I have aproblem!

[tommerbob]

you should just try to give us an example, show us one of your "AWSUM" and "not-so-awesome" heroes and compare them in matters of awesomeness.

And give us examples of WHY this or that hero is awesome or not awesome.

Going back to examples that Mapguy used in a previous post, using DotA has an example, he said that meepo and invoker are awesome heroes, but Drow and Skeleton King were not awesome. So if I understand you correctly, "awesome" to you means the same thing as "complicated" or more difficult to play. That's fine. I would agree that the more complicated heroes like Invoker definitely add some "spice" (for the lack of a better word) to a map, but you need to remember that everyone has different play styles, and different heroes synergize well with other types of heroes. ESPECIALLY in an AoS type map, synergy between heroes, not just the awesomeness of each individual hero, should be your ultimate goal.

 

[mapguy]

And give us examples of WHY this or that hero is awesome or not awesome.

Going back to examples that Mapguy used in a previous post, using DotA has an example, he said that meepo and invoker are awesome heroes, but Drow and Skeleton King were not awesome. So if I understand you correctly, "awesome" to you means the same thing as "complicated" or more difficult to play. That's fine. I would agree that the more complicated heroes like Invoker definitely add some "spice" (for the lack of a better word) to a map, but you need to remember that everyone has different play styles, and different heroes synergize well with other types of heroes. ESPECIALLY in an AoS type map, synergy between heroes, not just the awesomeness of each individual hero, should be your ultimate goal.

I seek for complicated heroes and And I try to make them not 100% self sustainable because I want players to make combos.

you got my idea.

(I'm not trying to make a thousand of people love my maps, I'm just creating an AOS for those who wants something different and are tyred of the same game formula and the same previsible heroes and gameplays)

 

[Jinxx]

For me, awesome means playing a hero that makes me all warm and tingly inside when I do well with him/her (I'm not being sarcastic). Alot of people in this thread are confusing "awesome" with "balanced" and "polished", which are all different things. For a map to be fun and playable, it needs to be, well, fun, interesting, polished, bug-free (or as much so as humanly possible), and, well, it needs to have that special something that keeps you coming back to play it.

Now, in most maps, the heroes are that which attracts players and keeps them coming back for more. You want awesome? My advice is that it's better to have 10 fully polished, bug-free, fun heroes with leakless spells, than 30/40/50/N+1 average and subpar ones with vanilla spells.

Awesome Hero = spells with full synergy, an icon set that actually matches the hero's theme (they don't need to be imported, just make sure they visually complement the hero's abilities), an interesting story/background/biography, a soundset that actually fits the hero, and, above all, fun, triggered abilities (which don't need to be uber complex or migrane-inducing flashy).

My favorite hero in DotA is Mirana (Priestess of the Moon). Near perfect synergy, fun as hell to play, and nothing, nothing beats that warm tingly feeling you get when you snipe a fleeing enemy hero with <5% health at 2500 range with Elune's Arrow as he's zig-zagging through the woods and running back to his fountain! Mirana is awesome! Are your heroes like Mirana?

P.S. I'm deeply in love with PotM... ah... unrequited love...

 

[mapguy]

for me, awesome means playing a hero that makes me all warm and tingly inside when i do well with him/her (i'm not being sarcastic). Alot of people in this thread are confusing "awesome" with "balanced" and "polished", which are all different things. For a map to be fun and playable, it needs to be, well, fun, interesting, polished, bug-free (or as much so as humanly possible), and, well, it needs to have that special something that keeps you coming back to play it.

Now, in most maps, the heroes are that which attracts players and keeps them coming back for more. You want awesome? My advice is that it's better to have 10 fully polished, bug-free, fun heroes with leakless spells, than 30/40/50/n+1 average and subpar ones with vanilla spells.

Awesome hero = spells with full synergy, an icon set that actually matches the hero's theme (they don't need to be imported, just make sure they visually complement the hero's abilities), an interesting story/background/biography, a soundset that actually fits the hero, and, above all, fun, triggered abilities (which don't need to be uber complex or migrane-inducing flashy).

My favorite hero in dota is mirana (priestess of the moon). Near perfect synergy, fun as hell to play, and nothing, nothing beats that warm tingly feeling you get when you snipe a fleeing enemy hero with <5% health at 2500 range with elune's arrow as he's zig-zagging through the woods and running back to his fountain! Mirana is awesome! Are your heroes like mirana?

p.s. I'm deeply in love with potm... Ah... Unrequited love...

finally!
You understand mee!
I tought i was talking and cofusing people!
But u got it!
Omg!
U got it!
Love you!<3

 

[tommerbob]

I get that warm tingly feeling when I get a Ultra-kill from 3 hits with PA+Battlefury...at their fountain.

 

[Sevion]

Alot of people in this thread are confusing "awesome" with "balanced" and "polished", which are all different things.

This is totally incorrect. "Awesome" can be either of those things and more.

inspiring awe

Meaning, anything that makes someone think "That is cool."

Which means... it's completely OPINION.

a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.

It's different for EVERYONE. Many of us just agree that balance and polishness reflects how "awesome" a hero is.

What do you not understand from this?

I also want to quote something:

Alot of people in this thread are confusing "awesome" with "balanced" and "polished", which are all different things.

... later on...

My advice is that it's better to have 10 fully polished, bug-free, fun heroes with leakless spells, than 30/40/50/n+1 average and subpar ones with vanilla spells.

Wait a minute... Yeah...

Awesome hero =

Once again, opinion!

Near perfect synergy, fun as hell to play

We've told you that synergy within and between heroes is something you should account for.

Fun is something you should account for.

You asked us what we thought would be an "awesome" hero. We have told you. What more do you want!?

We've answered that everything depends on what you believe to be "cool", "fun", and "awesome".

It's your opinion. It's your map. It's your choice. You choose.

You chose to ask us what we thought. We told you the line above.

I'm not quite sure what you're asking for now.

 

[mapguy]

This is totally incorrect. "Awesome" can be either of those things and more.



Meaning, anything that makes someone think "That is cool."

Which means... it's completely OPINION.



It's different for EVERYONE. Many of us just agree that balance and polishness reflects how "awesome" a hero is.

What do you not understand from this?

I also want to quote something:



Wait a minute... Yeah...



Once again, opinion!



We've told you that synergy within and between heroes is something you should account for.

Fun is something you should account for.

You asked us what we thought would be an "awesome" hero. We have told you. What more do you want!?

We've answered that everything depends on what you believe to be "cool", "fun", and "awesome".

It's your opinion. It's your map. It's your choice. You choose.

You chose to ask us what we thought. We told you the line above.

I'm not quite sure what you're asking for now.

do you ramember the purpose of this thread?

it about releasing my beta version with 12 or 30 heroes.

 

[Sevion]

We moved on from that. Do you not remember?

 

[Jinxx]

This is totally incorrect. "Awesome" can be either of those things and more.

I beg to differ. A hero isn't fun to play (or "awesome", or however you wish to classify it) if it doesn't meet and exceed all of these criteria! This isn't a matter of opinion, it just is. Would you enjoy playing a hero with perfectly synergistical abilities that leak like hell? Or one that's completely bug-free, yet bland and without character?

Fun is something you should account for.

You asked us what we thought would be an "awesome" hero. We have told you. What more do you want!?

We've answered that everything depends on what you believe to be "cool", "fun", and "awesome".

It's your opinion. It's your map. It's your choice. You choose.

You chose to ask us what we thought. We told you the line above.

I'm not quite sure what you're asking for now.

Lol, take it easy with Mapguy, that's my post, not his!

Also Sevion, I think you're putting too much emphasis on individual subjectivity. Most people agree that a Ferrarri is awesome - some might not, but most do. That wouldn't stop someone from tacking together a crappy car and telling everyone how awesome it is (while they all stared at him dumbounded), but it still doesn't change the situation!

 

[Sevion]

>_>

You're contradicting yourself very very strongly...

This isn't a matter of opinion

Que? You think one thing, and I think another. How is that not a matter of opinion?

 

[Accname]

i absolutely agree with sevion, my opinion, as i pointed it out several times already in this thread, is that he should only ask himself whether he believes his heroes are "Awesome" or not.
if he is insecure he can ask for help how to improve a hero here but he cannot ask such a question because there is no answer we can tell him and he would like to hear.

 

[Jinxx]

...if he is insecure he can ask for help how to improve a hero here but he cannot ask such a question because there is no answer we can tell him and he would like to hear.

True...

 

[FootysMaXeD]

Gameplay is more important than how flashy a hero is. If the game isn't fun then people won't give a crap how "awesome" a hero is. And even if you think it's awesome, many other people may not.

Go ahead and make "awesome" heroes. Just don't expect that alone to make your map a sturdy boat.

I don't think anyone is talking about how flashy a hero is. What mapguy means about "awesome" is what really does make a map unique and even a "sturdy boat". Believe it or not, but heroes make up a huge part of the game (in terms of interactivity/gameplay/etc).

My opinion is that there should only be High Quality ("awesome") heroes in a good map, and that these heroes have abilities that complement their character role and serve a unique purpose. Hero quality/uniqueness/role/synergy should always comes BEFORE balance, although both are highly important. Let your ideas run free; don't trouble yourself with numbers until you are ready.


You guys are making this seem like a "coolness" competition. It's just quality over quantity.

 

[Aniconic]

I beg to differ. A hero isn't fun to play (or "awesome", or however you wish to classify it) if it doesn't meet and exceed all of these criteria! This isn't a matter of opinion, it just is. Would you enjoy playing a hero with perfectly synergistical abilities that leak like hell? Or one that's completely bug-free, yet bland and without character?

I'm going just chime in here and say that I agree that it varies from person to person based on personal perspective.

For example, a fellow developer might be more appreciative of the technical aspect of the final product of hero/ability function as it pertains to overall game play balance, where is someone who is more artistic might find the focal point of their opinion in overall visual presentation. Everyone shares an unmeasurable taste for both.

Because of that, everyone might find one hero or another more appealing as it pertains to their personal definition of the word "Awesome".

That's called an opinion.

And that's why people think that the original poster's question about his heroes were vague. His viewpoint is his own, and not everyone is going to share his optimism for what he calls his "Awesome heroes".

 

[Sevion]

I don't think anyone is talking about how flashy a hero is. What mapguy means about "awesome" is what really does make a map unique and even a "sturdy boat". Believe it or not, but heroes make up a huge part of the game (in terms of interactivity/gameplay/etc).

My opinion is that there should only be High Quality ("awesome") heroes in a good map, and that these heroes have abilities that complement their character role and serve a unique purpose. Hero quality/uniqueness/role/synergy should always comes BEFORE balance, although both are highly important. Let your ideas run free; don't trouble yourself with numbers until you are ready.


You guys are making this seem like a "coolness" competition. It's just quality over quantity.

Have you read the thread?

 

[tommerbob]

Have you read the thread?

^^ This.

 

[mapguy]

^^ This.

this is it

 

[FootysMaXeD]

Have you read the thread?

Yes

 

[Bogrim]

Once again, everything about "awesome" is completely opinionated. This is a thread going nowhere.

You guys are making this seem like a "coolness" competition. It's just quality over quantity.

Both apply, FootyMaXeD.

If it wasn't for competition, Sevion's statement would be true. I dislike DOTA, but it's still an awesome map. My opinion differs, yet I have to acknowledge that the map is well designed. Why?

Let me give you an example. You go see a movie and you think it's good. But then you go see a better movie, and you realize the previous movie wasn't as good, even if you liked the previous movie's concept better.

The same thing applies to maps. A hero's design is no longer estimated by opinion alone, but on how well it stands out compared to its competition. If your hero's not as fun to play as another map's hero, what's going to keep people playing your map?

You can design everything based on your own opinion with no outside influences, but that'd just end up being a waste of work if no one would play it because of the competition.

I know you both mean to say the same thing, but those statements were just about as wrong as wrong can get.

 

[13lade619]

"Awesome" is subjective.

"Balanced" is objective.

/thread

Example from your own post mapguy...
Drow Ranger is awesome? I think some people consider her a cheap/easy dps because of her Frost Arrows.