Homosexuality: A social decision or a physical instinct?

[BlowingKush]

100,000 years or so of evolution and it turns out that some men like men. Is it a physical thing or a social choice? Is there a genetic anomaly that occurs in some males that bring about gayness, or is it just men wearing really tight pants?

 

[TFlan]

A bit touchy, bias debate topic, don't you think? You need to be careful with this. The way you approached this topic just sounds demeaning (Especially the pants, I like tight/slim-fit jeans, but I'm not homosexual, they're just comfortable, and I see guys walking around school with skin tight jeans who are with women).

In my opinion homosexuality, both in men and women, is not a defect, disease, or any other synonym. It's genetic and environmental, could be caused from childhood situations that put the child against a certain sex, it could just be "I like my own sex, and I don't know why." (genetic). There are many different possible reason why many people are gay, but trying to find a "cause" to it, makes it sound like a disease that should be squashed, which is wrong.

I have a lesbian friend, she has no underlying environmental reason, that I know of, that would make her reject men; She just prefers women over men. Not that we have ever talked about why shes homosexual, but I frankly don't care, if that's how she rolls, then that's how she rolls.

 

[Zakyath]

Even many animals are homosexual. It's natural, nothing wrong with it. Dunno why people become gay, or if they're born gay. But they are - why not accept it?

 

[BlowingKush]

In my opinion....

The fact that it sounds like of disease is kinda the whole crux of the debate.
But I do not agree that evaluating something attaches demeanor to it.Anytime there is an oddity, act, or minority in society, especially one that undermines human naturalism, is going to be subject to scrutiny. To argue that something can not be analyzed because of risk of alienation or condemnation is wrong, and sounds to me like a self-sustaining, impenetrable argument to justify ones position. I wouldn't try to legalize sex with horses and pronounce it as an environmental situation that I have become accustom too, therefore noone should take offense or discuss. What if gayness was a disease? How would we know if we never investigated? Don't get me wrong. I agree with you, different holes for different poles, but I wouldn't ever be so confident in my choice that I wouldnt expect scrutiny.

btw. The pants thing was a joke/sarcasm
Although yes, I too, really enjoy a tight pair of pants. I believe it is important to accentuate your physique, sometimes, in order to attract the opposite sex. Or I guess sometimes, the same sex. Also I believe it is important to let the opposite sex have some clue as to the size and scope of ones package, in the event that a possible mate is undecided and needs further information so that they can make an informed decision.

 

[Kershbob]

Both. You can raise a child to be homosexual quite easily if you put them under the right environmental stresses; but yeah it's going to be based partially on genetics of course.

As a weird pro-Ancient Greek moralist, I don't see anything odd with homosexuality in the slightest. As a naturalist, I see our closest relative (the Bonobo) rampantly have sex with the same gender to fix social problems so I see no problem with homosexuality again.

I never see this as a debate; it's more of a straight answer - both genetics and environment can most probably sway a humans sexual orientation during development.

 

[Seb!]

I never see this as a debate; it's more of a straight answer - both genetics and environment can most probably sway a humans sexual orientation during development.

Very true. And even if every homosexual was making everything up to get a select group of ignorant religious fanatics angry, government would have no right to legislate against it.

 

[Kershbob]

Very true. And even if every homosexual was making everything up to get a select group of ignorant religious fanatics angry, government would have no right to legislate against it.

Thinking you can delegalise specific lifestyle issues of a homosexuals life is ridiculous anyway in a modern world; once again this is just a fundamentalist fueled arguement that only actually "rages" in the US.

 

[Pharaoh_]

It's something we started getting used to. At least i can see hundreds of them in Greece, where we are still supposed to be somehow 'against' it. I could swear though that 5 years before views in Greece were far more obsolete. I won't talk about Greece though, since it is a global -of course- thing.
I do not seperate a human being just because he likes men or just because she likes women. Even so, i have learnt much of 'these' people, so i know there is nothing wrong with it.

Studying Psychology has also helped me find a way in such thing, since we need to understand humans from any aspect. So, scientifically, gay people are what it is said before: genetics/ environment. I believe environment does not have such strong affection on a child than genetics. Of course, genetics are shown and being 'developed' within an environment and that's why environment is considered as a heavy cause as well.

It has become a little obnoxious though for some people to state 'No, i am not gay, i am bi'. Well, suddenly being a bisexual became fashion and hot news...! I really don't understand that. 78% of men in USA state that they had had sexual contact with a person of the same sex once in their life. Another 10% that they pictured such thing when it came to masturbation and another 12% either didn't want to answer or had no relation at all. 78% admits it though that there was that 'something' and still, most of that 78% are those who begin rumors against homosexual people. I really don't know how to react against them, because they trully suck.

On the part of being a bisexual though, it sounds like the person is not mature enough to know what he/she really wants. I can understand this "I wanna go with both sexes", but when it comes to 40 year-old and over people, i believe it is called 'lack of maturity'. I was recently surfing a web-page that is specialized in finding a 'gay-lover' (strictly for men); you can never imagine how many of them were already married and the most common titles were "Married man seeking for a fit and good-looking boy/guy". Yes, for me this is kind of sick, but damn this is what they want and this is not what bothers me, it bothers me when it comes to their public life, that they keep swearing at gay people, when they do experience the same things almost every day. Oh well..

Finally, i would like to mention that not all homosexual people are the same. Certainly most of them own characteristics that refer to a woman but there is also a huge amount of them that act like normal men. Don't make them get away, well, i admit some of them stick out a mile, but that's not a reason to keep them in distance. Actually, many people started liking hanging out with homosexual people, because they learnt stuff a normal guy has no interest in.

P.S.: I watched a movie lately, it is called "Shelter", it's about two guys, one of them is already 'bi' and the other is totally straight. The second guy will fall in love with the 'bi' guy, after some stuff happening there. I could say it became one of my favourite movies and no, it won't turn you into gay, but i would like you to see how normal men gay people sometimes are. There is nothing 'gayish' in this movie, trust me and i think you gonna like it. Try it and maybe -if you have any- all those pathetic views of yours will go away. Critics from even straight men (for this movie) were tooo good. It's not comedy, it is a social/drama and relaxing movie -oh, you may cry in some points, if you are too sensitive- . Yes, do not blame then yourself for crying in a gay-themed movie, blame the good job of the director's.

 

[BlowingKush]

Brokeback Mountain made me cry and I think it might make people gay.

 

[Kershbob]

I don't think it's bisexuality that's come into fashion; more like questioning bisexuals that have. One of my good friends is bisexual and it's not some phase or her being indecisive - it's just an honest attraction to members of both sex that she sees as desirable.

Plus we have the same taste in women so that's coo'.

 

[Lord_Phoenix]

Even many animals are homosexual. It's natural, nothing wrong with it. Dunno why people become gay, or if they're born gay. But they are - why not accept it?

Which animals? The only animals I know of that could be considered to be "homosexual" can actually physically change they're gender to reproduce... I.E. a female turning into a male... and even then it's to reproduce and survive...

As far as I know there isn't enough evidence to prove either a social or genetic cause of homosexuality, of course I haven't been keeping up to date with latest scientific information so I don't know if it's theres any new evidence or not.

 

[BlowingKush]

I think most men go gay because most woman are superficial, fixated on being beautiful, and trying to act "important".

Gay men seem to live life a lot more fulfillingly.

 

[Seb!]

I think most men go gay because most woman are superficial, fixated on being beautiful, and trying to act "important"..

Or maybe it's because they're actually gay...

 

[monoVertex]

I think most men go gay because most woman are superficial, fixated on being beautiful, and trying to act "important".

I do think that most women are superficial, fixated on being beautiful, and trying to act "important", but that won't make me go gay :nuts:.

 

[TheDamien]

The suggestion that homosexuality is a social decision is really too ridiculous to merit serious debate or discussion.

Which animals? The only animals I know of that could be considered to be "homosexual" can actually physically change they're gender to reproduce... I.E. a female turning into a male... and even then it's to reproduce and survive...

Wikipedia has a pretty good list of animals that have been known to display homosexual behavior.

 

[WastedSavior]

Over the years I've known and been friends with many who are gay or bisexual. Not once has any of them ever said to me that their attraction to the same gender was 'genetic'. I'm not actually aware of how this mythical genetic disease came to be a widely known, but it has no scientific founding. Every study that has proposed the idea is doing so on pure speculation,
And the studies that have claims of evidence coincidentally cannot be replicated in the scientific community.


It is simply sexual attraction. Someone liking others of their gender is no different from me liking skinny short haired girls, or someone who is attracted to animals or technology, It has nothing to do with genes.

 

[emjlr3]

let me put it this way - there is no way I Could make myself be attracted to a man

 

[Kershbob]

Over the years I've known and been friends with many who are gay or bisexual. Not once has any of them ever said to me that their attraction to the same gender was 'genetic'. I'm not actually aware of how this mythical genetic disease came to be a widely known, but it has no scientific founding. Every study that has proposed the idea is doing so on pure speculation,
And the studies that have claims of evidence coincidentally cannot be replicated in the scientific community.

I'm almost certain you can make someone more prone to be homosexual genetically. Hormone levels? Alteration of psychological development of self?

Just give me a giraffe and okapi genome and a few years and I'll get cracking on the sexual stuff.

 

[WastedSavior]

let me put it this way - there is no way I Could make myself be attracted to a man

You'd be surprised what you become comfortable with when you are subjected to a certain situation. You can convince anyone of anything with psychological terrorism.

I'm almost certain you can make someone more prone to be homosexual genetically. Hormone levels? Alteration of psychological development of self?

Just give me a giraffe and okapi genome and a few years and I'll get cracking on the sexual stuff.

1st - What does Alteration of Psychological Development of Self have to do with genetics?
2nd - Altering someones hormone levels is not a pre-determined genetic trait that dictates your sexual orientation.
3rd - I'm not quite sure if you even meant to quote my post, Your argument would make more sense in reference to emjlr3's reply.

 

[Kershbob]

Well; I'm not too interested in the subject but I firmly believe every part of psychology is at least related to a persons genetics - be it mechanical in proteins or a more complex system of stimuli response alteration. I find it wrong to state that something has no genetic basis.

The fact that certain species can be seen to be more inclined to same gender sex is proof enough that it can't be completely based on environmental factors. Otherwise the spread of homosexuality throughout the human population would be a lot less even due to cultural barriers (as it can be presumed some environments would cause homosexuality less/more).

It's not a crutch to say genetics is partly responsible - genetics is partly responsible for everything about a person.