Report Fish cannot feel pain say scientists

[tom_mai78101]

A study has found that, even when caught on a hook and wriggling, the fish is impervious to pain because it does not have the necessary brain power.

The research, conducted by a team of seven scientists and published in the journal Fish and Fisheries, concluded that the fish' reaction to being hooked is in fact just an unconscious reaction, rather than a response to pain.

Fish have already been found to have nociceptors - sensory receptors that in humans respond to potentially damaging stimuli by sending signals to the brain, allowing them to feel pain.

However, the latest research concluded that the mere presence of the receptors did not mean the animals felt pain, but only triggered a unconscious reaction to the threat.

Fish cannot feel pain say scientists

For years a row has raged over whether angling is a cruel sport, and now researchers have waded into the debate by claiming that fish cannot feel pain.

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[Wummi]

Ok, give a fish 100 cuts and see if it squirms in pain.

 

[vypur85]

The 'Related articles' section is kinda... amusing. They can't seem to make up their mind.

 

[tom_mai78101]

Ok, give a fish 100 cuts and see if it squirms in pain.

You need to make it reasonable.

 

[Accname]

<Insert extremely racist comment from Accname here>

 

[FireCat]

Such a bullshit.

 

[Zakyath]

let's hope they're right.

 

[FireCat]

Fish cannot feel pain "is absolute rubbish" Well, fish can’t talk. Matter of fact!
And It's pretty hard to tell the emotions of a fish. Bit Seriously, If the fish been bitten by another
fish and get/has tissue damage. Would the fish enjoy it instead?

 

[Dan]

FireCat, Wummi, you guys need to calm down a bit. We need to have an intelligent conversation on the topic, and not one of emotional attachment and brainless knee-jerk reactions.

First of all, we should start with the assumption that fish do feel pain. Until proven wrong without a doubt, we can't say that they do not. On this point I believe we can all agree.

Now--if I made a robot that reacted to pain stimuli (by flinching, reddening skin, swelling, squirming, curling up, tearing, holding damaged portions, etc) would it be in pain?

This robot has no algorithms for anything else at all. It simply has receptors that detect pressure, heat, and other forces and responds in a predetermined way. It has no feelings, emotions, hopes, dreams, or anything of the sort. It is a machine and only a machine.

My point here is that it may look very real to anyone who witnessed my robot "in pain," but it would be very safe to say that it actually felt no pain at all. It could not truly feel because it would have no self awareness.

Now let us slip into a real life scenario: a dead organism that has a nervous system. The organism that I am speaking of is dead. It no longer has self awareness and can no longer know that it is in pain. This organism can still; however, twitch, squirm, and do many interesting responses to stimuli. Does this organism exist?

Spider legs twitch after dead.
Bee stingers pump after dis-attached.
A rattlesnake can strike without a head after being killed.
Humans can move after they die.
Anesthesia can numb an area to the point were pain is not felt, but your body will still have to parasympathetic responses.

The point I am making is that you might think that the above situations equate to pain or conscious feelings--but they do not. There are many times when movement has no connection to conscious pain.

To say that a fish would "squirm in pain" is to miss the point of the entire study. If a fish cannot feel pain then it would not be "squirming in pain;" it would be squirming in NOT pain. If a fish cannot feel pain--if a fish is not self aware of pain, then there is no such thing as a fish squirming in pain. If a fish squirms in this case, then it simply squirms. That is THE ENTIRE POINT OF THIS STUDY.

I would like people to stop thinking with the fuzzy warm part of their brain that wants to hug kittens. That part is not logical.

 

[FireCat]

Oh crap, you compare a living creature with a robot.

PAIN is a word used by humans to represent one of their experiences. They know what it is without needing to define it.

Animal pain should not be confused with human pain. However, it is helpful to use definitions of human pain to understand animal pain. Animal pain probably serves the same purposes as human pain and is as important to the animal as pain is to humans. However, animal and human experiences of pain, in response to the same stimulus, may not be identical.

(Human) pain is:
“An unpleasant sensory and emotional experience associated with actual or potential tissue damage or described in terms of such damage” (IASP, 1979).

Two definitions of animal pain are:

Pain in animals is an aversive sensory experience that elicits protective motor actions, results in learned avoidance and may modify species specific traits of behaviour, including social behaviour

Animal pain is an aversive, sensory experience representing awareness by the animal of damage or threat to the integrity of its tissues; (note that there might not be any damage). It changes the animal’s physiology and behaviour to reduce or avoid the damage, to reduce the likelihood of its recurrence and to promote recovery. Non-functional (non-useful) pain occurs when the intensity or duration of the experience is not appropriate for damage sustained (especially if none exists) and when physiological and behavioural responses are unsuccessful in alleviating it (Molony, 1997)

Sites of Origin of Pain:

Somatic pain originates from the body including skin, bone, muscles, tendons and other tissues.
Horse showing stretching with acute visceral pain

Visceral pain originates from the internal organs e.g. heart, lungs, alimentary canal and reproductive organs.

Neuropathic pain originates from nerves, the spinal cord and brain because of abnormal processing of nervous activity.

The pain from internal organs can be localised to superficial sites (Referred pain)
Duration of Pain:

Acute pain immediately follows injury and disappears when the injury heals. It is usually associated with quantifiable changes to processes providing the body with protection from damage (defensive body processes).

Chronic pain is prolonged, however, there is little agreement as to when recurring bouts of acute pain become chronic pain or for how long pain must persist to be considered chronic. Quantifiable changes to the functioning of defensive body processes may NOT be seen.

Chronic inflammatory pain: occurs when healing persists beyond the expected time, due to infection or other inflammatory processors.

Lame sheep, with foot rot, a chronic inflammatory condition, showing grazing on knees

Chronic neuropathic pain: may not have a well-defined onset and may not respond to treatments that are effective against acute or chronic inflammatory pain. It is sometimes described as "intractable" pain.

 

[Accname]

Depends on the definition of pain dan.
If i just say pain is a feeling then its safe to say, that fish feel pain. If they have the receptors, of course.

 

[Zakyath]

Depends on the definition of pain dan.
If i just say pain is a feeling then its safe to say, that fish feel pain. If they have the receptors, of course.

if you read the article, you'll see that the receptors in the skin can appreciate what we would call pain, but their brains doesn't have the necessary parts to create any actual feelings out of this. it would be like knocking yourself on your knee when you're on painkillers - your leg would twitch, but you wouldn't feel a thing.

although this is only probabel, not certain. but that really goes without saying.

 

[FireCat]

Scientists should be "transformed into a fish" Just saying

 

[tom_mai78101]

Scientists should be "transformed into a fish" Just saying

We loved to. <3 But we can't.

 

[Accname]

Firecat should be transformed into an intelligent human being.

 

[FireCat]

Nah, fuck that.^

We loved to. <3 But we can't.

Oh that's a pity isn't it ?

 

[tom_mai78101]

Welp,there goes the wasted IQ.

 

[camelCase]

Nah, fuck that.^
Oh that's a pity isn't it ?

Unknowingly admits to being unintelligent.

FireCat cannot think logically say scientists

 

[FireCat]

Unknowingly admits

I didn't admit anything. I'm Just sayin'
Btw: What Kind of Intelligence "Do you have?" Hehe

 

[camelCase]

Enough to intern at MIT. Not sure about you, though.