Evolution

[vypur85]

Evolution has NOTHING to do with theories regarding how the universe began.

QFT.

Evolution exists...

Evolution is how an organism change through time to adapt to its surroundings. And this change involves very much on gene expressions (DNA stuff). It's how genes expressed that determine whether an organism would have specific traits like light sensitive cells, thick skin, fur, etc etc...

If we take 2 different organisms but of same ancestral line, their gene similarity would be very very similar. Take chimps and humans for example. They have almost ~97-99% gene similarity. But why are they so different physically? Evolution. Somehow, along their lifetime, there are some mutations which caused a little alteration of DNA and thus resulting in change. And this change, usually allows better adaptation to surroundings.

Another simpler explanation in evolution is by using antibiotic. You know when you have sore throat, doctors prescribe antibiotics? You should also realise that there is always a 'finish the medication' note. This is because if you don't finish the prescription, the bugs may evolve to be resistant to the meds, and in future, your sore throat will be harder to cure.

And, evolution is almost always involving the surroundings of the organism. So, in my opinion, God has got nothing much to do with how the way they evolve. God don't make bacteria to be stronger to be able to resist antibiotic. It's the antibiotic that drives the bugs to survive in unfavourable environment thus resulting in evolution. But this doesn't mean that God does not exist. It's the belief that counts.

Spoiler

Bananas have ~50% gene similarity to humans. So we are half banana . Or banana is half human.

 

[NoxMortus]

But the odd thing about Evolution is that there are too many holes of information we're missing. Thus, I don't believe it a bit.

What are these holes of information we're missing?

Also note that there is no evidence that goes against the theory of Evolution, and there's vast evidence that supports it.

 

[Ninva]

Also note that there is no evidence that goes against the theory of Evolution, and there's vast evidence that supports it.

I then wonder if magic could be scientifically analyzed. Maybe blessings and enchants can be created upon people. But that seems silly now, doesn't it?

A few years back, an organization picked up a charred tree and gave it to several universities for carbon dating. Each school came back with results that the charred tree is over 700 hundred to around or over 5,000 years old. The charred tree was about twelve years old, from what I can remember.

Another occurrence was when a small Mayan statue was tested. It dated back 600 years ago. This wasn't expected for the Mayan people were much older than that (the rock was contaminated). Thus carbon dating does have holes that are now being recognized, so when a dinosaur bone is tested to be over 100,000 years old, I wonder if that is the true age of the bone. How do the scientists know that the whole bone hasn't been contaminated by some unknown element?

Evolution has everything to do with the beginning of the universe because if nature had to create itself, then the universe had to create nature. Unless you want to give up your fight about God not creating nature, and say he created the universe. Think! Where in the hell did all that matter come from? Nothing is nothing. Our minds, ourselves, our lives all came from nothing: the abstract material that lacks all tangible material. The only thing who could make us from an abstract thing is a god.

I also wonder. How is logic possible in a spontaneous world? If everything is by chance and moment, then how is there order? Supposedly there's a consist order to nature, which to me sounds like an excuse to avoid the word Mother Earth. Evolution should just be a religion along with Christianity, Judaism, and Islam because no one knows how everything began or was created. We, human beings, have the same evidence, but we look at it in a totally different perspective.

 

[NoxMortus]

I then wonder if magic could be scientifically analyzed. Maybe blessings and enchants can be created upon people. But that seems silly now, doesn't it?

I have NO idea what you're talking about here... If you have evidence for magical enchants, by all means let us see it!

A few years back, an organization picked up a charred tree and gave it to several universities for carbon dating. Each school came back with results that the charred tree is over 700 hundred to around or over 5,000 years old. The charred tree was about twelve years old, from what I can remember.

Source or it never happened.

Another occurrence was when a small Mayan statue was tested. It dated back 600 years ago. This wasn't expected for the Mayan people were much older than that (the rock was contaminated). Thus carbon dating does have holes that are now being recognized, so when a dinosaur bone is tested to be over 100,000 years old, I wonder if that is the true age of the bone. How do the scientists know that the whole bone hasn't been contaminated by some unknown element?

Source, again..

Also, carbon dating =/= Evolutionary theory

Evolution has everything to do with the beginning of the universe

No, no it doesn't.

Cosmology & Astrophysics =/= Evolution/Biology.

Think! Where in the hell did all that matter come from? Nothing is nothing. Our minds, ourselves, our lives all came from nothing: the abstract material that lacks all tangible material. The only thing who could make us from an abstract thing is a god.

Off-topic for a debate about Evolution.

I also wonder. How is logic possible in a spontaneous world? If everything is by chance and moment, then how is there order? Supposedly there's a consist order to nature, which to me sounds like an excuse to avoid the word Mother Earth.

Everything is by chance? Evolution is not based on chance.

'How is there order?' What do you mean by 'order' exactly?

Evolution should just be a religion along with Christianity, Judaism, and Islam because no one knows how everything began or was created. We, human beings, have the same evidence, but we look at it in a totally different perspective.

The difference is, science uses evidence to further it's theories and expand the knowledge of mankind. The religions you stated hold on to dark-age beliefs and do not budge no matter what the evidence shows.

 

[phyrex1an]

Another occurrence was when a small Mayan statue was tested. It dated back 600 years ago. This wasn't expected for the Mayan people were much older than that (the rock was contaminated). Thus carbon dating does have holes that are now being recognized, so when a dinosaur bone is tested to be over 100,000 years old, I wonder if that is the true age of the bone. How do the scientists know that the whole bone hasn't been contaminated by some unknown element?

Carbon dating can't be used for ages above ~100.000 years so it isn't used to date dinosaur fossils.

 

[Ninva]

I don't have the sources to support my claims. I'd look around for the magazine article though.

Carbon dating can't be used for ages above ~100.000 years so it isn't used to date dinosaur fossils.

I didn't know that. Oh well, it was just an example.

 

[winkles]

I don't have the sources to support my claims. I'd look around for the magazine article though.

Then why would you say it? cos it just looks like you are spouting bs.
I would also like you to answer NoxMortus' question about the holes in the evolutionary theory cos I'm interested in hearing what you have to say.

 

[Dr.Jack]

> Then why would you say it? cos it just looks like you are spouting bs.

In a normal, official debate this would be true. This is far from being normal or official debate. However, sources would make your post more effective and meaningful.

 

[Ninva]

Then why would you say it? cos it just looks like you are spouting bs.
I would also like you to answer NoxMortus' question about the holes in the evolutionary theory cos I'm interested in hearing what you have to say.

I normally wouldn't say anything if I can't support it, but I was signaled out by NoxMortus. So I put together something from the past to see how far I'd get.

I will not humor you anymore. I do not know how to support my claims any further, and any objection I put up will and can be easily countered.

 

[emjlr3]

since I have attained a degree in BioChem, and taken ecology and evolution (among other related courses) - I'm gonna go out on a limb here and call myself the resident expert

with that said - I challenge anyone to bring forth a claim disputing Evolution - and stating that we are still not quite sure how the universe, or life itself started is not proof that a God exists - remember, 1000 years ago everyone was positive that the Earth was flat and was at the center of the Universe (A religous teaching btw) - imagine what we will know 1000 years from now - I will be happy to discredit your arguments

I do not know how to support my claims any further, and any objection I put up will and can be easily countered.

when relying on blind faith as opposed to scientific proofs, its often hard to

 

[Seb!]

Aw, science always kills the fun.

 

[esb]

Evolution, in my opinion, does exist, and it's quite obvious as there's plenty of evidence (just think of all the species that exist today). People are finding new species all the time, and unless God did a good job at playing hide and seek, that means they evolved recently. Mutation or adaptation, either may be evolution.

As for how far evolution can go (to the creation of the universe), for me the Big Bang is as real as God existing. Either could be fake or real, since we have no evidence of how such thing could have happened. It's quite hard for us to understand how matter could have been created from nothing.

 

[Kenny]

I go to a Catholic school and i still find it hard to believe in the theory that "a higher power" created what we see here today. There just isn't enough facts to support it, and the idea of creationism sounds completely ludicrous by any means... it's just too far fetched.

I believe in the concept of evolution, and for the most part i believe 'Darwin and Wallace's Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection' seems pretty dead on. It basically just states that a species will develop characteristics that will improve its survival rate, over a long period of time (basically meaning like millions of years). Hense the saying "survival of the fittest". Some organsims within the species will develop a characteristic while others will not, therefore the ones that do not will die off, and the ones that attain the characteristic will have the opportunity to breed. This, as compared to creationism, seems much more logical and plausible.

Another pretty plausible theory, in my opinion, is the theory of Punctuated Equilibrium. Which in theory, is very similar to the former, however the characteristics are suddenly developed due to environmental factors and favorable mutations, and that these mutations, though created "instantaneously" (in relation to the time line of earth) will slowly then develop to "perfection" allowing those organisms to continue breeding and surviving the ecosystem they live in.

The overwhelming factual evidence for the theories of evolution makes it kind of hard to believe in something such as creationism. However, this is just my view, as being in a Catholic school, it is a large part of my schooling life, which side to go with... And im a person who believes in facts and logic, so logically i'd go with the one with a factual base.

 

[vypur85]

> long period of time (basically meaning like millions of years)

This is very true. But it also depends on the type on organism we are talking about. I give 2 examples:

Humans:
Regeneration rate is about 20 to 30 years before starting to reproduce (pregnant, give birth etc). That's why a very very long time before a human, now, will start to evolve to something different, in future. May need a few million years old.

Bacteria:
Regeneration rate is about 20 minutes (at least). It would take them a few days or several weeks to have a large downstream generation. So, when you grow bacteria, add a little stress (like salt or heat), you can most probably see the change in adaptation in like, a few weeks time? Maybe a few will survive through the stress, and these few bacteria will probably experience some genetic mutation. They will definitely be different from their ancestral parents. Hence, evolution (or in this case, mutation).

So evolution definitely exist. It's just hard to see it from animals because their regeneration rate is low. May take a few million years old.

Edit (For post below):
Yeah, you're probably right . That's why, as I said, always finish your antibiotic when the doctor prescribe to you. Or, don't take any antibiotic at all. Let your immune system evolve against the unfavourable bacteria presence and let your immunity cure your own cough next time . You evolve is better than the bacteria evolve. But don't literally take my word on this. I'm not a doctor .

Spoiler

In fact, this is generally how vaccines are created. Adaptation.

 

[esb]

vypur85 reminds me of something else. Take a look at insects, such as flies and cockroaches. Years back you just got a Raid or insect killing spray and they died. Now a days, it's a lot harder to kill them with simple sprays. Why? The ones that are more resistant or immune to such sprays have survived and reproduced, passing down the resistant genes, and thus evolving.

 

[Kenny]

In relation to esb's post, in Australia, possibly the best examples of evolution in regards to immunities and survival would be the rabbits. The rabbits are not a native to Australia, however most of the East and Southern coasts contain ideal ecosystems for them to flurish.

Scientists developed the myxomatosis virus, which was used to basically exterminate all rabbits, and it worked on about 90% of them, however some were able to adapt and build an immunity to it, thus replenishing their population within a decade.

Then the Calisivirus was developed. This virus attacked the reproductive system within the rabbits. I believe it made the male rabbits sterile. This worked again on about 90-95% of the rabbit population, but again an immunity was established.

These example illustrate the theory of evolution on a bit of a smaller scale. Organisms that couldnt live in the ecosystem died out, while ones that could, lived on and passed of their favourable characteristics to future generations.

This type of evolution (and most evolution for that matter) is a result of genetic variation, which occurs in most animals, during the process of meiosis, or the recreation of sex cells.

Bit of general knowledge for you there.

 

[Varine]

How did life originate through evolution?

Serious question, I have no idea what the explanation is. Not trying to disprove anything.

 

[NoxMortus]

How did life originate through evolution?

Serious question, I have no idea what the explanation is. Not trying to disprove anything.

Evolution doesn't detail the origin of life.

I think the study of the origin of life is called abiogenesis.

I don't know much about it, something about amino acids being hit by lightning?

 

[Aqua Dragon]

How did life originate through evolution?

Basically, there were 2 kinds of cells back then - 2 different forms of prokaryotes (cells without internal structures). How these cells first formed is the puzzling part, but one theory is that different chemicals from inside the Earth rose up to the surface as bubbles. These, mixed with the sunlight's radioactive waves and lightning, formed the first organic components that made up the cells.

The theory is that as time went by, smaller prokaryotes tried to attack bigger ones by going inside them. However, they became part of them instead and these developed the first Eukaryote cells (Cells with internal structures. Or in other words, the things we're made of)

As more time went by, these cells learned how to divide and also developed the first processes of heredity, or RNA/DNA.

These large clumps of cells each turned out differently, resulting in many different kinds of organisms. As time passed, the "cell clumps" with the best features survived and slowly turned into animals.

A similar thing happened with plants, except they were already evolving from cyanobacteria, a type of bacteria that had learned how to use the process of photosynthesis.

That's basically it summarized down into a few paragraphs.

As for me, I believe that evolution exists yet also believe that God exists. My idea is that the Big Bang could not have happened by itself and was caused by God, who made it explode into what we see. Then he used the very processes he created to make the animals we see today. To summarize into 3 words - Day Age Creationism.

 

[Zakyath]

for all you saying that it's more logic that god made everything than evolution coming from nothing; where the heck did god come from?