Map Motivation?

[SD_Ryoko]

I'm having a serious map makers block. I guess I'm kind of demotivated to even work on this new map.

I thought about it for a while, and what I am making is a team game. And I think, no one wants to play team games anymore. People want to fight eachother, screw other players over, hit them with nasty spells, and talk crap over chat.

I'm making an aliens theme. Who wouldn't want to play the ALIENS as well as the marines. Hmm.

So lets talk about that. I know, right now, there is no TEAM vs TEAM map out that can compete with Dota Allstars. On Azeroth, thats all people want to play. Thats it. Theres like 4 games being hosted at the same time. They love it. I don't want to spend all this time on a map, if no ones going to play.

And I didn't want to make a Dota / Aos map anyway. Really, the only people who arn't playing dota, are the rooks. Seriously. You don't see many of the adults in footie wars or a TD.

Heck, I was terraining... and I had three defensive areas... and I made a ramped river. Man, my map even looks like a dota. Three lanes, and a river.

SIGH.

I can't balance this map to work great in single player, and great in multiplayer. You can't defend a whole base by yourself, unless the enemies are few and far between.

All my maps have been MULTIPLAYER. Thats what I do. I don't even know the campaign stories, and I don't want to. Playing by yourself is a waste. Yet, on all the maps I've ever uploaded, ALL the critisizm is from people playing SINGLE PLAYER and they complain, the game doesn't work perfectly, theres no one to 'race' in the mini games. For me its like, OF COURSE NOT, DAMMIT - This isn't a single player map. Says 4-8. And repeats that in the description. AHHHhhHHhHHhh.

So in summery, If i can't develope something thats just great, that people want to play, I'm not gonna work on it.

Can anyone relate? I think I have some kind of mental condition, called

Dota Inferiority.

 

[kilrogg]

Must agree.. think sometiems that its no use to make a multiplayer map, if all people already are fixed on dota, eternal, and so on. Me myself got tired of thouse games after 5-10 games played. Now i never wana see them again

I for one think most games on b.net is booring.. and in some way i wana try do something fun to play.
I started my map making by, creating some LOTR based maps, battle of the 5 armies, peleanor field.. but was kind waste of time, since all already played rignwars, or already made maps of that kind.

So then i made Battle of Troy, wich is pretty popular i'v noticed.
Still now i wana make some fast game, either easy or hard depending on players, instant action on a small map - with other words Battlefield 1942
Think this wil be one of the last maps i make, but hope this wil not just be for nothing.

//Kilrogg

 

[Darg]

So in summery, If i can't develope something thats just great, that people want to play, I'm not gonna work on it.

Can anyone relate? I think I have some kind of mental condition, called

Dota Inferiority.

My god man, I think you've developed Mind syndrome! (remember him?)

What's true is:

- all genres and styles of play have been done to death, especially AoS, which is what DotA is based off (and for the love of god people, DotA is NOT a genre!)
- people do like beating the crap out of each other in team v team games, and 1 v 1 too
- people also like competing against each other in games like TDs, where players work individually and try to outlast their opponents
- there are still some scenarios where "everyone on the one team" is a popular concept - castle defense is still a frequently played map. (8) hero siege is also quite popular.

With that in mind, my strategies are:

- don't think about the end so much, focus more on the process. I like making maps more than playing on bnet, so that's what I do. I like it so much more to the point that I don't really even CARE if I don't release my maps on battle.net - as long as I've done something I liked doing that's all that matters to me.
- don't get swept up in the popularity craze. This means that you shouldn't start making maps with the intention of becoming famous and popular in the community, do it because you want to do it.
- think think think! I really don't like throwing myself into a map without any real idea where I'm going. For me, it's a total waste of time doing something and then getting another idea and having to redo my map because of it. If you find yourself out of ideas, just take a break and go do something else fun. If you find yourself running out of motivation for ideas, do the exact same thing. When (or if) the inspiration comes back to you, only then go back to mapmaking.

So in summary:

Know exactly what you want to do, enjoy the process, forget about the end until you get there, and if you like popularity and stardom, go into acting or music.


These are just my opinions, nobody should feel obliged to follow them just because I am a moderator

 

[sATARa]

Man, you`re just having a small mappers crises. Heck, Ive been expiriencing it for the last 4 weeks.
And whos says only newbs play TDs and footies... thats entirely not true.

I know ppl just love a good DOTA game, but what the hell make it "all on one team"...
Every thing else Darg already mentioned, so theres no point in repeating...

I do desagree with him on one point though...
if you like popularity and stardom, kick the crap out of some ultimate fight guy

 

[randomblink]

My Opinion

I have worked and am working with groups of gamers/game designers... and I have to say it sounds like you need inspiration.

I agree with Darg in that you shouldn't build a map to get a name.

So what should you do?

Well... I am a believer in team-work.
What if you put together a team...

1. Trigger Designers: Proper use of Triggers can change the way the game is played...
2. Programmers: Even if you just had someone who setup variables, how they were used, named them, and managed them...
3. Custom Content: New Models Testing, Skinners, Spell and Item designers... These people can change the game from Warcraft to... <insert game name here>
4. Quest Creators: Simple little quests bring flavor to a game, even multi-player
5. Semi-Custom Content: Tweak the in-game units. You could change the game for sure
6. Layout Designer: A properly setup map is ALOT of work. Putting trees here, a little prop here and there, Setting up the Neutral units to add something to the game can set a scene

These are just ideas as well... I am sure there are a hundred better set ups. But this takes the creative pressure off of a single player. It spreads the actual work involved to several people. It allows for creative ideas that will change the game...

For instance.
I have had an idea for dropping a Bandit Team into a map.
BUT I don't really wanna spend the time designing the triggers for running the Bandit AI.
I had thought it would be cool to create a re-skinned Peasant into Bandit Looking gear.
Maybe Bandits could only build Tents, and they could carry items like a Hero? Once the Bandit Comp had 10 Bandits, it would gain the ability to build a Bandit Camp... which would be the Mercenary Camp tweaked. A Bandit Camp could build a Bandit Lord. A Bandit Lord could ressurect 10% of dead units OF ANY PLAYER... where he is winning or victorious... Sorta a recruiting process of "If you don't join me Mr. Wounded Footman, You will die!" So his army grows with every victory.
Bandits would have NO upkeep, their Tents would PROVIDE Support, maybe they are built OFF OF the Orc Burrow... So that Bandits could jump into their tents and fight from them...
And WHAT IF a special Item "Bandit Tent" was created.
This would allow Bandits to carry their tents around...
Not a real IMPORTANT thing, but how cool would it be?

See, I have some ideas, but the thought of:

1. Learning the Trigger Setup well enough to design even a simple AI is a daunting process at best... But I bet you someone here or on b.net would find it a fascinating project.
2. Learning the Custom Unit Building well enough to setup a Techtree for the Bandits is complicated? I get lost with some of those options. I mean I could setup Bandits... Give them the ability to build tents and put them up AND take them down?
3. What about building the actual Tents and Bandit Camp Units?

Just too much for me to worry about... BUT if I could say "Hey, I need the Trigger Team to start work on a simple AI for Bandits. Get with the Custom Content guys on what abilities they are going to have. Custom Content guys? Could you re-skin some peasants in Militia garb so they look bandity? And give them the ability to carry items and build tents. Then I could worry about the map, and let the TEAM take care of their stuff...

Custom Splash Screens for the team would provide recognition and such...

Of course these are all just ideas... I could be wrong... and I am kinda rambling at this point, I'm actually late for lunch, so I think I will just leave it here... if I was unclear, I will clarify later...

 

[sATARa]

So Ryoko, did this topic help at all ?
Hows the map going?

 

[SD_Ryoko]

Well I been thinking about the map a little bit.

However, I am very very sick at the moment, so I have not been active in much that I do, including WC3 and the forum

I'll be alright though.