Minigame Midnight Assassins

[waaaks!]

it sounds familiar to FuFu ninja allstars made by a pinoy...anyways, im not so active on thehelper already because i always spend my time brainstorming on a new project, thats why i cant help u guys (guys = people who helped me on my projects), im very sorry, if i just have the time, ill help u guys

 

[darkRae]

After getting complains from multiple forums, I decided to change the Evasion into something else (but that 'something else' isn't known yet....)
The Evasion will stay there until I can find something good to replace it.
(must involve surviving)

That one second Evasion you are proposing is too... bad.
Casting it from afar before charging... the effect may be gone before you can close to the enemy.
Casting it from close distance... your opponent can just kill you then.
Time the distance so you can kill the enemy... you can do that with Wind Walk.

Long ranged weapons that can kill mustn't be here.

To be honest, I don't understand why the low-%-Evasion can cause so much imbalance.
Sure, it might screw your tactics, but it will also screw your enemies'.
And without a passive surviving skill, you are a dead meat when facing many opponents at once.
The chance is even too low for it to procure very often, I don't even find it reliable, it is way too rare and most of the time it is useless (from experience)

Terrain advantages like hills are already there, there ARE cliffs you know.
Why should a specific terrain give more advantages?
It will encourage people to camp and turtle themselves in.
10 seconds only? Then it isn't even useful.

Why spend time to take control of a point?
You're supposed to find your enemies in your limited time, and this is not a area-controlling type of game.

This game is about searching your opponents and kill them, not finding a comfortable place to hide and preventing yourself from dying and waiting for an enemy to pass and ambush him.
(some people might even do that, and while other people are gaining levels and points, he fails and most of the time misses on his attacks due to improper strategy and then scream imba)

Is there a passive evasion skill?

Is it going to be FFA?

damage increase,mana increase and maby some invisable traps or some sentry wards.

Why do I get this feeling that (some of) you guys haven't even tried the map yet?
(with humans of course)

 

[Sil3nt]

Item Ideas
____
Flash Powder: Throws a bag/rock/other powder at a point. Upon impact it releases a flash of white light and blinds all ninjas within # radius (or units facing the point).

Blinding - White fadefilter? 100% miss?
______________________________________
About locations and shops.

Being in certain locations(make it random every minute or so) will slowly generate you gold. Using mana instead of gold will save time making triggers, as well as giving it a limit to how much "money" you can make.

Purchasing items, or abilities would be better, requires mana.


PS I havn't actually tried the map; I just like generating ideas =D

 

[Ninja_sheep]

The chance is even too low for it to procure very often, I don't even find it reliable, it is way too rare and most of the time it is useless (from experience)

useles most of the time? sounds bad

And without a passive surviving skill, you are a dead meat when facing many opponents at once.

if the chance is so low it won't help you there too

It will encourage people to camp and turtle themselves in.

cliffs do that enough
just wait at a ramp and the enemy can't react till you kill him.
Ninja vs Samurai has perfect for solution that. But with this it'd get a real ripoff. (short durotation vision like an air unit)

 

[darkRae]

if the chance is so low it won't help you there too

Better than nothing, at least.
And casting in front of many enemies just increases the risk.
EDIT: Plus, more enemies = more attempts of attacking = more chance of procuring
While on 1v1, you (get) attack(ed) less, so it is less reliable.

Though, it is easier if we just don't worry about Evasion that much.
Everyone has it, so it doesn't imbalance.
If you want to know imbalance something is, check the score for that Hero at the end of the game.
Unless it is ridiculously higher than others, it is just fine.
(of course you need to have players with similar Warcraft abilities)

From my experience, they're fine.

cliffs do that enough
just wait at a ramp and the enemy can't react till you kill him.

That's what happens if you walk straight away.
You should either:
-- Wind Walk when going up a ramp
-- Place a Ward somewhere so that you can see the area above
-- (if you're a Hunter) Use Blink to get up there

If you can't do the three things above, you shouldn't carelessly go up a ramp anyway....

 

[Ninja_sheep]

Better than nothing, at least.
And casting in front of many enemies just increases the risk.
EDIT: Plus, more enemies = more attempts of attacking = more chance of procuring
While on 1v1, you (get) attack(ed) less, so it is less reliable.

oh well, whatever
Anyway it's a discussion about you like games that need luck to win or if you don't like them. For me it's just absurd if you fight and wether you win or lose depends on a random number.

That's what happens if you walk straight away.
You should either:
-- Wind Walk when going up a ramp
-- Place a Ward somewhere so that you can see the area above
-- (if you're a Hunter) Use Blink to get up there

If you can't do the three things above, you shouldn't carelessly go up a ramp anyway....

then you're still screwed if an enemy just comes around a corner or if he waits up there. Cause whatever you do you get one skill on cooldown.

 

[darkRae]

then you're still screwed if an enemy just comes around a corner or if he waits up there. Cause whatever you do you get one skill on cooldown.

Well, of course everything is up to the players.
There are many strategies to be played here.
Imagine you are the enemy: would you prefer waiting there for an enemy, or wander around the map looking for enemies?

For me it's just absurd if you fight and wether you win or lose depends on a random number.

It is called 'Chance', and that's what (sometimes) making a game fun.
If everything is always fixed, it is somewhat boring (at least IMO)

Like comparing a 15% chance to do 3.0x Critical Strike to 30% damage bonus.
Which one is more fun?

Well, thanks for the discussion.
I actually enjoy discussions like this thanks Ninja_sheep

 

[brodygs9630]

I think it as a great game and im gonna keep hosting it on b.net

i asked ppl that palyed what they thought,and most of them said more heros.

i suggest having an -ar/-repick system,and mabye a choice for a team match.
Good luck with your map:thup:

 

[muchalive]

Items!!

hmmm you may be right about evasions and terrain effects but the game would be lame without items that can manipulate your opponents. But im not really shure which items would be good to place in. This is a very difficult game to make as so many have failed befor. :banghead: im out of ideas for the first time


Final attempt: you said earlyer that you needed a servival type ability to follow up with the servival talent tree. how about making a skill that decreases the chance of enemies to spot you wile in windwalk or increase the speed in windwalk. This sounds lame but its wurth a try....

 

[thewrongvine]

Oh, soz. I didn't see that there was a DL available. I'll check it out.

 

[darkRae]

^Track (Hunter's spell) cannot spot an invisible (Wind Walking) enemies.
Hmm... good idea, maybe I should do the same with Locate.

Hey guys, I've got an idea.
How about Hardened Skin instead of Evasion?
So they have a chance to lower the damage (to 3) instead of nullifying it at all?
This is to make that no one cannot Evade two attacks without dying....

 

[muchalive]

thats a good idea. It is more realiable than evasion and it does not completely obsorb all the damage. Most importantly it doesn't give the person who evaded an attack the advantage of one hitting you after you missed. :thup:

 

[demotry241]

yeah good idea...

bwuhahahaha so that when i play that map again with my friends I'm gonna say(because lan), *you think you can but you cannot you are 40,000 years too young to kill me!*

well if there is life regeneration i would be happier.. like .(point)something really really low.

 

[darkRae]

BUMP.

(finally) Added the banner and some screenshots.

 

[thewrongvine]

Yay! Finally!

I will try it out when I can.

 

[darkRae]

Actually I didn't add anything but the banner to the first page.
The map remains the same (still v1.00)

The map has been here since the first post (26th June 2008)

 

[thewrongvine]

I meant Yay for me. I had WCIII avaiable soon yesterday, lol.

Anyways, I only played it with single player and tried all the classes. Of course, that's not as productive as mutliplayer so... I don't have much to say. The skills and things are pretty cool, but there are some tweaking issues, I think.

The Ninja-Hunter has increased attack-speed, and since everyone dies in one hit, in a battle that normally people would have (both peope just suddenly see each other with no past knowledge), the Ninja-Hunter would attack first, and most likely kill the enemy. Yes, there is a chance for the target to evade the attack, but don't you also have that chance? I suppose you can argue about this since there are skills to counter it such as wards to see them before, and traps, but most of the time, it's basically just attacking.

Those traps kill enemies in 1 hit? And they last for 180 seconds, and since the map is small, it would be easy for someone to talk on a path placed on like a narrow path. Maybe the trap doesn't kill them, but it gives sight to the caster and just stuns them for like 3-6 seconds.

Ninja-Mages don't really have a good attack until higher levels, so they can be taken advantage on. Even though they have a range attack, enemies can just windwalk next to them. Even worse, a range attack is slower and requires more time for the damage to occur. You'd have to time it perfectly with range attacks to kill enemies, but I guess this isn't that much of an imbalance - just a note to you.

Pretty cool game overall, hoping to be able to play it multiplayer!

 

[darkRae]

The Ninja-Hunter has increased attack-speed

True, but do you notice that the Ninja-Warden slows anyone who attacks her by 40%?
Means you attack at 3/5 of normal speed.
You can counter this by Wind Walking next to the Hunter and kill him.

Those traps kill enemies in 1 hit?

Unfortunately, those traps make sound and are easily notice-able since the animation is moving.
Unless they are in Fog, you can easily dodge them, I believe.
And if the Warden decides to spam Traps on a path, it's his choice.
By putting a lot of Traps in one place, he lost the choice to place Traps in many places (which is better imo) and putting a lot of them in one place makes them even easier to notice.

Even worse, a range attack is slower and requires more time for the damage to occur.

Actually, the Damage Point for the Mage and Warden are the same (Hunter's is faster)

Thanks a lot for your comment

 

[thewrongvine]

Well, everything dies in one hit, so the next slowed attack won't matter. If they dodge, you also have the chance to dodge their attack, so it's like you have a ((evasion)+(attackspeed))% chance to dodge. But it is a ninja game, so I guess the others will just have to be faster.

Oh, sounds, eh? You should tell with like a text display that. I don't always have my volume up. ^_^ And what is the maximum for traps? Is it from a set maximum or from Duration/Cooldown maximum?

Really? It's the same? Is it triggered? Because doesn't the damage need to wait for the projectile to hit? Or not... lol

Can you host?

 

[darkRae]

The maximum number of Traps is determined from Duration/Cooldown.

Yes, it's the same.
No, it isn' triggered. The Weapon Type for the Mage is Normal, which means his attack is still considered Melee even though he has 128 attack range (others have 100 range)
It means that he has more range, but has the same overall time to hit.
And since it's still melee, attacking on hills is not a disadvantage for him.

Actually, the slow does matter.
The slow occurs when you are attacked, means you are slowed the moment you raise your weapon, resulting in slower damage point.
Yes, it is a bit unfair for the Mage, but he has more range.

What's the point of traps if you are noticed that they are around you?