Ghosts?

[Vellu]

Well, I think aliens and ghosts exist.
There is a show at one of our Finnish channels, was it "Ghostteam" or something.
They have spooky things, like one battleship.
The camera crew chased a shadow to a room with just one exit.
But there was nothing.
But, I haven't seen any ghosts yet, and I kinda hope I would see one some day.

 

[Varine]

Well, I think aliens and ghosts exist.
There is a show at one of our Finnish channels, was it "Ghostteam" or something.
They have spooky things, like one battleship.
The camera crew chased a shadow to a room with just one exit.
But there was nothing.
But, I haven't seen any ghosts yet, and I kinda hope I would see one some day.

We have shows like that in America, too. We call it digitally enhanced.

 

[w/e]

First, sorry for my above post that had little to do with this thread. I should have put that in a PM. My apologies.

Moving along...


W/E,

The first possibility you mention is definitely something that I have considered and am sure has been the case at times. Although what I have experienced would be impossible to replicate unless you had a several million dollar budget. I have considered hallucination as well. Upon investigation, however, it becomes less viable and does not account for every situation. Hallucination as an explanation, for example; does not appeal to common logic as much as some would initially believe. This may be because one's brain is rationalizing and compartmentalizing something it finds conflictive with the cohesive view it has built on reality. We live in a very materialistic world. And we think very two dimensionally, hypothetically speaking, especially when given we as humans can calculate to the tenth dimension, and yet just the third is kicking our asses when it comes to comprehension.

Hallucinating a ghost is harder for me to believe could or would happen than actually seeing a real one is. Heres why: first, and unfortunately I'm afraid even the word "ghost" brings with it a certain amount of negative association and skepticism in many. These are already mythical in our minds both consciously as well as even if we do not have direct awareness we hold them as myth, come to a conclusion or done any real investigation. And wouldn't that be kind of be a weird hobby, to investigate ghosts? You've already been painted a picture as to what ghosts are - a myth, why hunt for the answers...you got Hollywood, wait f*** that you got WCIII and TheHelper.net. Life is good. Anyhow I thank Hollywood for this, whether true or not, for what it has formed of "ghost" in many peoples minds.

So where I am going with this, your gonna have to fill in a few blanks, but I know I am already losing readers, har har, is that if I'm going to hallucinate seeing a ghost; why not a pink polka dotted dragon instead? Or a giant neon-green super-soaker with legs and arms that shoots cheese-whiz? Why aren't so many, or any of these so called "genuine experiences" of encounters with the "muffin man" or the "crab people" from South Park. Why aren't there surmounting reports of seeing giant talking tacos that crap ice-cream? Get it? Why? It should make the average investigative mind wonder a little bit. Beyond Hollywood how do you think the original myths got started?...from genuine experiences.

To see what I am talking about, visit this link. I think it is the best example.

I have had several "paranormal" experiences, and for each one of them, I did some investigating and every time, except one, I always found the answer.

I have considered hallucination as well. Upon investigation, however, it becomes less viable and does not account for every situation.

That is only for the situations that people simply could not come up with a hypothesis towards.

I know I am already losing readers, har har, is that if I'm going to hallucinate seeing a ghost; why not a pink polka dotted dragon instead? Or a giant neon-green super-soaker with legs and arms that shoots cheese-whiz? Why aren't so many, or any of these so called "genuine experiences" of encounters with the "muffin man" or the "crab people" from South Park. Why aren't there surmounting reports of seeing giant talking tacos that crap ice-cream? Get it? Why?

Because we are influenced by other media. (You gave a nice example with "Hollywood.") I'm sure that if we were influenced in different ways by different things we would be seeing those things when given the chance. But since we are not, we simply pass by the opportunity by not being imaginative enough. However, when we come to the opportunity to see stereotypical visions, then we see them because we have seen them elsewhere, such as in a movie, or picture.

Beyond Hollywood how do you think the original myths got started?...from genuine experiences.

Ancient and original myths got started with imagination, or the "illusion" of ghosts. Like I said, genuine experiences can be illusions. And the person will never know better. They will genuinely believe that they experienced the real thing.

And for those wondering, and still reading this lengthy post, I will tell of the one experience that I couldn't come up with an explanation for. I woke up at around 3 AM and I found a small puddle of blood on my floor. That's it. The blood was in a neat puddle sitting there in the middle of my floor. My door was open, so my cat may have been the cause. And I am totally sure that this was real. I got out of bed, turned on the lights and, woke up my parents. We cleaned it up and the cause was never discovered. However, I believe that there is a totally reasonable explanation for the incident. I have several hypotheses:

My cat could have done something.
I might have been sleepwalking.
Someone may have broken in.

The list can go on. Each of these seems very unlikely to me, but that's just how it is. I will never know the truth. I am sure that this was not supernatural/paranormal.

Disclaimer:

All of the above (excluding the quoted text) was written by me and is solely my beliefs and opinions. None of the above is currently hard fact.

 

[sjakie]

Disclaimer:

All of the above (excluding the quoted text) was written by me and is solely my beliefs and opinions. None of the above is currently hard fact.

Your post was so huge you acualy had to add a disclaimer to it

 

[w/e]

Yep. I didn't want people screaming at me that I was wrong. I just wanted to say the post was solely my opinion.

 

[BANANAMAN]

@BANANAMAN

Philippines is full of Ghosts and Monsters lol.. even here in Iloilo, we have ghosts..

Try Reading the Book, Philippines Ghost Stories.. hehe... Kinda scary..

Thanks for the tip...

 

[Father_Yetti]

To see what I am talking about, visit this link. I think it is the best example.

Unfortunately I am unable to check the link above as I do not currently have access to my computer and the one I am on is blocking the site as pornographic.

I have had several "paranormal" experiences, and for each one of them, I did some investigating and every time, except one, I always found the answer.

As you state above these are not "paranormal" experiences if you have found a logical explanation. They are merely experiences that you believe could be mistaken for the paranormal which fall short of this qualifier due to their apparent and logical explanations.

That is only for the situations that people simply could not come up with a hypothesis towards.

You are referring to hallucination here. If this is something you would apply only to those experiences that seem unable to come up with a hypothesis fitting to your approval then you really don't suffer true objectivity. It's not true objectivity to slap on an explanation that works for you despite your own admitting to its shortcomings just because you cannot except "paranormal" as a valid hypothesis.

Because we are influenced by other media. (You gave a nice example with "Hollywood.") I'm sure that if we were influenced in different ways by different things we would be seeing those things when given the chance. But since we are not, we simply pass by the opportunity by not being imaginative enough. However, when we come to the opportunity to see stereotypical visions, then we see them because we have seen them elsewhere, such as in a movie, or picture.

Well this is nice if you can completely ignore that ghost sightings have been around for ages before media images and Hollywood would have been here to foster these stereotypical visions. Let me be more specific with where I am going with this whole Hollywood issue. What I think that I would like to shine light on when I was referring to Hollywood is that the connotations that have been birthed from it are usually that it is a myth and that it is something that is shrouded in evil. This is not necessarily true and this actually could create even quite the opposite that you claim. Some individuals but not all may have experienced genuine encounters and then related this to the fact that they know ghost are of "Hollywood" and unreal. They then insert: "any number of logical explanation for the experience."

I think that both things happen here, however, I am allowing you the benefit of the doubt and actually well know that what you are saying can often times be the case. I sense however that my hypothesis and line of reasoning for such "paranormal" experience invariably escapes you. That is fine with me I'm just stating.

Ancient and original myths got started with imagination, or the "illusion" of ghosts. Like I said, genuine experiences can be illusions. And the person will never know better. They will genuinely believe that they experienced the real thing.

Here we have some assumptions being made that aren't necessarily true. For example it is true that an illusion could take place. This is not a paranormal encounter however and to believe one would be incapable of telling the difference is assuming that we as humans are incapable of any form of accurate perception. Yes its true that we can be fooled. However there are some things that are not as easily created or bluffed especially with multiple witnesses. As I have stated before there is no way on earth, short of having several million dollars and a twisted motive, to recreate what I have seen. There is no possible way that what I have experienced was an illusion. I do not now haphazardly slap in the hypothesis that it must have been a hallucination on my behalf and of the others present because no other logical explanation exist. At this point "paranormal" becomes the logical explanation.

And for those wondering, and still reading this lengthy post, I will tell of the one experience that I couldn't come up with an explanation for. I woke up at around 3 AM and I found a small puddle of blood on my floor. That's it. The blood was in a neat puddle sitting there in the middle of my floor. My door was open, so my cat may have been the cause. And I am totally sure that this was real. I got out of bed, turned on the lights and, woke up my parents. We cleaned it up and the cause was never discovered. However, I believe that there is a totally reasonable explanation for the incident. I have several hypotheses:

My cat could have done something.
I might have been sleepwalking.
Someone may have broken in.

The list can go on. Each of these seems very unlikely to me, but that's just how it is. I will never know the truth. I am sure that this was not supernatural/paranormal.

These hypothesis are good and as you say the list could go on. I am not one that would argue this as a case for the paranormal. I believe that there is a perfectly sound explanation for the events that you mention, however it may be that the exact explanation may never surface. I do not believe what you experienced was by any means out of the ordinary, a little freaky sure, but not in terms of paranormal.

What would make that for a paranormal experience would be if the blood was running against gravity and up the walls and across the ceiling. What might even back an incident like that up was that if two or more of you witnessed this same thing - ruling out hallucination. Now this is granting that such an experience did indeed occur and that someone wasn't just telling stories or tripping on drugs. Take this a little further and place yourself in this imaginary circumstance. What if the blood spelt out you and your observing friends name? To your disbelief and horror how could you account for this. How would you account for it?

Just something to think about. Unless you want to completely disregard me as a liar I can tell you that I genuinely have seen ghost, spirits, angels, demons, etc. I have had similar unexplainable events happen throughout my life and in fact have not been alone in this. And to me since I believe in the Bible this isn't even that far fetched for the world that I live in. My true amazement goes towards God and His mercy not some phenomenon that man may actually be able to explain someday - ghost.

Anyhow, please - I'm not inviting a huge seg-way here on religious debate, etc. - I hate religion - I'm just saying its no big thing to believe in something you have grown up seeing and believe in. Has this created more room for me to fabricate these illusions - one could argue - but in light of all I have experienced and that of others I don't believe so. I'm not the only one out there that knows they have seen something. And again to your credit W/E there are also genuine deceptions and illusions. I think however that you should allow yourself some credence to the other side of the argument. Just my humble opinion. Take it or leave it.

 

[Vellu]

My friend told me some weird things he had seen at he's home.
One night he saw a scream-mask floating in front of him, and then it felled on the floor, and he used to hear footsteps, an dkinda stuff.
Last night, he's stereos went on.
Dunno if he speaks, the truth, but when I was there one day, I got some spooky feelings, I didn't know about his ghosts then.
Whoa! I was shaking all the time, when I wrote this reply.

PS. Awww... Too much text! =( Don't write so much.

 

[w/e]

Unfortunately I am unable to check the link above as I do not currently have access to my computer and the one I am on is blocking the site as pornographic.

Well, when you get a chance to visit it, I'm sure you'll be interested. People piled up heaps of objects to form very convincing shadows.

As you state above these are not "paranormal" experiences if you have found a logical explanation. They are merely experiences that you believe could be mistaken for the paranormal which fall short of this qualifier due to their apparent and logical explanations.

So if someone cannot find an explanation, the experience is paranormal?

Well this is nice if you can completely ignore that ghost sightings have been around for ages before media images and Hollywood would have been here to foster these stereotypical visions. Let me be more specific with where I am going with this whole Hollywood issue. What I think that I would like to shine light on when I was referring to Hollywood is that the connotations that have been birthed from it are usually that it is a myth and that it is something that is shrouded in evil. This is not necessarily true and this actually could create even quite the opposite that you claim. Some individuals but not all may have experienced genuine encounters and then related this to the fact that they know ghost are of "Hollywood" and unreal. They then insert: "any number of logical explanation for the experience."

I think that both things happen here, however, I am allowing you the benefit of the doubt and actually well know that what you are saying can often times be the case. I sense however that my hypothesis and line of reasoning for such "paranormal" experience invariably escapes you. That is fine with me I'm just stating.

Before movies, there were books, before books, there was art. Before all that, all it took was one person to be imaginative enough to believe to have "seen a ghost," and then somehow record the incident. I understand what you are saying, but I just find it a little strange that most ghost sightings are very similar. Because of this, I think that the stereotypical image of ghosts may have originated from a small group of rather imaginative individuals, and then spread to the general populace.

Here we have some assumptions being made that aren't necessarily true. For example it is true that an illusion could take place. This is not a paranormal encounter however and to believe one would be incapable of telling the difference is assuming that we as humans are incapable of any form of accurate perception. Yes its true that we can be fooled. However there are some things that are not as easily created or bluffed especially with multiple witnesses. As I have stated before there is no way on earth, short of having several million dollars and a twisted motive, to recreate what I have seen. There is no possible way that what I have experienced was an illusion. I do not now haphazardly slap in the hypothesis that it must have been a hallucination on my behalf and of the others present because no other logical explanation exist. At this point "paranormal" becomes the logical explanation.

Like I said, near the end of my post, that was solely my opinion. And when you say that there is no way, there is simply no way that you can't come up with as of now. That doesn't necessarily mean that there is no possible way that it wasn't real.

What would make that for a paranormal experience would be if the blood was running against gravity and up the walls and across the ceiling. What might even back an incident like that up was that if two or more of you witnessed this same thing - ruling out hallucination. Now this is granting that such an experience did indeed occur and that someone wasn't just telling stories or tripping on drugs. Take this a little further and place yourself in this imaginary circumstance. What if the blood spelt out you and your observing friends name? To your disbelief and horror how could you account for this. How would you account for it?

That is pretty twisted, yet awesome. For something like that, I wouldn't account for it because I don't believe it could happen. If it did happen, I'm pretty sure that my opinion of the supernatural would change.

Just something to think about. Unless you want to completely disregard me as a liar I can tell you that I genuinely have seen ghost, spirits, angels, demons, etc. I have had similar unexplainable events happen throughout my life and in fact have not been alone in this. And to me since I believe in the Bible this isn't even that far fetched for the world that I live in. My true amazement goes towards God and His mercy not some phenomenon that man may actually be able to explain someday - ghost.

Anyhow, please - I'm not inviting a huge seg-way here on religious debate, etc. - I hate religion - I'm just saying its no big thing to believe in something you have grown up seeing and believe in. Has this created more room for me to fabricate these illusions - one could argue - but in light of all I have experienced and that of others I don't believe so. I'm not the only one out there that knows they have seen something. And again to your credit W/E there are also genuine deceptions and illusions. I think however that you should allow yourself some credence to the other side of the argument. Just my humble opinion. Take it or leave it.

Well, either way, I don't think that we'll ever have any totally solid proof of the existence/nonexistence of ghosts. People may experience events that sway their beliefs from one way to the other, but it has yet to hapen to me.

 

[Werewulf]

My father claims he has seen his dead brother as a ghost, the only things iv experienced were paranoid delusions that obviously arnt pleasant at all.

 

[H34DhUnT3r]

I do, it's just fun to have the idea there. Makes things more interesting, the whole "Ghost" concept.

exaclty otherwise it's so boring