, I am not saying that evolution is exactly what happened, as we don't have hard evidence to back it up. WE do however, have common sense and by looking at what has happened and what we have studied, we can come upw ith very good explanations for things, instead of being dumbasses and saying ridiculous things JUST BECAUSE we don't have hard evidence.

 

[1JadedJen]

The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the World he didn't exist.
-Usual Suspects

and like that
he's gone


~for your sake i hope heaven and hell are really there, but i wouldn't hold my breath

 

[Rinpun]

*Is contemplating exactly how intelligible conan sounded...that is, not very*

 

[XXXconanXXX]

Yes, I told you before, I am a dumbass...

 

[SD_Ryoko]

Damnit! I been saying that all along!

(LOL sorry conan, just playin )

 

[SD_Ryoko]

Originally posted by Rinpun
What's your question with the Platypus? It can swim and it eats things on the water, so it doesn't really need to be onboard the ark. Anyhow, I don't recall it stating exactly where Noah was, perhaps it was on Pangea (so all animals would be able to come) and the Flood broke the continents apart. It's not like the Bible bothered to state if there WERE continents.

Man - That would NEVER hold up in court, you know it.

One continent...platypus can come...poor bastard almost got left behind *tear*

So the platypus gets on the Arc... and ALL the other animals are thinking... "what the hell is that?" Freak! Back of the arc!

 

[Rinpun]

I fail to see what you're aiming at Ryoko

All I see is that your racist against Platypi, and that makes me sad

 

[Mind]

Originally posted by Rinpun
HOW DID THE UNTRANSFORMED ENERGY GET THERE? Answer please!

I will not answer this question. You simply ignore the answer, anyway.

Originally posted by Rinpun
So if we don't know how energy got there, we can't say that Evolution is correct now, can we? We'd have to grasp that we don't know everything about it yet, and therefore can't state that Evolution is completely true. You're going to have to BELIEVE the energy happened by chance, for there is no way you can tell at the current state.

My theory concerning the birth of the universe is not relevant to the Theory of Evolution. Please don't confuse the subjects.

Originally posted by Rinpun
And therefore, Evolution remains a theory. If you can't explain how the items that started the world exactly got there, then you can't go on to state many other pieces of the puzzle in unorganized bits. You will have to accept that everything was just "there", but then you can't say that God didn't exist, because he could have easily been that person enacting the creation of everything.

You claim that the universe was never born? You claim to be more intelligent than Stephen Hawking?

Originally posted by Rinpun
Christianity has its way with explaining. Whether you like it or not, it DOES state that what it does not know, it considers one of God's mysteries that will be either revealed or not. As far as Christians will believe, the Energy was created by God along with the Universe and the worlds and the beings living in said worlds. When you ask "who made God then?" the answer is no one. God has always existed and, not being a physical entity (which isn't comprehendable for humans), doesn't have to be created. This is only a minor point. You can't prove this whole statement right, since Christianity can't be proven right. It can't be proven wrong, however.

I fully agree that religion can't be proven wrong.

Intriguing. As far as we know, energy was not born. Accommodating to what Christians believe, God wasn't born either.

How bizarre. How peculiar. Modern Christian religion is, in fact, extremely similar to scientology.

Originally posted by XXconanXXX
OK well, GOD DIDN'T CREATE THE FRIGGIN PLANETS! I STRONGLY beleive that he created the big bang, and THAT'S IT. I beleive he created a massive globe of energy far beyond our comprehension, and that created the universe. I do not beleive that god created the Earth or the universe, I beleive he created the the big bang that created the universe. I think that he did intend to create a universe and that he created the big bang to create the universe for people who try and twist my explanation.

Human scientists do not know for certain how energy assembled in such way, that it eventually caused matter to be created somehow. I believe that any sort of energy, not specifically matter, can bend space and, in this matter, cause gravity. If this theory is true, then it explains the existence of the universe.

Originally posted by XXconanXXX
Animals don't think at all, if they did, they would've eventually evolved into greater beings with more knowledge. If theyt hought, they'd be where we are today. Animals were created for humjan beings, and don't think about what to do, all they do is use innate senses.

You think that animals have no cerebral cortex? The contrary has been proven by neurologists and biologists, hypocrite.

Originally posted by XXconanXXX
Yes, I told you before, I am a dumbass...

I'm certain your intelligence is well above the average.

Originally posted by XXconanXXX
Damnit! I been saying that all along!

(LOL sorry conan, just playin )

Although your only pretending to find Conan unintelligent, you did, although unintentionally, just affect his sense of inferiority slightly.

 

[Rinpun]

No, you're just sidestepping the question. Are you too believing in everything happening by chance to agree with "Big Bang" and say that the energy just appeared one day, by a finger snap of a strange being or not?

They are perfectly relevant! Evolution needs to start somewhere!

I claim the universe was born. Not by chance, but by the will of a Creator. Simple.

Hawking? Where'd you draw that conclusion?

 

[Mind]

Sigh.

It's scientifically proven that energy can't be created or destroyed. I've already said that many times.

Originally posted by Rinpun
They are perfectly relevant! Evolution needs to start somewhere!

Very logical.
Accomodating to your speech, the natural evolution started at the same time matter was created.

 

[Logical_1]

It's scientifically proven that energy can't be created or destroyed.

Lots of things that have been "scientifically" proven to be true in a given time have been disproved at a later time, so why limit yourself by saying this when science simply cannot explain all of the things that exist in the universe and when science itself evolves as new methods of testing theories and hypotheses become available to scientists.

On the other hand, the existence of God has never been disproved and there are many things that are unexplainable by science that could very easily be explained by the presence of an omnipresent being that has the power to create and destroy life or modify the universe and everything in it as He sees fit.

Sure, it's easy for you to sit there and spout off "scientific" fact by saying the "energy cannot be created or destroyed", but that presupposes that we (humankind/science) know everything about how the universe works, which as any good scientist will tell you, we have very little understading of. Now until you do become God and have all of the knowledge that goes with that, perhaps you should qualify any statements that you make regarding what is "scientifically" fact with the phrase "in theory", because you do not have all the answers and nor does any "scientist" on this earth.

 

[SD_Ryoko]

Originally posted by Logical_1
On the other hand, the existence of God has never been disproved and there are many things that are unexplainable by science that could very easily be explained by the presence of an omnipresent being that has the power to create and destroy life or modify the universe and everything in it as He sees fit.

Small comment...

When the egyptians could not explain things like the sun, moon, and ocean by science, they followed this idea and had a God for each one.

Yet in the end, they were seriously mistaken.

 

[Mind]

Originally posted by Logical_1
Lots of things that have been "scientifically" proven to be true in a given time have been disproved at a later time, so why limit yourself by saying this when science simply cannot explain all of the things that exist in the universe and when science itself evolves as new methods of testing theories and hypotheses become available to scientists.

That is mostly untrue; Only theories, which were not scientifically proven, were disproved later. Or contradicted by other unproven theories.

Originally posted by Logical_1
On the other hand, the existence of God has never been disproved and there are many things that are unexplainable by science that could very easily be explained by the presence of an omnipresent being that has the power to create and destroy life or modify the universe and everything in it as He sees fit.

Religion and science are entirely different ways of explaining the existence of the universe.
Thus, it is, obviously, impossible to disprove religion scientifically, or to disprove science religiously.

Originally posted by Logical_1
Sure, it's easy for you to sit there and spout off "scientific" fact by saying the "energy cannot be created or destroyed", but that presupposes that we (humankind/science) know everything about how the universe works, which as any good scientist will tell you, we have very little understading of.

You accuse me to be haughty, unintelligent and simple-minded enough to claim that I know everything about the universe?!

Originally posted by Logical_1
Now until you do become God and have all of the knowledge that goes with that, perhaps you should qualify any statements that you make regarding what is "scientifically" fact with the phrase "in theory", because you do not have all the answers and nor does any "scientist" on this earth.

I'm less imperceptive then you might believe. You clearly was suggesting that I claim to be omniscient.

Originally posted by SD_Ryoko
Small comment...

When the egyptians could not explain things like the sun, moon, and ocean by science, they followed this idea and had a God for each one.

Yet in the end, they were seriously mistaken.

Interestingly enough, superstition was reduced as the knowledge and enlightenment of society grew. Now, most religious people believe that God created the Big Bang.

It's strange that we always talk about the Big Bang, as if only one universe exists.

 

[SD_Ryoko]

Originally posted by Rinpun
I fail to see what you're aiming at Ryoko

All I see is that your racist against Platypi, and that makes me sad

Huh? Its simple.

1. Platy is evolutionary wonder.

2. The story of the arc, and the platy even being able to make it over there, is proposterous. Scientists speculate it would take the platy almost two centuries to swim there. Yet, no bones or fossiles of platy's have been found on ANY other land that australia.

God creating an animal with reptile eggs, mammal body, and birds feet / bill is similar to, the mad scientist in south park who engineered the five a$$ed monkey.

I think you chose not to understand my post.

Originally posted by Mind
It's strange that we always talk about the Big Bang, as if only one universe exists.

Big bang is speculation as well, and Idea. I also find this unlikely, that an entire universe went 'BANG' and was created.

Thats like not understanding the internet, so a big BANG, the internet was created. Its an easy-way-out.

Behond, my five butted monkey.

 

[Mind]

I also am slightly dubious about the truth of the the theory of The Big Bang. I doubt that black holes could explode under their own weight.

The theory of The Big Bang isn't simplistic, though; It is more complicated then you explained.

Supposedly, the very first bits of matter which were shaped had a tremendously huge gravity, despite their incredibly small size, because there was still very little mass.
Thus, any subatomair particle which was accidentally created was immediately drawn to the previously created subatomair particles and vice versa, until an massive globe was formed…

 

[SD_Ryoko]

This ties into my previous statement.

I just watched Aliens vs Predator the first time, and have learned that the pyramids were created by the Predator, in which they use as a gladiators game and hunting grounds. I also learned the Predator had influence on the ancient cultures.

Now, this overthrows the idea that the stargate Goauld created the pyramids, but we must adapt as new discoveries are made.

I am also pleased to see the debate between alien and predator end. CLEARLY from this documentary, the alien was inferior and a slave to the predator, since before the ice age.

NOW. Taken that the Predator, and the ancient culters, lived in antartica before it was frozen over, it must have been before the ice age. Yet the arciologists who discovered the find, did not find any platypus bones, which means he was not over there.

So the big question is - did creationism create the Predator? Or the Alien?

Do you think the Predator ever killed a platy? Much deep questions.

Small comment...

When the egyptians could not explain things like the sun, moon, and ocean by science, they followed this idea and had a God for each one.

Yet in the end, they were seriously mistaken.

 

[XXXconanXXX]

BWAHAHAHAHAA *tear*. This brings up a good point. Actually, the pyramids came to existence from monkeys that were flying out of my a$$ that called forth the predator which created them.