CTF Forest CTF

[Darthfett]

- Flag takes an inventory slot, so the shop items cant be used to full extent. Intended?
- Returning flag takes an inventory slot, so a flag runner can really only have 4 items to be fully prepared

Not really intended, I just didn't really think of it as a bug, since I always left room for it (just one of those things you have to have another person's look through to notice).

I have a fix planned for it now, though, so thanks for reporting it!

- AI wont go after the enemy flag if they are killed and it isn't returned (which normally should happen)
- AI sometimes wont go for a flag that is dropped before death

Just another one of those incomplete sections of the AI, which is why it's only in Beta testing. As of right now, they'll go to the original flag area, and then get ordered to pick up the flag (since if I outright order the units to pick up the flag, they'll just ignore anyone attacking them).

- Gnoll: Blade turning hotkey doesn't work
- The human hunter (summons bear) has a hotkey confliction with Lay Trap and Flurry
- Flurry appears to happen much more than indicated chance

Already fix'd in my personal version, thanks.

- If someone is standing on the circle of power with the enemy flag, and the friendly flag is returned, it wont capture.

Just another one of the reasons I'm converting this almost entirely to JASS. I don't really want to have to re-create the entire capture trigger in GUI, just for this purpose, so I'll make a JASS version, and just call the trigger, so as to re-use code.

- Summons aren't selected when summoned. OK I know this is more of a suggestion, but for all of us that only have the dot in the middle of the keyboard it would be nice to have it get selected when summoned. Even with a mouse it is detrimental to have to select the wolf in a game that is fast paced like this one.

That's very true (another one of those things I won't usually see, since I'm so used to playing the game). I'll fix it in Beta 2 version.

- Hero isn't selected on respawn, follows same lines as the summons.

I'll fix it, thanks!

Fatal (no +2 replay rep for me )

(sure you will, this is excellent feedback!!). I encountered this problem once while I was working on the AI, but I have no clue where its source could be. I've gone through all of my code several times, with no luck. I will be going through it again with fresh eyes, in a while, but for now I can't promise I'll be able to find the source of the problem.

Balance
- Flurry seems to be a bit powerful. I can go for the AOE damage, but not the stun. I could keep the other team stunned about 1/3 to 1/2 of the time with just level 2 of it (hence why I think it was going off more than intended), so expand that to getting a whole team of rangers and them all traveling together... unstoppable mega-bulldozer of perma stunnage anyone?

I can assure you that Flurry's indicated chance is correct, but it is random, so multiple hits in a row can be expected.

- Gnoll: Ensnare cooldown is as long as its duration, No difference between level 2 and 3

I would suggest it as such: 1 second ensnare with each level adding 1 second. This should end up with a 5 second end ensnare. Changing the cooldown to 20 or 25 seconds would balance this out. Right now any unfortunate melee hero is useless against the rogue. I also think that any kind of disable with a shorter/same cooldown as its duration is bad design. Why the long cooldown? Well the rest of your team has disables too!

This is sort of intended. The tooltip says level 2 and 3 are the same, though it is not true (I will be sure to change it). Actual durations are 1.5, 2, 2.5, 3 seconds. I am trying to make it fair for the Gnoll to be able to stop running constantly and fight a little bit, as he gets slaughtered if he is caught, which is why there is a short cooldown on ensnare.

I do not want him to be completely overpowered simply keeping an enemy ensnared with one use, and be able to fire at will (he has the highest damage output of all the heroes, but very little time to keep it consistent), which is why he has a short duration ensnare, and must be a fast clicker to keep an enemy ensnared. This will also drain his mana pool, so he must use this method sparingly (which can be frustrating for the enemy player).

- Gnoll: Can hide with flag, and hide is basically invulnerability

This is true, I will add it to the restricted flag abilities list, which will disable it.

- Gold: Nothing to spend it on. I'm not saying to add tomes, but maybe put in some high end items to help end the game

This is why I am putting in Artifact items (there are two in the game so far).

I plan on releasing these items slowly, though I might do something to raise prices a little bit.

- Heroes spawn too fast.

In lower levels, yes. This is so you can't rush in early levels, and gives new players time to learn the game. However, when players reach the higher levels (10-15), respawn timers are much longer. This is intentional, as I don't a flag-grab after killing all enemy units to be the end of the round, I want players to be able to continue going after the flag. This way, some players may be able to catch up to the flag carrier, and stall him, and have a chance at returning the flag.

All in all, high quality map. It is a good size (maybe just a tid bit bigger than what I'd consider ideal), and I will play it a lot on B.net once the bugs are worked out. This has a lot of teamwork potential. Happy New Year and sorry for all the possible work I've given you .

This sort of work is exactly what I was hoping for, which is part of the reason I'm giving you 2 +rep (other reason is because an untimely crash is not your fault, since you hoped to present me with a replay). I'm very happy to hear that you consider it high-quality.

Thank you so much!!

 

[Joker(Div)]

More Customized abilities
Smaller terrain
Slower Spawn
More useful items

Map is too big and revive time is so short that its nearly impossible to get the flags. We die too fast and theres almost no action.

 

[Darthfett]

First of all, thanks for play-testing. It really helps when I get feedback from someone who has played the game on their own, without my talking to them and answering questions.

Smaller terrain
Slower Spawn

Map is too big and revive time is so short that its nearly impossible to get the flags. We die too fast and theres almost no action.

I'll be doing a few more tests, but don't expect to see any huge changes to the times. I want to keep it so it's possible to return the flag, so when a capture occurs, it's a BIG thing. That way, a standard game is 2-3 captures. Revive time goes up as game time/hero levels go up.

Dieing fast is an important part of the game. It makes the game fast paced, and makes teamwork essential. You respawn quickly, but you have the penalty of having to walk the way back to wherever you were at.

More Customized abilities
More useful items

I'm planning on it, but it's time consuming to get ideas for a spell, test and debug the spell to make sure it works correctly, since all new spells are MUI. Plus, I have to balance the spell to make sure it's not too strong in one aspect, or not useful enough in some situation.

As for the items: I'm releasing them slowly, but surely. Did you find the current items not useful, or did you just want more variety and more expensive items?

This brings me to my announcement:

I'm currently looking for another mapper to partner with, to help balance the units, to make them more rock-paper-scissors, give me some ideas for abilities that go with each hero's play-style, and to give ideas for/create new items.

 

[RoarMan]

I played this map with my friends we loved it. The only thing is that it seems that the Murloc Mage is a bit overpowered. I was the one playing him and everybody was bothered at how much my fireblast thing did. Also the blink and manaburn really didn't help my friends complaining. I found that I was also lagging when I was near those wooden stairs and platforms (The ones at the south-west corner.) Also I couldn't figure out how to set the amount of rounds or -ap/-ar.

 

[thewrongvine]

This brings me to my announcement:
I'm currently looking for another mapper to partner with, to help balance the units, to make them more rock-paper-scissors, give me some ideas for abilities that go with each hero's play-style, and to give ideas for/create new items.

DARTHFETT, ME PLEASE!

I can:
-Balance units
-Make them more rock-paper-scissors (o.o)
-Give ideas for abilities that go with each heroes' play-style
-Give ideas for/creating new items!

Or if this position goes to someone more qualified, then I can be a hepper? I mean a hepper? I mean helper!

Now I really need to get my WCIII back.

~Hai-Bye-Vine~

 

[PureOwnage]

I'll beta test if you like...

 

[BlackRose]

• Boots of Speed don't stack, the tooltip says it does.
• Sometimes the "item" on the treehouse spawns a bit on the edge, making it look weird.
• AI Bots should get items.

 

[Kenny]

I've played it a few times, and I've enyoed it . I cannot play it extensively at the moment, but over time i will try to go through parts of the map and find anything that may need to be changed and/or added.

So far (I'm not sure if they have been brought up):

- Player 1 (Red) timerdialog for respawn isn't right, i think the colour code may be messed up.
- Heroes aren't selected when they respawn.
- The tooltips, although some look cool, i suggest keeping it simple and making them all the same. To me it would seem far more professional if it was done that way, right now, some of those tooltips remind me of... *shudders* Angel Arena type games. Simplicity is always key to a good game.

Also:

- HOLY CRAP! - what did you do to your map in the editor!?!?!?! its covered in unnecessary doodads and destructables, a lot of which could be removed and you would still achieve the desired effect.

- Seriously, there are a lot of pathing blockers, and some of them i can see absolutely no use for.

- The rocks surrounding the river. I think theres too much. They are just bunched together so closely, and then there are hardly any away from the river. Again, the same effect can be achieved with 50-60% of the rocks used.

- Most of the coding seems pretty good, however i did check the revival system, due to my first point, and it could use a little work, i have a revival system i made for someone if you want it, but i think your as, if not more, competent as me in jass, so i don't think it matters too much.

Some of the other things i was going to say have already been said.

On the brighter side of things, the terrain, all in all is pretty damn good. The tree house thing is f*#king amazing! This is a cool map and it has lots of promise.

 

[Cheesy]

I've only played once so far, and here is what I noticed:

- (Complaint) I found it very hard to distinguish who was / was not on my team without hovering over them for a second, or even clicking on them, maybe add some sort of indicator (Besides team color of course) to distinguish the teams better?

- (Complaint) The insane ammount of computer talk-spam. Either make them talk less, or figure out how to make them talk through the chat, because the whole game was just a wall of text covering half my screen. (I played with 1 other person, 1 human + 4 comps vs 1 human + 4 comps)

- (Comment) Gameplay seemed fairly ballanced IMO, I'd probably have to play much more to get a good perspective on that though.

- (Comment) Very fun, and I imagine much MORE fun when playing with friends.

- (Suggestion) Add some sounds to the game when events happen! I'm not saying go all-out and do the un-original Quake sounds, but maybe some dings when a good event happens, a small big of music when your team scores, make the game come to life!


Replay below!

 

[Darthfett]

I played this map with my friends we loved it. The only thing is that it seems that the Murloc Mage is a bit overpowered. I was the one playing him and everybody was bothered at how much my fireblast thing did. Also the blink and manaburn really didn't help my friends complaining. I found that I was also lagging when I was near those wooden stairs and platforms (The ones at the south-west corner.) Also I couldn't figure out how to set the amount of rounds or -ap/-ar.

Thanks for testing! (+rep) He's also one of the harder heroes to play, so it's funny that you find the Mage to be a little strong. For me, I found I did the best when I was the Gnoll Rogue (which I think has been mentioned as being strong before), and the Makrura Paladin. I did recently increase Fireball's damage (in exchange for some stun), so I will do some more testing on it.

EDIT: I also forgot to mention that I will be increasing the setup time (since there is a -skip option), so you won't have problems with entering in commands or round options.

DARTHFETT, ME PLEASE!

I can:
-Balance units
-Make them more rock-paper-scissors (o.o)
-Give ideas for abilities that go with each heroes' play-style
-Give ideas for/creating new items!

Or if this position goes to someone more qualified, then I can be a hepper? I mean a hepper? I mean helper!

Now I really need to get my WCIII back.

~Hai-Bye-Vine~

I'll send you the (newest version of the) map, and we'll see how it goes. Have you played the map yet? I'd really like for you to at least get a feel of how the game works a little, before you volunteer.

I'll beta test if you like...

That would be wonderful! The map is attached the first post, so play it any way you want (offline with bots, in a game I host online for you, or online with a public group).

1 Boots of Speed don't stack, the tooltip says it does.
2 Sometimes the "item" on the treehouse spawns a bit on the edge, making it look weird.
3 AI Bots should get items.

1. You're right. I will fix it. Thanks
2. Yeah, that's true. I will move it so it spawns better.
3. Just one of the unfinished sections of the AI. There's some functionality for it, but I have yet to go into the editor and really program it in.

- Player 1 (Red) timerdialog for respawn isn't right, i think the colour code may be messed up.
- Heroes aren't selected when they respawn.
- The tooltips, although some look cool, i suggest keeping it simple and making them all the same. To me it would seem far more professional if it was done that way, right now, some of those tooltips remind me of... *shudders* Angel Arena type games. Simplicity is always key to a good game.

1. I'm not quite sure what you mean. Does the name get cut off, is there a problem with the color?
2. I will fix it. Thanks
3. Some of the abilities are new, some of them have been in the game since the first playable version, which is the reason for the different tooltips. I'm still looking for a template, but they will be fixed soon enough. The colors on some of them are going to be uniform across heroes (Ability 1,2,3 will have Orange, Blue, Green, Semi-ultimate will have Gold, and Ultimate will have Red), but I was just messing around with the colors for the few that do have colors.

- HOLY CRAP! - what did you do to your map in the editor!?!?!?! its covered in unnecessary doodads and destructables, a lot of which could be removed and you would still achieve the desired effect.

- Seriously, there are a lot of pathing blockers, and some of them i can see absolutely no use for.

- The rocks surrounding the river. I think theres too much. They are just bunched together so closely, and then there are hardly any away from the river. Again, the same effect can be achieved with 50-60% of the rocks used.

2. Almost all the pathing blockers have to be there, as the Mage has blink. Otherwise, blinking into the trees would make the game extremely unfair.

1. / 3. I agree that there's a bit much, but I didn't want to change too much of Smith_S9's original work. It was pretty and functional.

- Most of the coding seems pretty good, however i did check the revival system, due to my first point, and it could use a little work, i have a revival system i made for someone if you want it, but i think your as, if not more, competent as me in jass, so i don't think it matters too much.

On the brighter side of things, the terrain, all in all is pretty damn good. The tree house thing is f*#king amazing! This is a cool map and it has lots of promise.

1. This is actually my first nearly full-JASS map. In the past, all my JASS was simply spells and abilities, but some of the older systems are... old. I was mostly working on creating all the new, trying to get rid of the old GUI stuff. Once I get through that stage, I will be doing a large overhaul of the JASS code, since it is a bit disorganized.

2. Thanks for the feedback!! I'm glad everyone's excited about the map, despite the bugs.

Kenny: I will give the +rep when I can (I need to spread the love around )

- (Complaint) I found it very hard to distinguish who was / was not on my team without hovering over them for a second, or even clicking on them, maybe add some sort of indicator (Besides team color of course) to distinguish the teams better?

I will consider it, though I thought the line of sight sharing would be enough.

- (Complaint) The insane ammount of computer talk-spam. Either make them talk less, or figure out how to make them talk through the chat, because the whole game was just a wall of text covering half my screen. (I played with 1 other person, 1 human + 4 comps vs 1 human + 4 comps)

Heh, yes, this is not one of the best parts of the AI. I will work on it, as I have been planning to, for awhile now. The AI is starting out as a team-balancer, but I hope to make it sophisticated enough to become a full-fledged CTF player.

- (Comment) Gameplay seemed fairly ballanced IMO, I'd probably have to play much more to get a good perspective on that though.

That's what I've been working on for awhile now. I've been trying to keep it balanced, but it's hard to try and keep a game fair for any player to beat any player (with skill), even if one hero has an advantage over another.

- (Comment) Very fun, and I imagine much MORE fun when playing with friends.

Definitely. I find the game to be a bit dreary when I play offline, as I know the AI's aren't really talking to me.

- (Suggestion) Add some sounds to the game when events happen! I'm not saying go all-out and do the un-original Quake sounds, but maybe some dings when a good event happens, a small big of music when your team scores, make the game come to life!

That's a great idea! I think this is just what the game is missing. I bet once I put them in, it will make the experience much easier for players to understand everything that's going on. Thanks for also submitting the replay! (2x +rep)

EDIT: I also saw in your replay that you were annoyed at the screen spammage. I'll be reducing the amount computers talk soon, so that should be taken care of.

 

[Dirac]

Nice map. Awesome terraining (the tree of life place is insane ). Average gameplay:

-Hero Respawn too fast and near from the flag.
-Some tooltips are spelled wrong
-Shops are away from the base
-Map "restarts" when score
-Units are too slow
-Speed bonus is way too small
-Needs more heroes

 

[Romek]

Saw the awesome terrain screenies, so I decided to play it.
It's really cool!

I couldn't seem to walk all the way around the giant tree though, and it does block the vision quite horribly...

 

[thewrongvine]

Of course! Don't you remember? I was like the first to test it out! OK, I was the third...

Send away! And then I has something to say...

~Hai-Bye-Vine~

 

[Cheesy]

> (Complaint) I found it very hard to distinguish who was / was not on my team without hovering over them for a second, or even clicking on them, maybe add some sort of indicator (Besides team color of course) to distinguish the teams better?

I will consider it, though I thought the line of sight sharing would be enough.

Maybe just make everyone on one team a color, and everyone on the other team 1 color. Then edit the text for the hovering over of heroes so it is something like:

<Name> (Colored as Team Color)
<Hero Level>

Kills: <x>
Caps: <y>

No <>'s?

For example:

[color="blue"]Cheesy[/color]
Level [COLOR="green"][b]8[/b][/COLOR]

Kills: [color="green"]6[/color]
Caps:  [color="green"]1[/color]

Just a suggestion.

 

[Kenny]

1. I'm not quite sure what you mean. Does the name get cut off, is there a problem with the color?

When i die, it comes up with |cfff....

3. Some of the abilities are new, some of them have been in the game since the first playable version, which is the reason for the different tooltips. I'm still looking for a template, but they will be fixed soon enough. The colors on some of them are going to be uniform across heroes (Ability 1,2,3 will have Orange, Blue, Green, Semi-ultimate will have Gold, and Ultimate will have Red), but I was just messing around with the colors for the few that do have colors.

That makes sense, as long as all heroes have a standard layout.

I havent checked, but it may also be a good idea to have the QWERT layout for ability hotkeys.

2. Almost all the pathing blockers have to be there, as the Mage has blink. Otherwise, blinking into the trees would make the game extremely unfair.

Maybe use rects or larger areas of the map? So on EVENT_PLAYER_UNIT_SPELL_CAST or whatever it is, check if they are targeting a point within the rect, then cancel if they are.

The less doodads, the better it is for online play, so getting rid of a few pathing blockers would be good.

I will be doing a large overhaul of the JASS code, since it is a bit disorganized.

I think thats mostly what is needed in the trigger section, organisation. I am a bit of an organisation nazi, so when i saw it i was like hmm, something should be done.

 

[BlackRose]

You exceeded the Doodad limit?

 

[Cfw_Master]

Alright just tested it with Troll Assassin. Since I don't know what other people might have posted before me, i'll just list down what I found.

AI goes after flag even if both flags are at my base. (The enemy usually takes out flag the same time i take theirs. I place their flag at my base since i can't score with it yet. Then, I go to the enemy base to get my flag back. Since the flag goes immediately to the circle of power, I have to go back and take the enemy flag off the circle of power and back on to score.) Even after both flags are at my base, the AI goes after the "flag" and runs to the enemy circle of power.

There is a conflict of hotkeys as well.
Shadow Strike and Sidestep

Gnoll Rouges seem to be too powerful with ensnare and hide. The AI strategy is usually to hide in their base (I played 2v2 and both enemies were gnoll) and when I got close to the base, they would jump out and shoot. Since they have best DPS and are ranged, its pretty much an instant kill. (Not to mention ensnare) When this is released to the public, imagine a group of 6 gnoll rouges hiding at the hero spawn point, casting ensnare and slaughtering any hero that spawns.

Well thats what I found out so far. Good luck with the bugs :thup:

 

[Darthfett]

Maybe just make everyone on one team a color, and everyone on the other team 1 color. Then edit the text for the hovering over of heroes ...

Too bad it can't be changed dynamically (in-game). I'll find a way to make it more unified, but for now, I'll focus on the most important parts (AI system, bugs, getting everything working). Thanks for the idea.

When i die, it comes up with |cfff....

Did you try restarting the map in a 1 player game? your name can get messed up, since it reuses the name you were already using. The game changes it, so it's only probably getting the first so many characters of your name.

That makes sense, as long as all heroes have a standard layout.

I havent checked, but it may also be a good idea to have the QWERT layout for ability hotkeys.

They will soon have a standard layout. However, it may just be a while, since I have been changing abilities constantly. The keyboard layout is a good idea, I might just try it out.

Maybe use rects or larger areas of the map? So on EVENT_PLAYER_UNIT_SPELL_CAST or whatever it is, check if they are targeting a point within the rect, then cancel if they are.

The less doodads, the better it is for online play, so getting rid of a few pathing blockers would be good.

There's still the matter of this being a fast-paced game. If a unit simply stops trying to blink, instead of blinking to the nearest accessible area as expected, it can be frustrating.

You exceeded the Doodad limit?

Yes. For a number of reasons:

-It's pretty.
-It's using pathing blockers to ensure there are no gaps (the old terrain had plenty, even though it had a lot less doodads/destructibles).
-The world tree-house thing is very high quality (thanks to Smith_S9!!)

AI goes after flag even if both flags are at my base. (The enemy usually takes out flag the same time i take theirs. I place their flag at my base since i can't score with it yet. Then, I go to the enemy base to get my flag back. Since the flag goes immediately to the circle of power, I have to go back and take the enemy flag off the circle of power and back on to score.) Even after both flags are at my base, the AI goes after the "flag" and runs to the enemy circle of power.

I'm actually working on this right now. Almost have it finished, I just have a few bugs to work out (heroes will go to the flag, but won't pick it up).

Gnoll Rogues seem to be too powerful with ensnare and hide. The AI strategy is usually to hide in their base (I played 2v2 and both enemies were gnoll) and when I got close to the base, they would jump out and shoot. Since they have best DPS and are ranged, its pretty much an instant kill. (Not to mention ensnare) When this is released to the public, imagine a group of 6 gnoll rouges hiding at the hero spawn point, casting ensnare and slaughtering any hero that spawns.

I'm doing a few small changes to the revive system, as well as reducing the Rogue's hp:

• Revive wait period increased from 7-12 seconds, to 9.5-16.5 seconds.
• On revive, players' heroes will automatically be selected for them.
• On revive, players will recieve a 50% speed boost and period of invulnerability for 6 seconds.

I think this will make it fairer, as it gives the flag carrier just enough time to escape, gives respawning players a chance against any spawn-camping players, and it gives them a chance to catch up to the flag carrier even though the respawn time is increased.

 

[BlackRose]

(I will refer to Gnoll Assasin as Gnoll and the Marchakk (Red Sven the Rogue Knight model) as Rogue Knight (Can't remember name).

When I used Hide with Gnoll, and the Rogue Knight used that charge spell, it still comes to me. Also, it's a bit annoying, when you attack and hide, so you take no damage.

The map is so big, it takes me a long time to reach back to my base? Perhaps a TP scroll? Except carriers can't use it.

Maybe instead of Red/Blue/Red/Blue for the players, (Multiboard), make it

RED TEAM:
...Player 1
...Player 234
...Player RETARD

BLUE TEAM:
...Player SDF

In other notes, juse set ally colouring if it's confusing.
The hotkey with Sprint:
Learn: P
Normal: R
Most people won't even notice it's different, maybe make it just R for both, as the other's done use R (I think).

AI don't score if they are holding flag (or you) and your flag was stolen, then recaptured and appears at your base, they just stand there. And you can't get it to move.

I find the map lacks in FPS in low-speed computers, probably too many Doodads.

Suggestion: Maybe a life mode, once you die, that's it until the next round.

 

[thewrongvine]

Uh... I responded Darthfett , unless you're thinking about it.

~Hai-Bye-Vine~