Licensing our code.

JerseyFoo

1/g = g-1
Reaction score
40
I believe all of you who have experienced the misfortune of scripting in galaxy should license your code and make things as difficult for Blizzard have they mal-intent.

Moral Foundation
The natural manner of thinking is that Blizzard made the game therefore has absolute power of it, but that's not true. Blizzard is assuming control over a virtual community, and there is no reason to consider a virtual community any less than a 'real' community. What right does Blizzard have to violate human rights simply because it's online and not taken seriously? They only built the roads and infrastructure.

The reason many of you map is likely because you have an attachment to this community, and that is why you put up with Blizzard's BS. They are exploiting you for your human tendencies.

The Point
Blizzard claims copyright over your maps but they cannot assume ownership of your code; IF you're smart about it. Any suggestions on how to go about doing that?
 

Dave312

Censored for your safe viewing
Reaction score
269
I don't think you can copyright your code. You are scripting in a language that blizzard created for SC2. Also you will have to use SC2 to implement/execute your code. Because you are using components that are apart of SC2, anything you create (including your code) would be covered under their "user created content" clause.
 

JerseyFoo

1/g = g-1
Reaction score
40
Also you will have to use SC2 to implement/execute your code.
Not necessarily. Say another person or piece of software were to implement your code. Although they have permission to use your code, Blizzard cannot take ownership from a non-owner.

You are scripting in a language that blizzard created for SC2
Created? It's just a handicapped version of C. They don't own the language.
 

Lyerae

I keep popping up on this site from time to time.
Reaction score
105
Unless they've included something in the Terms, you can very easily publish the map under a license.
 

Miz

Administrator
Reaction score
428
You are unlocking many legal trapdoors and I am not in anyway a lawyer with any kind of Law experience, but I did read through several "Terms & Agreements" of Blizzard Entertainment retaining Starcraft 2 after being curious about this thread.

Blizzard claims copyright over your maps but they cannot assume ownership of your code; IF you're smart about it. Any suggestions on how to go about doing that?

It is an interesting argument but I am not sure if it stays entirely afloat when you look at the STARCRAFT® II: WINGS OF LIBERTY™ - END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT. This is something you agree to when (most likely - not 100% sure but based on Wc3) using the Map Editor, Installing Starcraft 2 and Registering for Battle.net/Logging into Battle.net.

A. Map Content.
You understand that the content required to create or modify STARCRAFT® II Modified Maps (as defined below) is included in the STARCRAFT® II game client, and that all such content is owned by Blizzard and governed by this Agreement. YOU ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT ALL MAPS, LEVELS AND OTHER CONTENT CREATED OR MODIFIED USING THE MAP EDITOR (COLLECTIVELY, “MODIFIED MAPS”) ARE AND SHALL REMAIN THE SOLE AND EXCLUSIVE PROPERTY OF BLIZZARD. WITHOUT LIMITING THE FOREGOING, YOU HEREBY ASSIGN TO BLIZZARD ALL OF YOUR RIGHTS, TITLE AND INTEREST IN AND TO ALL MODIFIED MAPS, AND AGREE THAT YOU WILL EXECUTE FUTURE ASSIGNMENTS PROMPTLY UPON RECEIVING SUCH A REQUEST FROM BLIZZARD.

Now I am not saying I am interpreting this 100% accurately (so this can still be argued) but I am pretty sure that your code, speaking it is written in the Galaxy language for originally a Sc2 Map or in the SC2/Galaxy Editor and that the Galaxy Language itself is under the control of Blizzard Entertainment, it technically falls under the "OTHER CONTENT CREATED OR MODIFIED USING THE MAP EDITOR" clause of that Agreement. Now, it is up to interpretation, (un)fortunately I am pretty sure the Omnipotent Activision-Blizzard has a well qualified legal team.

However, this policy of complete and total ownership is nothing new for Blizzard or really any Game company. In Warcraft 3 Custom maps, you didn't own anything ether. It might be a little bit stricter then the past, but it is still relatively the same agreement.

Nevertheless if you make a code, a map or anything as a contribution to this site or any Starcraft 2 Community; we will still respect you as the creator in the community, regardless of your copyright ownership. Same as always. :thup:

Edit 1 - As I said before, I am not a legal analysis so I am sure someone can probably correct me on some points but as an alternative to additional licensing. You could possibly leave a message in your code, hoping that people in their good nature of the Community would leave your name in the comments/credits for the help they have received through using your contribution. Something such as a "Good Nature Agreement" could easily be promoted for users of this site.
 

Ninja_sheep

Heavy is credit to team!
Reaction score
64
Blizzard just tries to keep control over the game. And I can't blame them for it.

And it's not like blizzard is absuing it in any way. It's merely a precaution.
 

s3rius

Linux is only free if your time is worthless.
Reaction score
130
What they do is completely legit, it's there to protect them from the ill-intend of the users and I'd do the same if I were in their shoes.

They allow you to use their tools, thus they can do whatever they want to. You say they only built the roads and infrastructure. You're right, but even in reality the owner can forbid you to use their private road. Just because most roads are state property doesn't mean they all belong to you.

If you don't want this then grab Eclipse or a free version of Microsoft's Visual Studio and start making your own games. You'll quickly see how much good Blizzard's editor is :)
You rely deeply on Blizzard's tools. They make the rules and by using their software you agree with this.

Created? It's just a handicapped version of C. They don't own the language.

Galaxy is a language probably based on JASS2. Just because it looks like C doesn't mean it's made out of it. Blizzard created Galaxy (or it's predecessor) on their own. (Not to speak of the GUI which you're probably using too.)
The language only serves as a medium between the user and the underlying C++ (the comments in the natives.galaxy speak of C++). Still it's their creation.

Blizzard doesn't "exploit our human tendencies". Blizzard gave us the editor to exploit our imagination and you're nagging because they don't give us even more.
The alternative to our current state is simply not having the editor at all.
 

JerseyFoo

1/g = g-1
Reaction score
40
but even in reality the owner can forbid you to use their private road. Just because most roads are state property doesn't mean they all belong to you.
We paid to use the road, they cannot abuse your rights.

Ignoring the issue at hand and using out-of-context examples/comparisons as base. I also see a hint of 'insinuating you can't code'. Bravo, fanboy.

If it's not clear, the point here is self-defense. Retaining the right to pull your work from Blizzard's exploitation if you deem necessary.
 

Vestras

Retired
Reaction score
248
We paid to use the road, they cannot abuse your rights.

Ignoring the issue at hand and using out-of-context examples/comparisons as base. I also see a hint of 'insinuating you can't code'. Bravo, fanboy.

If it's not clear, the point here is self-defense. Retaining the right to pull your work from Blizzard's exploitation if you deem necessary.

You paid for the game. Blizzard are so nice that they allow you to use their awesome game engine for free.
Since you're basing everything you make on their property, they have every right to say they own it. And it's not like they'd be particularly interested in anything you'd make -- mostly, it's just for safety and so they can pull down mods that violate their EULA.
 

tommerbob

Minecraft. :D
Reaction score
110
You paid for the game. Blizzard are so nice that they allow you to use their awesome game engine for free.
Since you're basing everything you make on their property, they have every right to say they own it. And it's not like they'd be particularly interested in anything you'd make -- mostly, it's just for safety and so they can pull down mods that violate their EULA.

This. Plain and simple.
 

Doomhammer

Bob Kotick - Gamers' corporate spoilsport No. 1
Reaction score
67
You paid for the game. Blizzard are so nice that they allow you to use their awesome game engine for free.
Since you're basing everything you make on their property, they have every right to say they own it. And it's not like they'd be particularly interested in anything you'd make -- mostly, it's just for safety and so they can pull down mods that violate their EULA.

That's a very interesting debate. Let me just ask: Who says so? Blizzard could easily pick the top 10 most popular user maps and sell their respective modified versions as bonus content. It's their IP as soon as Galaxy goes online. Blizzard could as easily claim any brilliant and popular game mod as their IP and publish a game based on it. I don't see too much of a (passive) protection mechanism, yet rather the option of absorbing even more IP (just like the Warcraft world is an adaption of Tolkien's work, the Starcraft universe adapted from early Sci-Fi work such as Robert A. Heinlein's writings).
 

tommerbob

Minecraft. :D
Reaction score
110
That's a very interesting debate. Let me just ask: Who says so? Blizzard could easily pick the top 10 most popular user maps and sell their respective modified versions as bonus content. It's their IP as soon as Galaxy goes online. Blizzard could as easily claim any brilliant and popular game mod as their IP and publish a game based on it. I don't see too much of a (passive) protection mechanism, yet rather the option of absorbing even more IP (just like the Warcraft world is an adaption of Tolkien's work, the Starcraft universe adapted from early Sci-Fi work such as Robert A. Heinlein's writings).

What's your point?
 

Doomhammer

Bob Kotick - Gamers' corporate spoilsport No. 1
Reaction score
67
What's your point?

My point is that it would completely suffice if Blizz stated "whatever you make with this editor of ours, you can't make any money out of it but through us"; instead they're stating "whatever you make with this editor of ours already belongs to us."
 

JerseyFoo

1/g = g-1
Reaction score
40
You paid for the game. Blizzard are so nice that they allow you to use their awesome game engine for free.
Name a popular game that doesn't have mods? Blizzard has only created a channel for profit by building a bridge of sticks for 3rd party developers, it's hardly being nice. Besides that, their game engine is outdated and only strong point is a wide range of hardware support. Had they not given us the editor, a much better editor would've likely come along, and Blizzard would've sued the hell out of them.

I'd rather not go into a debate about how Blizzard has become another super-being comprised of corporate carelessness. You could try comparing them to a good company. Could start here. But please don't try to fool anyone into believing Blizzard is going out of their way for us. They are not your friend, and neither are they their game developer division -- the true end you owe any respect to.

The matter at hand here is how to license our code.
 

tommerbob

Minecraft. :D
Reaction score
110
Name a popular game that doesn't have mods? Blizzard has only created a channel for profit by building a bridge of sticks for 3rd party developers, it's hardly being nice. Besides that, their game engine is outdated and only strong point is a wide range of hardware support. Had they not given us the editor, a much better editor would've likely come along, and Blizzard would've sued the hell out of them.

I'd rather not go into a debate about how Blizzard has become another super-being comprised of corporate carelessness. You could try comparing them to a good company. Could start here. But please don't try to fool anyone into believing Blizzard is going out of their way for us. They are not your friend, and neither are they their game developer division -- the true end you owe any respect to.

The matter at hand here is how to license our code.

If you're serious enough about game design that you actually want to license your code, go out and buy some decent software or just do it on your own instead of signing another company's EULA and using their tool. What you're talking about is a legal issue, better suited for the general Tech Support section, or even better, a law office.

@ Doomhammer. I agree with you, but that's mostly just semantics if you ask me. The whole point of that part of the EULA is so that 3rd party people (like us) will not make profit off a tool if and when that profit legitimately belongs to Blizzard.
 

s3rius

Linux is only free if your time is worthless.
Reaction score
130
I also see a hint of 'insinuating you can't code'. Bravo, fanboy.

I never meant to insinuate anything. If you mean the mention of GUI - well, you're using it, aren't you? (I don't know, but I assume so since most people use it.)
I've also been bitching about Blizzard since Sc2 beta came out. I'm sure as hell no fanboy.

Blizzard has only created a channel for profit by building a bridge of sticks for 3rd party developers, it's hardly being nice. Besides that, their game engine is outdated and only strong point is a wide range of hardware support. Had they not given us the editor, a much better editor would've likely come along, and Blizzard would've sued the hell out of them.

How did Blizzard abuse their power (which they had in Wc3 already, by the way) to gain profit?
The only thing I can think of is forcing the old owner of Left 2 Die to change his name in order for their own map to be published.
Blizzard isn't stupid. They know that, if they sold maps without the owners permision, they wouldn't only create much bad publicity. They'd lose the support of this mapper who stops to update this map and no one would play it anymore.
In the end they'd stagnate the custom maps and only hurt themselves.

Also you make creating Map Editors sound very easy. You might be surprised, but making a new map editor from scratch for a game which source code you don't even have is like FUCKING HARD and UNBELIEVABLY TIME-CONSUMING even for pros.
If Blizzard hadn't given us this map editor the mapping community would be dead. That's how it is.


The matter at hand here is how to license our code.

You can't. I'm not a lawyer, but Blizzard has them. And I'm fairly certain they made sure that no one can "steal" parts of custom sc2 maps.
In the end you agreed to all of their terms when you installed the game.

garrysmod.com
Interestingly you have to pay seperately for using garrysmod. The Sc2 editor is a free tool :)
Valve is profit orientated, just like Blizzard.
 

Slapshot136

Divide et impera
Reaction score
471
tl;dr after the first few points, but the user EULA is usually full of crap i.e. it violates local/federal laws in lots of places, thus even though it says stuff, when they actually try to enforce it they will run into problems - this is common for all EULA's such that if they are used in somewhere where there are different laws, then they have some meaning -this is like a "catch all" type thing
 

tooltiperror

Super Moderator
Reaction score
231
I guess the only way to sum it up, is if you don't want your code to be owned by Blizzard, don't write in Galaxy.

You are surrendering your intellectual thought by using the editor.
 

Samael88

Evil always finds a way
Reaction score
181
We paid to use the road, they cannot abuse your rights.

We usually never pays for roads since it is the government that does so.
What rights? You did not have any to begin with.
As soon as you start typing in Galaxy what ever it is it becomes the property of blizzard Entertainment.
When you buy starcraft 2 you pay to be able to use the editor and it's features such as Galaxy, it does not mean that you have ownership to anything you make in the game or the editor.
The Bolded text in Miz's quote clearly says that Galaxy belongs to Blizzard and I am just assuming that you must agree to that in order to use the editor in the same way as with warcraft 3, if I made a correct assumption you don't have any case what so ever.
There is no way to License you code since it is not your code to begin with.

Another thing came to mind here. You are comparing Valve to Blizzard and are serious about it?
What Valve did was develop the Source Engine and someone made a game using it. It is Valve that owns Garrys mod, they just let the guy that developed it to continue and supports him but they are the once that profit the most from it in the same exact way as blizzard profits from making a powerful editor and letting us use it.
The two companies actually did the same exact thing and you want to state that Valve is better than Blizzard?

This is a pointless discussion and has been from the start.
 

Gwypaas

hook DoNothing MakeGUIUsersCrash
Reaction score
50
tl;dr after the first few points, but the user EULA is usually full of crap i.e. it violates local/federal laws in lots of places, thus even though it says stuff, when they actually try to enforce it they will run into problems - this is common for all EULA's such that if they are used in somewhere where there are different laws, then they have some meaning -this is like a "catch all" type thing
This is why everyone who has commentated on this thread has missed the point by a great margin.
 
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