Grand Theft Auto

[Slaughter]

Ever play a game of Sheep Tag? Ever join one, but then leave, because noboby wanted to be a wolf? The problem with player-controlled police is that the game then needs two kinds of balance. Winnability balance, so that it's not impossible for criminals or police to win, and worse, _fun_ balance. Maybe one side is boring, then, again, it's impossible to get games started.

Anyway, the spirit of GTA is to have retarded computer controlled cops. Warcraft will actually give them a much better AI than the one Rockstar uses. For instance, they will path _around_ obstacles instead of walking indefinitely at a wall.

 

[Erkie]

Good point. But you missed this.

we can limit the number of resources they have on hand

Secondly, the crimes will vary, we're talking, prostitutes, shootings, run overs, drugs, beatings, gang wars, and unless you want to script the possible hours on end for weeks, NPCs will only go as far as "GO HERE, KILL PLAYER WITH ALL TROOPS AND A HELICOPTER". Pretty much loses the ability to run from the police if the triggers mess up.

We can simply tell the police, as corrupt as they are, what they can and cannot do with the star levels.

 

[DDRtists]

The police have to have tanks

Thats the best part of the game

 

[Slaughter]

Agree. Question is whether to scale up the RoC steam tank or import a model. I'm thinking RoC tank, for flavor, is my recommendation.

 

[Erkie]

RoC models are very overused.

I think GTA overall is a very rich thing we'd have to pay special attention to.

 

[Rad]

You guys are making it seem to much like a cross between Loap and Footmen Wars

I wasnt home last night which is why I wasnt on msn (uareanoob & any others)

@Slaughter ~ Still no response from anyone willing to make me a car model (Or find a way to change the paths of textures so I can use the one I already made Banshee skin for, for different cars), what does this have to do with you though... Anyways, thanks for the links those are helpful. PS2 version of GTA 3 icons are much different than computer, they are white not orange... and they fit better. Not to mention many of the pictures dont look very well, the San Andreas ones look to "flash game-ish". And the Vice City ones would be the best bet, but will probrably look strange as the colors will not blend together right (Some are lighter than others and a simple recolor will still show different shades, which is hard to fix)

I will 'trace' the Vice City ones and will attach a few samples when Im ready.

 

[Slaughter]

Making it sound like Footman Wars? It is inherently LOAP-y (well actually I've never _played_ LOAP, but from what I imagine) in that you control one unit and there are plenty of NPCs (non-player characters, for non-dice-chuckers) running around trying to behave like real people. but it is nothing like Footman Wars....lol...

Tracing the Vice City icons sounds like a lot of work. But you're the 2d-image wizard around here.

In the 2d GTA games, the story was less linear than in the 3D installments. There were several gangs, and each would give the player a different series of missions. (I'm not batty, am I? That's how it worked, right?) That would work really well for this, I think. If player-team 1 gets a good reputation with the Yakuza, they start shooting at members of player-team 2, and so forth. Pretty neat, eh?

This map has the material to be a _monster_. If the workings are realistic enough, but simple enough that people can anticipate how NPCs will react to things, it will be great.

We still need a damn car model. I burned an hour getting GMax and seeing how hard it will be to model. It would be hard. I don't think I can be your modeler. T_T

So what is the win condition going to be? In old War3 GTAs you had to fight your way into the enemy base, past towers. I guess that wasn't too interesting a goal, but it is the goal in DotA, heh.

 

[Rad]

uareanoob is talking to me on MSN and asked if I would impliment the "gang vs gang" with "three gangs", then went off about wisps in a box (My god I have no idea what hes talking about :nuts: )

After reading about "making it like footman wars" and just remember playing, footman wars was entirely player vs player, nothing "role-playing" about it. I guess it would fall more into a catagory of AoS... but I aint doing that either.

----

Time to get everyone back on track, [highlight]Life in Liberty City[/highlight]© is an RPG that will be most directly related to Loap. You get jobs, whether it be a policeman or a gang member and you earn money. You steal cars, buy weapons, upgrade your car (With items that increase speed/life etc), buy a house. If you die, you can either wait for a medic to come revive you or pay a small fee to be revived at the hospital (Medics drive ambulances, NPC's unless players have the job). If you dont want to be part of the action you can be a cab driver, or an icecream man. Be a fireman if theres alot of players causing havoc. Work at the junkyard with your trusty tow truck, and smash cars to earn money. The Junkyard man also serves as a mechanic who will install/uninstall parts for your car.

The game will be highly player-run, as you can either mess up each others live or fight for prosperity, rank up in you job from cab driver to chauffeur, or as a henchman to warlord. Buy property and rent it out, or live in it.

------Read This:
Im still wondering of if I should impliment The Sims life system, like bladder energy hunger etc. Maybe take out a few of the minor ones, such as comfort because that is related to energy in many ways.

What do you guys think of this? It could add a whole new appearance to [highlight]Life[/highlight] in Liberty City.

 

[Slaughter]

Booooo! :+P You're making a pass-the-time-exploring-the-crazy-world-the-mapmaker-has-created map.

Whenever I'm working on a map, I give up when I realize I don't wouldn't want to play it any more. If this game is a big free-for-all with players that happen to have good guns wasting paramedic players every 2 seconds...LAME!

Upgrading your car? This isn't gta...you just grab a new one off the curb when you see one you like. Yeah, there are times when you can install guns and you could always buy a bomb for a car, but that further reinforces the 'disposable vehicle' system.

Be a fireman if there's a lot of players causing havoc? Not bloody likely! They'd take my damn fire engine!

In my opinion, this game could be a fun, enduring, competitive game if players are divided into two teams that compete to take over the town. Yeah, this is very AOS-y. I guess you don't want to make that?

SIMS bladder energy hunger = Boring! Ooh, there's a nice car, I should chase it down and steal it...ah, no, shit, I gotta go to the bathroom. That's not GTA!

Waaah! I want an AOS....

 

[Sargon]

Booooo! :+P You're making a pass-the-time-exploring-the-crazy-world-the-mapmaker-has-created map.

This pretty much sums it up entirely. You have to remember that this is a map, not an entire game. The problem with LoaP is that the only people worth being are the police and the mafia, because you don't have to waste tons of time doing menial jobs to get anywhere with them ("get anywhere" is defined as "get to the point where you can go out and blow stuff up"). The fun part of GTA is loading your game, buying a few guns (or using the weapons cheat, but that's not really relevant to this), and immediately going around killing stuff. So the slightly more AoS-ish idea would work better in terms of being fun to play.

Speaking of that, it should be possible to make this without it being too AoS-ish. It can be more of a single-hero-plus-a-few-units type of thing (like the thing you can do in San Andreas where you get members of your gang to follow you and help you out, only you get to control them). Maybe make it so that you can only control your guy and up to 5 other gang members at a time. The others can just be wandering around somewhere. That way, you can have more freedom of movement. Having it be like an AoS would mean that you couldn't just wander. Having it be too wandering-ish would make it so that you would have nothing useful to do (the problem, in my mind, with LoaP is that there's no objective AT ALL).

You could make it involve capturing territories. That way, once you capture all the territories, you win, or something like that. Maybe the gang members' wander-areas will expand to include areas you capture.

As for the The Sims-esque thing, hell no. That would be awful.

Remember, less is more. Ever noticed in LoaP that 60% of what is in those maps never gets used during the games? You need to find a core idea of your map and stick to it. Adding too much peripheral stuff will just end up wasting space.

 

[U are a noob]

this is what we chated about

UAREANOOB says:
sup
Rad says:
hey
UAREANOOB says:
any thing new on the GTA?
Rad says:
nope
UAREANOOB says:
 you adding my gym?
Rad says:
not yet
Rad says:
i havent even made a hero selection
UAREANOOB says:
her?
UAREANOOB says:
you doing   gangs going agasint each other>
UAREANOOB says:
there gangs
UAREANOOB says:
three gangs
Rad says:
NO
Rad says:
i dont even know why anyone started talking about that
UAREANOOB says:
y not?
Rad says:
why would I 
Rad says:
thats not what GTA is about
Rad says:
this is NOT a footman wars
UAREANOOB says:
i anit sayign a aos i say you go around and do missions but try to kill othe gangs
UAREANOOB says:
and GTA is about gangs
Rad says:
not exactly
Rad says:
the storyline is about gangs
Rad says:
you dont have to go by the storyline
UAREANOOB says:
yea
Rad says:
you can do the cop missions and stuff too
Rad says:
this isnt going to be "haha i do 3 more damage than u so ur fucked!"
Rad says:
the objective is not pvp
UAREANOOB says:
no
UAREANOOB says:
i didnt say pvp
Rad says:
omfg
Rad says:
gangs vs gangs
Rad says:
is pvp
UAREANOOB says:
its not excatly gang vs gang
UAREANOOB says:
you can make it like theres a small box and there are three colors blue red and green
UAREANOOB says:
you do mission at different places to get more  guys in the box
Rad says:
wtf 
UAREANOOB says:
you dont get it?
UAREANOOB says:
its like a fight for places
Rad says:
noooooooooooo
Rad says:
noooo!
Rad says:
you work
Rad says:
!
Rad says:
LIFE in liberty city
Rad says:
more like loap than anything else
Rad says:
this is exactly what i mean that AoS's are corrupting warcraft
Rad says:
you all want combat
UAREANOOB says:
LOL
UAREANOOB says:
that has nothin about what i was saying
UAREANOOB says:
ok let me explain
Rad says:
im NOT making it pvp
Rad says:
only if you work for a gang
Rad says:
you can be a policeman and bust people who fight
Rad says:
or be the icecream man
UAREANOOB says:
when you do a mission in a place you get like disount there and more missions you you get a wisp in a box giving you rep at the place you did the eed
Rad says:
dude
Rad says:
no starcraft systems
UAREANOOB says:
do you get what i am saying?
Rad says:
yeah
Rad says:
but that "wisp in a box" is just a nooby 8-yr-olds way of using an integer variable 
Rad says:
and its not going to be as directly gang vs gang as you all started talking about
UAREANOOB says:
ok i know but how would you show it?
UAREANOOB says:
i didnt say that
Rad says:
leaderboard ranking system
UAREANOOB says:
i said you do missions in different places
UAREANOOB says:
and the wisps in the box fight each other
Rad says:
you doing   gangs going agasint each other>
Rad says:
u said that
Rad says:
eaaarlier
Rad says:
ahh sticky key
Rad says:
wtff ?
Rad says:
i have no idea what your talking about
Rad says:
there will be no wisps!
UAREANOOB says:
ok
UAREANOOB says:
wahts your idea than?
UAREANOOB says:
ay
UAREANOOB says:
rad
Rad says:
shh posting
UAREANOOB says:
i want to turn off a keyboard shortcut how do i get rid of it?
Rad says:
what shortcut
UAREANOOB says:
this is my three shortcut
UAREANOOB says:
 
UAREANOOB says:
how do i remove?
Rad says:
click smilie button, goto more, find it and select 'remove'
UAREANOOB says:
YES finally i can press 3
Rad says:
lol
Rad says:
 
UAREANOOB says:
how do you start a chat room?
Rad says:
?
UAREANOOB says:
theres no chat rooms in msn?
  
  Erkie has been added to the conversation.
  
Rad says:
like that?
UAREANOOB says:
yea
Rad says:
click 'invite'
Rad says:
select them
Rad says:
taddaaa
UAREANOOB says:
i was talking to erkie too
Erkie says:
Yay I'm the center of attention.
Rad says:
lol
UAREANOOB says:
no
Erkie says:
Ok, Noobs, unload your ideas to me, Ill write them down.
Rad says:
invite anyone who knows about GTA
Rad says:
noobs?
Rad says:
noob*
Rad says:
lol
UAREANOOB says:
i am a pro
Rad says:
okay then noobs pretending to be pro
Rad says:
ahaa burn
Erkie says:
haha
UAREANOOB says:
i have done this for 3 years
Erkie says:
ok. Noobs is just a nickname.
Erkie says:
Unless you want it to be boobs
UAREANOOB says:
lol
UAREANOOB says:
all right whats up with the GTA/
UAREANOOB says:
?
UAREANOOB says:
is it gonna be like loap?
Erkie says:
Right now, they're doing car models, civilian cars.
Erkie says:
Like loaps, only larger.
Erkie says:
It'll have installed missions, mini things to take part of.
UAREANOOB says:
that kinda sucks
UAREANOOB says:
i thought it was like gang warfare
Erkie says:
Right, but everyone is even, unlike loap, no one has total power.
Rad says:
whoever said it was going to be gang warfare?
UAREANOOB says:
i thought so coming from gta sa was about gangs
Erkie says:
Not really.
Erkie says:
It's a side option.
Erkie says:
But it's still a fantastic idea.
Erkie says:
It's just not a major component, it all has to do with how much is involved with it.
Erkie says:
You can go out of your way to do any of these things.
UAREANOOB says:
ok
UAREANOOB says:
ill add stuff
UAREANOOB says:
y do you guys use msn?
Erkie says:
I use AIM.
Erkie says:
Rad thinks it's filthy.
Erkie says:
I never played any previous GTAs except SA, so I don't know how many cities will be involved, three gangs might be uneven.
Rad says:
AIM sucks
Erkie says:
I was thinking, everyone in the game would be allied, without vision. Vision isn't even an option.
UAREANOOB says:
no
Erkie says:
And allied is also an option.
Rad says:
if we have 3 gangs
Rad says:
it would be Yakuza Triads and the Mafia
Rad says:
i dont know if mafia had thier own name though
Erkie says:
I can make something up, it's what I do.
Erkie says:
I can make up three gangs.
Erkie says:
With ethnic backgrounds.
UAREANOOB says:
i can too
Erkie says:
All that matters is the players at this point.
Erkie says:
You and me.
UAREANOOB says:
yep
UAREANOOB says:
are we gonna have a sign up sheet?
Erkie says:
How about all players are evenly born in these cities, liberty or vice, more then one player can join in each gang. Right?
Erkie says:
So if you have two players in one gang, they're allies.
UAREANOOB says:
thats hella smart
UAREANOOB says:
yea
Erkie says:
I'll write that dow.
UAREANOOB says:
and what would be the concept?
Erkie says:
down*
UAREANOOB says:
real fighting?
Erkie says:
Well, they need regular duties, and then special duties, that only players can fulfill.
Erkie says:
Like on a regular basis they commit crimes, you can participate them and you also don't have to.
Erkie says:
And then special ones you can enact to get special things.
Erkie says:
Like a mission, "John's cocaine", go out, kill people who sold him bad cocaine, find out he was just using you, kill John, get his money and sell his cocaine.
Erkie says:
Like, you all get in a car and hit different spots around the city.
Erkie says:
That kind of thing.
Rad says:
 
Rad says:
yeah dumpdove right on the money
Rad says:
who are u on the forums again?
Rad says:
im wondering how to work the ranking systems out for all of the jobs
Erkie says:
Just Erkie.
Erkie says:
duh
Rad says:
i got the gang system kinda determined
Rad says:
after u finish X missions you rank up
Rad says:
henchman > leader > warlord
Rad says:
something like that
UAREANOOB says:
yea thats what i said
Erkie says:
Yeah. Hell yah.
Erkie says:
Ranking system.
Erkie says:
What kind of benefits when you reach the top?
UAREANOOB says:
THATS WHAT I SAID
Rad says:
lol
Rad says:
where
UAREANOOB says:
you make your own gang
Rad says:
no .
Erkie says:
Hah, too complex.
UAREANOOB says:
i said you get morewisp in a box
UAREANOOB says:
thats rankign
Rad says:
i had this idea since i started the idea of GTA
Rad says:
oh 
Rad says:
still
Rad says:
wtf is the wisp in a box for
Erkie says:
satanic ritual
UAREANOOB says:
jsut for a vison
Rad says:
lol
Rad says:
lol!
Rad says:
maybe like
Rad says:
Missions Passed, Missions Failed, Missions Incomplete?
UAREANOOB says:
yes
Rad says:
(Green, red, yellow)
Rad says:
lol
Rad says:
that can go on leaderboard
UAREANOOB says:
then can you fight each other?
UAREANOOB says:
if you want people to play you need fighting
Erkie says:
Eh...
Erkie says:
A leaderboard is a bit obnoxious.
Erkie says:
It just hangs there. You'll know what they're doing and where.
UAREANOOB says:
yea
Erkie says:
It's better when you run into the gang or go into the city and they tell you who's boss.
Rad says:
>>You'll know what they're doing and where.
Rad says:
explain 
UAREANOOB says:
when a person walks next to a guy on the street and talks
UAREANOOB says:
the guy tells what he heard
Rad says:
your getting a little unrealistic now 
UAREANOOB says:
hell no
Erkie says:
I don't know what noobs is talking about, BUT, it just looks obnoxious, I mean, when you play games with leaderboards it'll give you a sense of where the game is at and whos at the top, and I hate that feeling.
Erkie says:
That's just not what I see with GTA. It's all open range.
Erkie says:
There should be a place to ask for this knowledge.
Erkie says:
Request the knowledge, it pops up and leaves.
UAREANOOB says:
WTF
Erkie says:
Like when you go into the menu.
UAREANOOB says:
thats what i said
Erkie says:
Asking someone on the street?
UAREANOOB says:
you walk to a guy point your gun and he tells you what he heard
Erkie says:
Eh.
Erkie says:
Too much scripting.
Rad says:
oh
Rad says:
erkie
Rad says:
leaderboards are PERSONAL leaderboards
Rad says:
(multiboards cant be personal)
Erkie says:
Oh, well... Be specific. Dam it.
Rad says:
sorry ol
Erkie says:
haha
Erkie says:
OK, anyways. The personal leaderboards goes in.
UAREANOOB says:
i say we have some real fighting
Rad says:
i have it now so that it shows health and energy(mana), and speed/current speed
Rad says:
and
Rad says:
and 
Rad says:
and   
Rad says:
dam
Rad says:
i had another i forgot what it was
Rad says:
lol
UAREANOOB says:
how bout we have real fighting?
Erkie says:
Like how.
Erkie says:
dude, go into specifics.
Erkie says:
Take your time, we're not ignoring you.
UAREANOOB says:
ok lets see
UAREANOOB says:
first you have the gangs fight each other
Rad says:
speak for urself erkie
Rad says:
loll joking
UAREANOOB says:
person who dies drops arandom item
UAREANOOB says:
but the person who dies gets lwts say more money from his "boss" so he can take care of the guy who killed him
Erkie says:
So double bounty for revenge.
Rad says:
dududude
Rad says:
no
Rad says:
if you kill someone they drop thier money
Rad says:
but u can store it in the bank
Rad says:
or at ur hideout
Rad says:
(through coins)
UAREANOOB says:
ok
UAREANOOB says:
works greaat
Erkie says:
So, about these "Jobs", like regular civilian jobs?
Rad says:
and the weapon you are using too
Erkie says:
Right.
Rad says:
mostly
Rad says:
policeman, ice cream man, paramedic
Rad says:
mechanic
Rad says:
gang member
Erkie says:
I'd recommend few low end jobs that turn into something more sophisticated.
Erkie says:
Gang member... You just get more reputation.
Erkie says:
Like security dude... To an FBI agent.
Erkie says:
School Nurse to a paramedic
Erkie says:
Grease monkey to mechanic. That'd be awesome.
Erkie says:
You don't think working for the man would undermine anything?
UAREANOOB says:
thats petty good
UAREANOOB says:
how bout a mission for stealing cars?
Erkie says:
Yeah, sure, with the gangs more so.
Erkie says:
I'll write this down.
Rad says:
yep
Erkie says:
I was thinking of a life system for civilians.
Erkie says:
And it'd be large, but all we'd have to do is multiply it.
UAREANOOB says:
i got an idea we put a guy in called rad and he has 1 life and who kills him gets 1coin
Rad says:
i got fist, bat, pistol, and uzi icons
Erkie says:
Like it has needs that are always decreasing, and just as they are down, they are replenished by having the civilian go out to a store, getting supplies, and returning it home. Essentially, just moving cars from one place to another, wait until it's low, and repeat.
Erkie says:
House Need > Civilian to Car > Car to Shop > Car from Shop to home
Rad says:
GASOLINE
Rad says:
WRITE THAT DOWN
Rad says:
lol
Erkie says:
Yessir!
Erkie says:
But it'd give the people in each city a purpose for driving on the street.
Erkie says:
If you stalked them, they'd go somewhere, and have things for you to steal.
Rad says:
well
Rad says:
i had a random system 
Rad says:
like when a unit enters an intersection just randomize a direction
Rad says:
if its an entrance to a store have a 10% chance to go to the store (and exit vehicle)
UAREANOOB says:
i have a bettre idea we have a slot open for god
UAREANOOB says:
its a job
Erkie says:
Hell no.
Erkie says:
Everything is achieved by the player.
Rad says:
omfg
UAREANOOB says:
but when you get the job you get 1 coin for every mission while others get 10
Rad says:
uareanoob
Rad says:
gods are for 8 year olds who dont know what real games are
Rad says:
they are the people who leave the last 5 seconds of countdown
Rad says:
they are the people who leave because someone else leaves!
UAREANOOB says:
lol
Rad says:
its true
Erkie says:
I really have to run, but if any of you have any ideas, please send them directly to [email protected] even if they're incomplete sentences, and I'll log them.
Rad says:
lol
Erkie says:
Later.
Rad says:
k
  
  Erkie has left the conversation.
  
UAREANOOB says:
now what?
Rad says:
i dont know im doing icons
UAREANOOB says:
you ever play marvel vs capcom?
Rad says:
dude rejoin in wc3
UAREANOOB says:
what?
Rad says:
errrrr
Rad says:
wrong person
Rad says:
lol
UAREANOOB says:
o
UAREANOOB says:
 
Rad says:
 
Rad says:
 
UAREANOOB winks:
 
Play "Bow"
UAREANOOB says:
virus
UAREANOOB says:
do you like aos's
UAREANOOB says:
?
UAREANOOB says:
RAD
UAREANOOB says:
RAD
Rad says:
no
Rad says:
byeeee!!!!!1

 

[Sargon]

Hmm, after reading that chatlog I think that I've changed my mind regarding the form of the game. However, I definitely think that there should be some sort of point, or at least some way for the game to end besides everyone leaving. Maybe after some long period of time (30 minutes? 1 hour?), the game tallies up all of everyone's accomplishments, and using some complicated algorithym determines who won? That'd be kinda neat.

My point about cluttering the map still stands, though. And the thing about the Sims system.

And one other thing: uareanoob, do you have some sort of wisp-in-box obsession?

 

[U are a noob]

lol no i dont like wisp

 

[Slaughter]

Ahaha. Rad wants to play LoaP and nobody wants to play with him. Rad, when you finish, can I take all your skins and models and make something that's fun? :+P Don't get discouraged...LoaP has an audience...I'm just not interested in playing it.

A note about GTA: the various vehicle based missions that you can go on (cab driver, ice cream man, vigilante, firefighter, paramedic), they are a SMALL part of the game. Driving the cab is _boring_. These are just some cool things that you can do when you have certain cars, they aren't the meat of the game. If I were making firefighter missions and vigilante missions, I would for instance have the fires be unrelated to those caused by players. Pick a random point until you find one the players don't have sight of, and create a fire there. In 1-player GTA, you can't create fires and put them out for cash in firefighter missions. You have to put out fires created for the purpose of being fought by a player in a firetruck.

In GTA, you don't decide whether to be a firefighter or a paramedic or a thief. You play the whole game as a hoodlum, getting into different kinds of mischief.

The one-team-versus-another scheme is for the purpose of pure competition. I know why people around here don't like DotA, but ... I'm going to go make a thread, or bump an old one, because this will get off topic.

Edit: For this discussion, go here.

 

[Jazradel]

I'll make a car for if you want. I'll also do the pathchanging and other stuff like that.

 

[Rad]

Jazradel that would be great.

Ahaha. Rad wants to play LoaP and nobody wants to play with him. Rad, when you finish, can I take all your skins and models and make something that's fun?

Your off my project list.

-----

Jazradel if you could still make the models that would be great, Im not going to stop working on it. Just send me a PM with link or contact me on MSN/Email.

One thing you ALL fail to see is that if you do something good enough it doesnt have to be like the rest to be fun... Where the hell do you get the idea that paramedics are going to be helpless? Thats what the cops are for! If there was no jobs then you couldnt buy good weapons. Upgrading cars is just for the mechanics job...

Ehh, oh well. Threads closed. Jazradel if you make a good model you will be the only one actually working on the project with me.

[highlight]Do not send me a PM about ANYTHING related to my project[/highlight]
(excluding Jazradel)

[highlight]Thread closed[/highlight]​