Evolution Discussion

Shadowy Fear

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The Muffins are coming! The Muffins are coming!

Ill go to the local deli shop, one sale sign if They come by oven, two sale signs if they come by microwave.

The Muffins are coming! The Muffins are coming!

Run ... flee fools ... for the Master Of The Muffins approaches.



That would be a cool game huh lol :D
 

BrokenX

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Uhm, that would be conans next game me and you will force him to obey our commands to make a cheesey yet cool muffin type rpg game LOL. With some ... thinking? And thought it could be very interesting.


BrokenX
 

Shadowy Fear

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No with some BAKING sheesh.

And to stay relatively back on track (this whole post is so completely unrelated to warcraft that its laughable when it DOES discuss religous and evolutionary viewpoints) evolution occurs VERY slowly. Perosnally I dont believe the punctuated equilibra theory; just because you cant find the intermediate forms doesnt meant that they dont exist! Maybe aliens took them, or giant muffins ..... :p :D Huge changes like blood would NEVER EVER occur overnight; it took billions of years just to get past the bacterial stage. Evolution has slowed somewhat today, as humans are busily going about preerving the way things were; animals that would have died are rehabilited (along with their flaws) and sent back into the wild, to survive and perhaps reproduce, unless their flaws limit that last part. Bacteria started out by gaining a nucleus; THEN they gradually became more complex, then multicellular, then blablablablablablablablablabla *types blablabla so many times that former Shadowy Fear loses brain function and lurches over keyboard drooling and spasming; replacement comes and ends data loop of blablabla and continues typing*

we have modern animals.

And another thing; if evolution didnt happen, then WHERE THE %&*(#&%#%^#%^%*#*%#^*)%^$*)&&^[email protected]^%)((%^&))#$& *replacement continues typing for some time, gradually fingers heat up from friction of keyboard, runs out of room screaming. The SECOND replacement {this is NOT a transmission from a secure muffin stronghold where shadowy fear was kidnapped and forced to type and where the muffins are even now NOT plotting to take over the universe} continued typing after)HAVE HUMANS BEEN FOR OVER THREE POINT BILLION YEARS? I mean, it took us hundreds of thousands of years to get to where we are now... WHAT HAPPENED ALL THOSE OTHER YEARS?????? Of course, we might have been overtyped into drooling idocy by the muffins; this is NOT happening right now we um I mean I can assure you. :D :D :D :D :p :p :p :p
 

Shadowy Fear

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Just an interesting story that explains our creation in a scientific, yet still plausible, and TOTALLY original :D

Imagine this: you are a member highly advanced civilization, who have dominated the stars for hundreds of thousands of years. You have very advanced ships at your disposal, although you have yet to expand out of a star cluster, where the radiation is so intense around the edges that even you cant get out - yet. You are almost at the point where you can manage the radiation levels, when your home star goes into a pre - supernova phase. Uh - oh. All ships and aliens are recalled inward in a desperate attempt to stop the star from going supernova. Using your advanced alien technology, your comrades have almost succeded in stopping the supernova, when misguided alien insurgents hijack the very ships that were trying to stop the supernova and launch them straight into the doomed star. Bad mistake. The entire star, so unstable already, explodes outward with unbelievable force, instantly reducing your home planet and friends and family to sub - atomic particles. All ships were recalled inward, and hence all ships were destroyed --- that is all ships except for yours, which was returning from an expedition to the edge of the star cluster. You see the star flare into supernova, obliberating everything you once knew and loved, but are powerless to stop it. Suppressing your alien emotions of despair, you try and figure out how to survive. The energy from the supernova is rushing towards you at blinding speed; you have less than one minute to make a descision. The gravitic power of the supernova blasts through your ship before the energy does; your ships shields take most of the impact, but your ship gets tossed through the cosmic backdrop like a soccer ball; around 20 seconds later, you finally regain control of your ship. Shaken and very frantic, you suddenly see an opening for escape; a chance for life. The gravitic wave disrupted the orbits of several stars that made up the star clusters, and now there is a large opening between a trio of them that is spaced apart from the stars just enough that you might be able to survive the radiation the stars are emitting; you have no time to make another descision, as the supernova's deadly hand is about to crunch your aliens windpipe, and with that, the last records of your civilization. You speed through the opening, but as you enter the very center area of the gap, you begin to feel dizzy; radiation is bombarding you, and the ships controls are blinking like a neon light in a power surge. You are almost through, almost there, when the supernova catches up with your ship, accelerates it at near light speed across the heavans, slams you into unconciousness, and gives you the ultimate galactic rollercoaster. At last, after some time, you regain conciousness, but realize that you are doomed; the life support systems are sporadically turning on and off, and the ships sensors inform you that the radiation has entered your battered body in sufficient quanities to ensure that you won't survive for a very long period of time. Your vision becomes fuzzier as you try and make sense of your situation. Suddenly, a spark courses through your body as you realize that you are staring at a world! Calling upon your vast willpower, you are able to scan the planet enough to realize that it can support life. An idea flashes through your head --- although you are doomed, you can still leave a record of your civilization, and create another one on top of that. Using the last of your energy, you take a cell sample from yourself, place it in a specilized pod, and launch it into the primordial atmosphere of Earth. As you begin transferring the records of your civilization into a special containment long lasting protection pod, an ill - fated asteroid comes hurtling up from beneath the lower rim of the planet, unnoticed to you. Your last memory is of fire, and ruin, and death ... your job was half completed, and you have created a new saga of life, and ... and ... there is only the black oblivion ...


THE END

Hope you liked my little story here :D I should copy it into the literary thread lol :p
Lets just ignore the whole 'evolution' thing for a moment lol :D
 
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Marksman

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Shouldn't that go in the writing thread?

Lol, if that is a story to explain the start of Earth, you forgot one thing. You didn't explain how the alien race started.
 

Shadowy Fear

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Oh the alien race? They were originally a race of spacefaring muffin lords. (has conan discovered our true origins?)
 
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Marksman

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Heres what I don't get. There are billions of types of other animals on this planet. And yet humans are the only ones who have devolped civilization, and the arts, and religion. In other words, we have superior intelligence. I don't want to hear this crap about animals actually being smarter because they don't destroy their enviroments, or having secret communications we don't understand. Humans are the superior race of the planet and we all know it. Question is, why doesn't any other animal even come close? Is it like the creationsists say, did God choose humans as his chosen people? If so, why are we destroying our planet, why are we capable of hatred and violence more so than any other animal?

I'm in a questioning mood today.
 

XXXconanXXX

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I know someone is going to attack me for this, but here's what I think.

Humans are the superior race of the planet becuase God made us in his eyes, and animals were made for us. Animals are here to serve the purpose of keeping us company, entertaining us, and to give us food and nutrients. It's also to balance out the Earth, becuase if you remove one species from the food chain, the whole planet would go unbalanced. A certain animal would become overpopulated, plants might become to scarce, etc.

We destroy our own planet and have these bad feelings because we are not robots - we have free will. If we were not able to feel hatred or be violent, would we still be considered to have a free will? We're learning to cut down on chemicals and go with more natural ways of fueling cars, houses, and structures, but that takes time. If we just say "F' it, we're destroying everything that runs on chemicals or anything that can harm the Earth" then we'd have a huge problem.
 

DM Cross

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The first part I'm not too sure I agree with, but I promise I won't jump at you about it. :)

The second part makes a lot of sense. Why do we destroy our planet? Well, we didn't exactly know it at first, in a lot of cases. Look at something simple, like....Hmm...Paint! :D We used to use lead in paint, and we eventually learned that was dangerous, and I'm pretty sure you're not allowed to buy/make lead based paints anymore. We had a bad start, that's the big thing. That, and the world's seemingly ineptitude to learn change. Some people are so set in their ways of slowly destroying their own home, they'll never change, but we have to just make those changes, so that the world can eventually get a little better...

So yeah, I agree on the second part, basically! :p
 
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ThE-eNiGmA

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Has anybody even considered the thought that the reason why there are no other truly sentient lifeforms is because we killed all other competitors? Neanderthals and a whole other line of Homo s disappeared way back when. Aside from the we killling part, we are just plain lucky. There hasn't been any Earth-ending natural diasters in our history(if there were...I wouldn't be typing this right now ;) ).

As for for why there are no other intellligences along other animal lines, the answer is...we are an aberration. If you think about things from an evolutionary standpoint, intelligence wasn't all that useful a thing to have. Sure, predatory instincts were finely honed, but not much more was needed. If you already had tooth and claw and far more efficient modes of transportation, what do you need a big ol' brain for? We had none of those advantages.

Evolution hasn't been proven, huh? Open your eyes. As mentioned early by lots of others, it IS something you can observe...if you can a.) live long enough, or b.)in the case of bacteria, have the patience to study the changes. Besides, it really does make sense, and explains why humans are so varied. One major concept that needs to be grasped about evolution is that it is pretty much RANDOM. Mutations or interesting gene combinations are pretty common: most don't have an effect in the long run. The ones that do just tip the odds, good or bad. The bad
tend to be weeded out, though not always.

I would like to point out a possible reason why so many Africans have sickle-cell anemia. Something that would seem a bane in most non-tropical areas turns out to be a boon in areas of Africa. You see, the disease apparently gives a resistence to malaria, something that kills otherwise healthy people. And thus, sickle cell anemia spreads through natural selection.

I am an athiest, but I do believe in a few concepts. Everything is a matter of perception, nothing is EVER simple, all factors as can be possibly considered should be considered, and that science is the body of what we believe we KNOW.
There are no absolutes...we all live in our own versions of reality that overlap. It may not be perfect, but it isn't supposed to be. If something is wrong, we test it, test it again, so on and so forth until we decide that it is either not likely to be true or likely to be true.

If I seem to be rambling, that is because my brain is short-circuiting. I just don't like it when evolution is dismissed because of it being a "theory" (btw, gravity is technically a "theory" too...we can't see what causes it either) or from simple ignorance (no offense intended.) If you don't like evolution, just think of this: it is the best explanation we have for explaining why life is the way it is, nevermind the origins. It has nothing to do with religion, and should'nt presume to. The problem is that people interpret it one way or another and pick battlegrounds.
 

Rinpun

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It being the "best explanation" would be your opinion, I presume, enigma, not a fact....
 

Shadowy Fear

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Nicely put :D

Yes, we humans have gotten EXTREMELY lucky in that a stray comet or meteor or supervolcano eruption or muffin invasion or ... nvm lol :p you get the idea ANYWAYS we are very fortunate that no RECENT natural diasters have wiped us out ---- did you know that a group of pigmy like primates (NOT humans; there is sufficient enough skeletal evidence to prove that) existed on an island off the coast of India less than 500 years ago? Along with an entire structure of animals; elephants the size rhinos, and rats the size of dogs (shudders : P) Id suggest those interested google it lol : ) it is rather interesting.
You know, I have a tendancy for reviving threads that nobody has posted in for months lol : ) :p
I DO disagree with conan, but im not going to cut him down for it :p :D

Actually, the most common theory is that homeo sapiens current intelligence derived from SOCIAL BEHAVIOR. True, calculating the square root of pi probably wont save you from being devoured by a mountain lion, but social group behavior can. Also --- other primates groom other members of their group. Humans developed a better way for this --- talking. You can 'groom' multiple members of the pack or whatever through talking, and this reinforces social behavior, which is probably why humanity survived (did you know that at one time, there were less than 10,000 humans alive in the entire earth :eek: ?!). Hopefully, humans will eventually realize that if we continue or society as it is, overreproduction, pollution, etc. will destroy us? Either that or colonize mars, lol :p! *sniff sniff* poor neanderthals lol :p guess god wasnt in a good mood that day lol. Eventually, Homeo sapiens will gain the technology needed to prevent asteriod collisions and supervolcanic eruptions (did you know that yellowstone is the largest supervolcano on EARTH, and will possibly erupt during some of our lifetimes, blotting out the sun, destroying the food chain from the bottom up (poor vegatarians theyll be the first to go lol) etc.). If not, then we will be either another failed civilization or the whim of a bored god ... lol : )
 

Rinpun

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Hahaha, very amusing SF :D

But, it shouldn't be surprising that there was, at one time, less than 10000 humans. No matter what you believe, this should always be the case as it makes sense. Christanity view is that God started with a couple and they branched out and intermarried into a gigantic culture. Evolutionist view is that some sort of cell thing (which I don't understand is possible, but eh. I'll just disagree in this regard) grew "lucky" and developed premature ears and eyes and nose and whatever over time and broke off of an ape's evolutionary tree--that there would only be a few of these special organisms around capable of creating the human race. That part is obvious and makes sense, the only question is how did all of these pieces of equipment evolve. I have asked this question over and over and I have yet to see an answer from ANY of the hundreds of boards I've posted this in. How did an ear evolve? How did an eye evolve? Well, anyway, ciao for now.
 
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ThE-eNiGmA

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And herein lies my frustration. Alot of the points you just raised, with the exception of the island, I am already aware of. You have been watching Sci-fi and Discovery, haven't you? What is it with this month, Natural and Biblical Disasters? I knew about Yellowstone a year ago.*btw, i forgot to mention one additional intelligent species...dolphins.*

I wish I could include everything I know into one little page...but I can't. And yes, rinpun, it is an opinion...from my point of view, everything is opinion...and thus B&#@!...but the question is..which [email protected]%# do you buy? Yes, Shadowy, our intelligence did arise as part of a social network. But why did we have such a network? We couldn't do much else.

Anybody who think's the human race is some divine creation, in my opinion, needs to wake up. Speaking from experience (just about every sense in my body except touch is flawed in some way...I have hearing aids, contacts, I partially inherited my mom's lack of smell, and thus lack of taste...) The human body is riddled with extraneous equipment. We have muscles that we dont need anymore...but one of the only possible uses for them would be swinging in the trees... And then, what about tailbones....TAILBONES!!! Man, I wish I had a tail. I am going to go to a sensitive topic right here, but there is the nature of female breasts. They are NOT necessary for milk production, just the nips. Actually, the breasts can hinder feeding. (btw, i hope i didn't cross a line) Why do women have them? If you are a man, you should not have to think any farther.

From appendixes (ok, we had a use for those...once, i think) to long hair on our heads, we have dubious mismatches of parts. Here is an interesting question that
I have yet to hear a satisfactory answer for...why have we lost all our body hair? We must of had it at some point. We still do...but it is very thin. As a species, there are a lot of oddities, some of which I can't mention here.

The only way I can see it is if things were random. I actually find it comforting to know that someone like me was created by relatively random interaction of many, many factors, from genes to possible events during or after pregnancy.
(edit) I was typing this for a while.. i was responding to shadowy fear and the supa volcano
 
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ThE-eNiGmA

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Ahh... let's have fun now, shall we? How did an ear evolve, or an eye evolve? You start off with the basics. If you look at cells, they have very basic parts that can mirror the function of more advance organs. Some cells have "eyes" that detect light.
I don't think they have ears...but I dont think they need them either. Gradually they become more focused, better at what they do. Unfortunately, I can't answer the really complex problem...how do you make the jump from simple to complex.

Here is a thought....evolution explains the variety in the world. Other, smaller species reproduce much faster and evolve quicker. That is why there are so many bugs...and countless more bacteria. Larger and more development intensive species require more time, and thus don't evolve as much. Our brains...make our development much longer. Oh, and while im discussing head sizes, they are the reason why human women have so much trouble giving birth in comparison to the animals.
 

Rinpun

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I'm not going to reply to all that until you decide to actually answer that question instead of sidestepping it like a clown to his pie. It has to happen sometime, right? :)
 
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ThE-eNiGmA

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You are assuming that there is an answer for everything. If it isn't with evolution, it is within the field of religion. That is the "either/or fallacy" and is rather limiting. What evolution is, it is a way of explaining how things came to be. I am probably repeating myself here, but it does not deal with the issue of God and the creation of the universe. People just assume it does. But the evidence is right there in front of us. People change, animals change. Change is inevitable...until it all dies. But until then...

Perhaps you should look at it this way. Evolution is an idea created by humans. It is something WE developed, a theory to better understand our universe. It is a reflection of the sum total of our knowledge. To dismiss evolution as a mere theory is
to say that all that people have worked for, not necessarily scientists, to explain the way things are without resorting to theological dogma is a load of hogwash. That doesn't sit well with me. Right now it is the best we have, and until someone comes up with something even better (HIGHLY unlikely, if you ask me...which you didn't) that is what I will accept. And even then, it had better be pretty well supported.

As for the evasion, what can I say? I don't presume to have all the answers. The Bible, on the other hand, is believed by many to have all the answers they will ever need. Good for them (and good riddance), for I try to keep an open mind to the mysteries to the universe, but I don't believe something without sufficient proof.
 

DM Cross

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Satan from the movie End of Days said:
Let me tell you something about Him. He is the biggest underachiever of all time! He's just a good publicist. Something good happens, it's His will. Something bad happens, He works in mysterious ways! And you look in that pile of crap they call the bible, and what do they tell you? Shit happens!
Sorry, but that was needed! :D

Anyway, Enigma, people try to understand how they came about to find their history...And you know what they say about history, learn from it or you're doomed to repeat it. I don't know how that'd work with evolution (except evolving in the wrong direction) but I'm just trying to make sense! :D Basically, people are just naturally curious. They're not trying to limit the possibilities with theories, naw, merely CREATE possibilities with speculation.

Alexander
Liberate your mind
-Disturbed, Liberate, Believe CD
 
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ThE-eNiGmA

Guest
Whoa, are you assuming that I dont understand the origins of religion? I am very aware of that. The problem is, many of the reasons that religions were needed are no longer relevant. The candle burns brighter than ever before, and the shadows not quite so long...though with the knowledge of all the @#[email protected] that can happen to us...like supervolcanoes, asteroids, nukes, ...i dont know if i can really say the shadows are shorter. Btw, i remember the Hitchhiker's guide...that section about the Babel fish is hilarious.

I didn't say that people are trying to limit possibilities with theories, but that theories are the speculation, the imaginative power of the modern human. I guess I can say that religion is now the past...there is so much to look for in the future.
 

DM Cross

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Hmm, in that aspect (religion) I suppose you're right, most people today are NOT very religious. I myself am, but my religion isn't very popular (or very understood, either) so I guess I can't speak for other people...

Alexander
 
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