Science Human evolution at the crossroads

[SD_Ryoko]

Scientists are fond of running the evolutionary clock backward, using DNA analysis and the fossil record to figure out when our ancestors stood erect and split off from the rest of the primate evolutionary tree.

But the clock is running forward as well. So where are humans headed?

Evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins says it's the question he's most often asked, and "a question that any prudent evolutionist will evade." But the question is being raised even more frequently as researchers study our past and contemplate our future.

Rise of the superhumans?
Merging with the machines?
Turning into an alien race?

 

[Jindo]

Freaky for some reason.

I saw a few things before and found once on the news of small bones which DNA showed that it was some kind of ancester of ours which lived in the dinosaur times.
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Picture that 4x bigger and that is what we were like 1000000s of years ago.

~Jindo

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rated 5/5 for mapping​

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[DM Cross]

Rise of the superhumans?
Merging with the machines?
Turning into an alien race?

First off, define a "super" human. You meet people all the time with weird abilities. Take contortionists (I know that's spelled wrong, sound it out, the people who bend in freaky ways ) for example. They're body structure is different then the majority of people, thus are they "super" human? Or just different?

Lol, it's interesting though, to think of a world with "mutants" Like in the X-Men comics and stuff like that. (At least, I think that's what the author of the article was aiming at. Not that specifically, but the general idea)

Second: Merging with machines? ... Haven't we already started that? Aren't there people out there in the world who have metal plates in their head, prostetic (again, sound it out, basically fake) limbs and stuff? What about machines like pace-makers (or whatever they're called) Those are all machines, and we use them in our bodies to help us cope with injury.

If, however, the author was aiming for more ADVANCED machinery, then deffinately. If it'll keep us alive, I think human beings will jump at the chance. If you could survive losing your arm, and have surgery to attach a cyborg type arm to your shoulder, would you? I would.

Lastly: You are an alien Think about it: Let's say tomorrow we discover a hidden city of Martians on Mars (this is just an example, don't take it to be all technical and serious) Well...To the martians, they're "normal", and you're an the alien race. If there are other races of intelligent life out there (and I strongly believe there is) then you're already an alien. Not much to turn into, now is there?

 

[R15I23D05D14]

The assumption that I disagree with is this idea radical change is enevitable. Once we were microbes, then fish, then mice, then apes, then now (really basic and innaccurate summery). This is all very well. But the timespan is immense. Since the .. say ... start of recorded history, has the human race changed? In a big way? We still have the same number of arms and legs. Limbs in the same spot. All the same organs. Evolution means more than different pigments used in the skin or other minor cosmetic differences.
Change comes with enviromental pressure (not nessicccarily the natural enviroment. Any occurence could theoretically trigger evolution). My opinion (bibliography: based on theories of others) of the step from ape to now was changed climatic conditions killing off trees in an area of Africa. The apes that walked better survived better than the others and so walking became the norm. 'Surivied better' does not nessiccarily mean the tiny difference between I and my neighbor. It means that one had noticably more children because of any reason. Just because I can live for 200 years does not help my evolutionary chain if I do not have children.

Evolution at this stage in time means that groups such as the Asians and Catholics will simply outbreed everyone else and thus be the next stage in evolution. Mutations will not be anything interesting and new. How would being able to shoot poisonous venome for saliva help us survive? We would just end up in jail! We may devolve, because of some wierd group working to preserve damaged genetic stock, but I find this unlikely.

Merging with machines? Possible, but if we do then the human race is choosing a dangerous path. For further reading see George Orwell's "1984".

 

[Sargon]

Yeah, that's the problem with predictions like this one. People think that we'll be changing really quickly because we're "so different from the cavemen." Well, genetically speaking, we're exactly the same as the cavemen (well, the Cro-Magnon ones, at least). The cavemen could be as tall and smart and so on as us if they had our technology, society, etc. Hell, they probably were as smart as us, they just led much, much simpler lives with less of a need for sitting around and thinking.

 

[DM Cross]

The assumption that I disagree with is this idea radical change is enevitable. Once we were microbes, then fish, then mice, then apes, then now (really basic and innaccurate summery). This is all very well. But the timespan is immense. Since the .. say ... start of recorded history, has the human race changed? In a big way? We still have the same number of arms and legs. Limbs in the same spot. All the same organs. Evolution means more than different pigments used in the skin or other minor cosmetic differences.

You're forgetting something. The use of technology. Also, I made a few statements stand out, and for a reason.
Has the human race changed? Well, as a whole? Not really. Singular individuals who are known as "defects"? Yeah, they pop up all the time. I'm a defect. Was born with a birth defect. I'm not RADICALLY different, like having extra fingers or limbs, but I was born different from the majority of humanity.
Still have the same number/position of things? Well, not everyone These things are becoming more and more common, things like extra fingers, or disfigured bodies. All of this is a result of alien substances in the body (usually, that's how it was for me)

Evolution at this stage in time means that groups such as the Asians and Catholics will simply outbreed everyone else and thus be the next stage in evolution. Mutations will not be anything interesting and new. How would being able to shoot poisonous venome for saliva help us survive? We would just end up in jail! We may devolve, because of some wierd group working to preserve damaged genetic stock, but I find this unlikely.

How does bending backward so that your head is next to your ankles help you survive? How does extra fingers help you survive? Change, nowadays, is not always the result of survival necessity. Rather, it is due to, as I stated above, alien substances. Genetics. Technology.

Merging with machines? Possible, but if we do then the human race is choosing a dangerous path. For further reading see George Orwell's "1984".

Ever seen "The Matrix" triology? Also a very good (obviously fictional) reference. The people were born with genetically restructured bodies, to have plugs throughout their bodies. They weren't born, they were grown. For lack of a better term, they were technically cyborgs.

-Sargon-

Yeah, that's the problem with predictions like this one. People think that we'll be changing really quickly because we're "so different from the cavemen." Well, genetically speaking, we're exactly the same as the cavemen (well, the Cro-Magnon ones, at least). The cavemen could be as tall and smart and so on as us if they had our technology, society, etc. Hell, they probably were as smart as us, they just led much, much simpler lives with less of a need for sitting around and thinking.

No, they weren't as smart as us. Well, yes and no. They had the POTENTIAL to be as smart as us. But they weren't. At least not yet.

 

[SD_Ryoko]

For sure, this was an interesting article. A bit length though.

Super humans
I beleive what the author was trying to convey, is that a combination of genetics, medical advances, and genetic engineering could lead to a 'super human' status. Funny using Barry Bonds as an example.

Merging with Machines
Yes, the author of this one also pointed out replacement limbs, biotech, and other things like pacemakers. But I think he is talking on a more serious level. See he talks about transistors and microchips, I think he is leaning torwards true cybertech. Like implanting chips in our brains and becomming half human.

All these concepts - Machines, Genetic Engineering, Growing human cells - Aliens..

SCARES ME.

While these 'advances' could lead to very good things.... they could lead to very BAD BAD things.

Genetic crime. Genetic mutations. Freak accidents and horrible things. Machines taking our body parts and processing us in plants.. Planet colonies revolting, and comming BACK to conquer us years later. Or waging war on us; sending nukes from space.

Everyone takes 'Terminator' for entertainment value. The people DOING this research never step back and say, "What the hell are we doing!?"

(on another note)
I was always... pro-space colony, the concept of populating other planets. We need to get the hell off this rock. Asteroids big enough to destroy us 'near-miss' us on a yearly basis. Some 200 of them.

NOW I see, the closest planet system, would take 1000 years at 6.7million MPH, forget it. NVM!

 

[DM Cross]

For sure, this was an interesting article. A bit length though.

Evolution always is, man There's no "Yes, you're right" or "No, you're wrong"... You can come up with something insane, and it's still be arguable.

Super humans
I beleive what the author was trying to convey, is that a combination of genetics, medical advances, and genetic engineering could lead to a 'super human' status. Funny using Barry Bonds as an example.

Ah, in this case, my ideas weren't very good But then, I guess I raise a new topic: What about mutation? Genetic screw ups that result in extra abilities and stuff like that?

Merging with Machines
Yes, the author of this one also pointed out replacement limbs, biotech, and other things like pacemakers. But I think he is talking on a more serious level. See he talks about transistors and microchips, I think he is leaning torwards true cybertech. Like implanting chips in our brains and becomming half human.

I think it's possible. Again, gotta refer to Matrix:
"If real is what you smell, touch and see, then real is nothing more then electrical signal interprited by your brain."
All you have to do is find a way to manipulate it all.

All these concepts - Machines, Genetic Engineering, Growing human cells - Aliens..

SCARES ME.

While these 'advances' could lead to very good things.... they could lead to very BAD BAD things.

Another movie quote, in which case I agree
"Used properly, everyone benefits. Used improperly, and... Well...We're all screwed."

Genetic crime. Genetic mutations. Freak accidents and horrible things. Machines taking our body parts and processing us in plants.. Planet colonies revolting, and comming BACK to conquer us years later. Or waging war on us; sending nukes from space.

Everyone takes 'Terminator' for entertainment value. The people DOING this research never step back and say, "What the hell are we doing!?"

What about Genetic enforcement? What about "superpowering" the police squad to combat anyone doing something wrong with their genetic encoding enhancements? These things are always complicated, but in the end, all they do is create more dangerous versions of situations we already know today. As for space war, I believe that to be inevitable. We war all over our planet, our (for now) only place to survive. You think that won't happen if we move around a bit? Hell, I think it'll get worse. Much worse.

 

[XXXconanXXX]

50 years ago, humans msot likely thought the same thing. "OMG space nukes and cyborgs taking over the world."

Crime will always be out there, and use the technology we use today. BUT the government and country in whole will always be a step ahead. If someone sent nukes froms pace, we'd most likely know it and find ways to stop it. And, "shit happens", so i wouldn't worry about it becuase you'll probably be dead in the next few years anways. (Kidding)

It's cvool to think about the future, but it never scares me, because it'll most likely be hundreds of years before that happens.

 

[Shadowy Fear]

Lol, sending colony ships out to space only to have them come back and nuke us?

We could always build a starship and 'freeze' human embryos on it, then create a program that would nuture them into human infants and teach them everything they needed to know ...

Of course, they'd probably be mad as hell for us dooming them to isolation on some far-away rock, not even nessacarily favorable (habitatle, maybe, like arctic-cold conditions in the peak of summer, but definately not favorable) and send nukes back on the same spaceship.

Five well-placed nuclear missles and you could either obliberate a single country (bad), take out the capitals of five, preferably superpowers (badder), or start a nuclear war (worst).

There is always the possibility an alien ship might land at the White House and the alien emerge, and then an idiot would run up and flick off the aliens, who would then be highly offended and show their anger by sending a 100 gigaton antimatter warhead into the moon, disrupting its orbit and causing Earth's gravity well to pull it in; the result would be massive earthquakes, horrendous tidal waves like the ones that struck Indonesia on a daily basis, gravity being significantly altered in the area, and finally end with the destruction of the Earth.

I'm SUCH a cheerful guy, huh?

 

[R15I23D05D14]

Go the alien theorist. My view is we are stuck on this rock. At least it is a nice rock. Spacecradt are too much energy to get off the ground. I think the human race lasts until the sun explodes. Then we and our rock are gone.

Conan is right on the "always gloomy" approach. You know old people and the "better in the old days" {NB, extremely steriotyped. I apologise for my bias. At least I say sorry} line. When? WWII? WWI? Kingdoms run on oppressed serfs? Many happy tribes engaged in viscious conflict? Not much "good old days". Lots of great wars, though.

On the subject of superhumans - I believe this matter man should not meddle with {or woman, take your pick}. Life does not have a purpose {see manual, p. 1}, but everyone being identical is a bit boring. There will be a number of acceptable traits, and that will be all.

Alexander points out that change is no longer just nessecity - alien substances bein introduced, like new genetic technology, accidental radiation, could cause evolution. This is a good argument. In the old days then the change would either quickly vanish from natural 'picky' breeding. Now in a more capable and charitable world such things may survive - but I believe that chance mutations such as these will allways be an extreme minority.

Matrix - great movie. Wish I had thought of it. . Sorry to hear about defect. Hope doesn't affect you much.

I feel several of the posts do not like the idea of man meddling in these things. I agree, but someday we will get a scientidst like Hitler...

 

[Shadowy Fear]

Did you know that a girl before the tweentith century was born with ONE eye?

She lived a perfectly happy life, aside being shunned, avoided, and called a freak, and would have gone on to have 1 or 1 1/2 eyed children - if she hadn't died at age 13.

Science has pretty much destroyed HUMAN evolution. We are spread around the planet so much now that, for say, if a meteor hit Japan and destroed the entire archapilego, would there be no more Japannese in the world? The devastating tsunami - is that the end of their civilization? Will their genes be left behind in the human stream of evolution? I think not.

For medicine, we are literally CREATING new strains of viruses by coming out with more medications. Some have random DNA mutations that lead to them becoming entirely new strains of a disease.

If everyone who had AIDS in the world suddenly died RIGHT NOW (from alexander), then HEY, no more AIDS! (we can only hope)

Eventually, if our space technology is perfected, we will indeed be able to get off of this rock.

And we wouldn't die when the sun exploded because we would be dead LOOONG before then.

The sun would expand and become a red giant star - it would expand so much that Venus and Mercury would be engulfed by it, and the Earth come so close that it would become a new Mercury (oceans boil away, radiation killing millions every hour, polar ice caps melt away, atmosphere evaporates, gravity altered, no biggy).

 

[Sargon]

First off, the one-eyed girl would not have had one- or one-point-five eyed children unless the mutation was actually in her genetic code. I know a guy whose right arm ends right below his elbow. His children will have both arms. Why? Because his birth defect was not a genetic one.

The sun, by the way, is too small to explode. It will, as Shadowy Fear said, expand a huge amount, but after that it will eventually shrink a ton and become a dwarf star.

 

[SD_Ryoko]

If everyone who had AIDS in the world suddenly died RIGHT NOW (from alexander), then HEY, no more AIDS! (we can only hope)

Wouldn't BE A problem if people who had it stopped having sex. The sodomites, africans, and hookers who are too poor and addicted to drugs and needles can't stop, and are going to ruin it for the rest of us.

[Don't forget the people who intentionally give it to others out of spite of their own misfortune]

AIDS is a 'cleansing' disease - it could be seen as a good thing. Just doesn't work fast enough. Think about where its most common:

-Drugs and needles and crack hoes (chikinhed)
-Irresponcible sex, porn, and prostitution
-Africa, where food doesn't grow but people insist to try anyway.

 

[Sargon]

Modern medicine certainly can thwart evolution though. Take the appendix. If we didn't know how to remove people's appendices (I guess that's the word), we'd have fewer of them around today.

 

[DM Cross]

Wouldn't BE A problem if people who had it stopped having sex. The sodomites, africans, and hookers who are too poor and addicted to drugs and needles can't stop, and are going to ruin it for the rest of us.

[Don't forget the people who intentionally give it to others out of spite of their own misfortune]

AIDS is a 'cleansing' disease - it could be seen as a good thing. Just doesn't work fast enough. Think about where its most common:

-Drugs and needles and crack hoes (chikinhed)
-Irresponcible sex, porn, and prostitution
-Africa, where food doesn't grow but people insist to try anyway.

THANK YOU! People always call me evil and sick when I say stuff like this

Due to modern medicine, people who shouldn't be surviving are. Want an exmaple? Me. I was born with a birth defect that SHOULD have prevented me from proper breast feeding. I should have starved and died. But modern medicine saved me. (I know, sad, isn't it? ) So, because "Survival of the fitest" no longer exists, people are being born who shouldn't last. Diseases are being cured that should be handling the population of the world. Over population is such a big problem. So is the lack of resources. You let a thing like AIDS go, and five bucks say in about a year, you're going to have a LOT less people to worry about.

It's the same thing like the tsunami. How many people died? 150,000? (I haven't made this argument in a long time, so I may have forgotten the numbers and other details) Well, one of my friends in school made a comment a little after the tsunami that we should save electricity for the survivors. My response?

"150,000 people just got wiped off the face of the planet, kid. I don't think they're going to be using electricity any time soon. There's your "saved" electricity. Enjoy."

 

[phyrex1an]

"150,000 people just got wiped off the face of the planet, kid. I don't think they're going to be using electricity any time soon. There's your "saved" electricity. Enjoy."

^^

But to the rest: apperently you belong to the group of the fitest othervise you should be dead. Fitiest doesnt mean ability to survive for 3000 years ago it means ability to survive in the envirment that is to day. And apperenty you are a surviver in todays human world.

But ofcourse when we talk about the fittiest we dont mean a singel person we mean the whole race "human" and human is not very adapted to survive a big change in our life.

As a last comment:
On well know scientist ( dont remember who ) give human civilisation as it is today 50% chanse to survive the next 100 years.

 

[DM Cross]

You can argue what survival of the fittest means, I suppose.

A lot of people say modern medicine and our technology is our form of survival. That's how we adapt, how we keep ourselves safe. I understand how you would think that, but I call it crap.

Survival of the fittest means surviving. Not destroying along with it. Believe it or not, I'm very pro-environmentalist. I'm not one myself (hell, no one's perfect I litter every now and again, I used to smoke so I can't claim to be the ozone's friend...) but I do realize the importance of the world around us. Surviving should mean keeping yourself safe, staying alive, not cutting down forests to do it. You kill when you're hungry, or in danger. That's it. Hunting isn't a sport, in my opinion, unless you're just flat out stupid. You shouldn't have to cut down trees if you can find shelter other ways.

I'm not saying it'd be easy. I'm not saying it'd always be fair. Like I said, I was born different. The reason, though, wasn't genetics. The reason was because my mother used to smoke, and she was smoking while pregenant with me. For this reason, I came out with my birth defect. Technology is what screws it all up.

Think of the Indians. They survived for ages while being at peace with the land around them. I have no doubt they'd still be surviving just fine now, if the Europeans didn't screw them over with, GASP, technology.

 

[phyrex1an]

You can argue what survival of the fittest means, I suppose.

Well, yes.

When can something be called fittiest? After they have survived 100 years? no
10 000? no 100 000? maybee. 500 000? There is plenty of races that have died after 500 000 years on earth. 10 000 000? There is no race that have been the same for so many years... ( I think)

The only way to be called fittiest is the ability to adabt VERy quickly to changes and the only being that is VERY fast to adapt is virus and some scientist doesnt call virus a living thing.

The best vay to adabt is to have very few things to change. And humans have a LOT things to change. I cant say that i think humans will survive on earth for many years from now.

Think of the Indians. They survived for ages while being at peace with the land around them. I have no doubt they'd still be surviving just fine now, if the Europeans didn't screw them over with, GASP, technology.

Well, for a short period of time they wasnt the fittiest... And that I am very sorry for. I think humanity shoult have a bigger chanse to survive if we gave tecnoligi up. But if we gave tecnoligi up what would it do then?

In the end nothing cares. There is only one thing that is for sure and that is death.

"There is only one thing in life you get for free and that is your last breath"



(I realy like this quind of discussions, it doesnt care if I says what I think or just says something to keep the other part going)

 

[Shadowy Fear]

Although, without technology, sooner or later an asteroid would just happen to be in the neighborhood, get pulled in by Earth's gravity well an -

BAM.

Crack.

Splinter.

No more Earth?

No more Earth.

If we had some sort of repelling or destroying the asteroid, then we would survive.

Otherwise, the majority of Earth's lifeforms would be blown away. Poof.

|\|o |\/|ore.

Technology would help us in this respect, at least.

Survival of the fittest means those who SURVIVE out of a given group, regardless of time.

Evolution has been greatly thrown off even by environmentalists trying to help.

You see a bat with a broken wing (due to a DNA issue that made it's bones fragile), and of course try to help it, as it is just flying around in circles.

So, you take it back to your lab/house/Death Ray and fix it and release it back into the wild.

Now, it can pass along its deffective genes to other bats, which will lead to more problems, especially if the environmentalist moves away.