Miniaturized

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what666said

Guest
This is my current WIP project, my goal when I began it was to make a map with either no downtime or very little. What I mean by downtime is the time before you can really have fun, take DOTA for example oftentimes you spend the first 15-20 minutes "building" your hero and if you aren't good your screwed and won't have fun. In this map I'm doing my best to remove this and throw people straight into the action.

The map is a 3 way AoS but it's been incredibly simplified, for one thing the game does not go on and on like other AoS often have, but instead I expect a round to last anywhere from 1-10 minutes at most. During rounds you and your three teamates will have time to capture as many "points" as possible. These come in several forms:

Kills - Each kill for your team gives you one point. Hero kills give 5 points.
Captures - The map has 6 towers on it, if a tower is destroyed the destroying team will gain a new tower at the position. Every 30 seconds towers change "form" between Fire (Splash), Ice (Slow), and Death (Poison). A capture awards 25 points.

The next big step towards faster games are the heroes:

Each hero only has 10 levels, in this I'm assuming people will rarely get all the way to the 10th level. Each hero will get 4 spells and 1 ultimate, accessible at level 5 and 9.

Items will also be significantly different.

You can purchase items using your teams points (at the risk of causing your team to lose the game), there will be 9 items, but any 3 items will combine to form a new item (new items do not combine with each other or smaller items). This gives... a whole bunch of combo items.

In short: I'm making an very small, very fast AoS with a maximum length of ~20 minutes, and I need:

Ideas - Heroes, Items, Spells, everything! If you contribute a hero I'll make sure to put your name on the hero as one of the randomized names.
Actual Spells - These always take forever, I'm planning on only a few heroes to start of with, maybe 6, but it'll still take a lot of work so if people have spells they wish to contribute please tell me.

I'll check back here later, if you have something to contribute directly e-mail it to me at [email protected]
 

Arcane

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Captures - The map has 6 towers on it, if a tower is destroyed the destroying team will gain a new tower at the position. Every 30 seconds towers change "form" between Fire (Splash), Ice (Slow), and Death (Poison). A capture awards 25 points.

cool! :)

but instead I expect a round to last anywhere from 1-10 minutes at most.

That's pretty short...I should be a bit longer, fifteen to twenty maybe...I could be just as fun with ten minutes too though if the map was made correctly.

And, what about the towers, are they going to be really weak? Or how could the game end so fast?

During rounds you and your three teamates will have time to capture as many "points" as possible.

Pretty original, correct me if I'm wrong... :D

You can purchase items using your teams points (at the risk of causing your team to lose the game), there will be 9 items, but any 3 items will combine to form a new item (new items do not combine with each other or smaller items). This gives... a whole bunch of combo items.

Cool, but maybe you should still make some more items? *or maybe not, since some people may not want to risk their points to buy items.

Ideas - Heroes, Items, Spells, everything! If you contribute a hero I'll make sure to put your name on the hero as one of the randomized names.
Actual Spells - These always take forever, I'm planning on only a few heroes to start of with, maybe 6, but it'll still take a lot of work so if people have spells they wish to contribute please tell me.

Sorry, I'm rather busy right now, I'll give you some ideas when I have time...so much school work... :banghead:

All in all, this is a great idea, and pretty original due to the point system, and I think it'll be a great game. I really want to play it when you finish! :D
 

Outbreak191

New Member
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Actually it sounds pretty similar to my map, because you can capture towers n'stuff. My map is also pretty short, the longest game I played was 30 mins and the shortest was 2 mins.
 

Darthfett

Aerospace/Cybersecurity Software Engineer
Reaction score
615
Sounds great! I'd like to contribute a hero... only i'm not done (or maybe two) based off of the water elemental, and blademaster. I'll be working on them for a little bit, and i have 2 working spells, and 2 under construction. (They're all triggered). Tell me once you have a working system done.
 
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what666said

Guest
Nice to here someone has some heroes they're willing to make! So far I've thrown up some terrain and i'm getting started on doing triggers right now.

I forgot to mention, each of the three bases will also two sets of units every 15 seconds and send one set towards each of the other two bases, during the first round the units are relatively weak, during the second round they get upgraded to stronger units, and during the final round they are very powerful.

NEWS:

The terrain is mostly done (minus tweaking obviously), and I've put together the triggers necessary for basics, hero picking, unit spawning etc...

Unless you're helping ignore the following:
So little to do on Thanksgiving while guests aren't here yet so i'm doing as much as possible on the map, Items are going right now, the following is the current list of 9 base items:

If you would like an item added to the game (with your name on it) just tell me what 3 items combine to form it, what it is, and what the stats should be (spells on items are welcome!)

1 Boots *8* - Add 40 to movement speed
2 Gloves *4* - Add 20% to attack speed
3 Sword *5*- Adds 15 damage to melee attacks
4 Bow *5*- Adds 15 damage to ranged attacks
5 Helm *5*- Adds +5 to intellegence
6 Leather Suit *5*- Adds +5 to agility
7 Chainmail *5*- Adds +5 to strength
8 Shield *5*- Adds +2 to armor
9 Staff *6* - Adds +2 to all stats

Those are the 9 purchasable items, these are the 12 "set" items (owning 3 items of a set AND THE SUIT OF ENHANCEMENT combines those 4 into a single item, with all 3 items' bonuses AND a charged spell!) If you'd like to contribute a set PLEASE do so!!

(The suit does not belong to a set)
5-6-7 = Suit of Enhancement (+10 all)
1-2-3 = Ninja's Boots (+50 move, +25% attack, +25 dmg)
1-3-8 = Ninja's Dagger Pair (+45 dmg, 40 move speed +2 armor)
2-3-8 = Ninja's Sword (+45 dmg, +20% attack, +2 armor)
1-5-9 = Mage's Helm (+40 move, +10 int, +4 all)
2-3-9 = Mage's Gloves (+20% attack, +10 int, +4 all)
2-6-9 = Mage's Suit (+20% attack, +7 all)
1-3-7 = Warrior's Hammer (+40 move, +10 str, +20 dmg)
2-3-7 = Warrior's Hands (+20% attack, +10 str, +20 dmg)
5-7-8 = Warrior's Mastery (+5 int, +5 str, +6 armor)
1-4-9 = Hunter's Movement (+50 move, +25 dmg, +5 all)
2-4-9 = Hunter's Trishot (+50% attack)
1-2-4 = Hunter's Bow (+50 move, +25% attack, +25 dmg)

Sets:

Ninja's Enhancement (+90 move, 45% attack, +115 dmg, +2 armor, +10 all, 5 charges of invisibility)
Mage's Enhancement (+40 move, +40% attack, +25 all, +20 int, 3 charges of an incredibly overpowered flamestrike)
Warrior's Enhancement (+40 move, +20% attack, +40 dmg, +10 all, +25 str, +5 int, +6 armor, 5 charges of an AOE 3 second stun)
Hunter's Enhancement (+80 move, +75% attack, +15 all, +50 dmg, 4 charges of a spell that pushes away all nearby units (300 aoe))

I know these are ridiculously overpowered when you think about it, but you have to remember when buying items you are taking away points from your team which could cause you to lose.

Cost is determined here (this WILL change):

1 attribute, or 5% attack, or 5 move, 3 damage = 1 point

Please feel free to make adjustments to these sets to make them better OR contribute your own!!! THESE ARE BY NO MEANS FINAL!

The real information for the un-interested in helping:

To answer some questions up higher: The three types of towers have been trashed for a better system, a team that kills a tower gains a new tower for their team, three teams are in the game currently, Undead, Night Elf, and Orcs (humans suck). I'll be changing these eventually to use creeps as their attacking units as I've never really enjoyed the look of the main units from races.

You may think that 5-10 minutes is too short, but you forget there are three rounds to a game, that would mean a total game is 15-30 minutes long which is perfect in my opinion. Also, you may have slightly misunderstood the purpose of a round. You do not want to kill enemy bases, in fact you can't since they're invulnerable (also: when a team has 1 tower or 0 towers they spawn units at a faster and MUCh faster rate respectively). Your goal is to dominate the map as quickly as possible and have enough points to not only be able to continue dominating but also have enough to win without worry.

I'm currently doing testing to calculate how many points each round will include (this is the latest idea). Instead of a time limit of 5-10 which is a little too static in my opinion, each round will have a set number of points available, when that number runs out all the units are killed, the heroes are moved to their base, and the next round starts.

Another addition: the first round is basically a prep round, most likely people will get their first 5 or so levels here and most players will get some items. This round will have half of the points of the second and third to make it go by quickly so it isn't boring and also so that people are encouraged to purchase items now (since you have 4x the chance of the first round to gain more points later on there is less pressure to keep items). The second round is a nuking battle, full points are given out so the battle is longer than the first, I expect heroes to either hit 10 or be near it. This is where it becomes a major tradeoff to use up your teams points since you might not be able to get them back later.

The third round will be more of a dueling round for heroes, the units are 4x stronger than the original units now but they are nothing compared to the heroes with their skills (remember the ridiculously overpowered items? wait till you see the ridiculously overpowered spells). This is where the game-breaking moments occur, killing a hero awards double normal points in this round.


Hopefully that wasn't too confusing! took me 6 edits to write :p
 

Korolen

New User (Why do I keep getting those red bars?)
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A few questions / comments:

What is your map called? It sounds like an uber map, and I won't be suprised if it replaces dota :D

With nine items, and three make a new one, that is 165 different combonations! That may take a little while to make. Also, with that many combonations, I would HIGHLY reccomend NOT using 165 combination triggers... There are MUCH more efficient ways of doing it.

I'd like to get the final version, and root out all the memory leaks. Alot of maps have them, and take years to close, plus get lagstorms because the creater either doesn't know how to, or just doesn't remove the leaks.

What custom things are you importing? What is your expected file size? Athough lots of cool things are, well, cool, they can really descourage people from dling and playing your map. Also, something that alot of people don't know, you can decrease the amout of space imported things take. Not by a whole ton, but enough to make a difference.

Just curious, are you triggering using JASS, or GUI?

How come some of the numbers for the different sets don't add up? Are they suppost to be like that, or is that just some mis-calculations?

Good luck with the map! When you finish, could you send me it? I can host, and I'd like to play it, and by doing that, spread it!
 
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what666said

Guest
Korolen said:
A few questions / comments:

What is your map called? It sounds like an uber map, and I won't be suprised if it replaces dota :D

With nine items, and three make a new one, that is 165 different combonations! That may take a little while to make. Also, with that many combonations, I would HIGHLY reccomend NOT using 165 combination triggers... There are MUCH more efficient ways of doing it.

I'd like to get the final version, and root out all the memory leaks. Alot of maps have them, and take years to close, plus get lagstorms because the creater either doesn't know how to, or just doesn't remove the leaks.

What custom things are you importing? What is your expected file size? Athough lots of cool things are, well, cool, they can really descourage people from dling and playing your map. Also, something that alot of people don't know, you can decrease the amout of space imported things take. Not by a whole ton, but enough to make a difference.

Just curious, are you triggering using JASS, or GUI?

How come some of the numbers for the different sets don't add up? Are they suppost to be like that, or is that just some mis-calculations?

Good luck with the map! When you finish, could you send me it? I can host, and I'd like to play it, and by doing that, spread it!

The map's name is pending, currently I have it saved under "Miniaturized"--but that will change when I come up with a decent idea.

I've revised my plan slightly and not all items will form new ones, only those items that form sets will form new ones. I'm aiming to have 9 or less sets. My goal is to keep people in the idea that items cost a large amount for your team and aren't worth it.

I have also layed out the point system: 800 points will be allocated in the first round, 1400 in the second, and 1600 in the third (to compensate for the 2x hero kill points). (These point amounts are for a 9 player game, in a 3 person game the points are, 500, 900, 1000, they will scale for games in between).

I'm no good with memory leaks so I'll definetely remember you when the time comes closer to release, thanks for offering your help :D.

As for imports, there will be many custom icons being imported, mostly for heroes spells and on the condition I can find people to help make them, I'm aiming to have a filesize under 500k, if the game becomes popular I would definetely foresee a change in that size.

Usually I trigger incredibly complicated spells in JASS and keep the rest of my triggering to GUI, it's easier for me to see. When I'm using local variables though I usually convert the trigger to JASS and use that.

The numbers aren't meant to add up, I think the final amounts for the sets were wildly different... but the sets themselves aren't exactly equal, my goal was to make it so that people with potentially stronger heroes are balanced by their sets... I'm also doubting people will get their sets in the first place as they can cost you the game if your not careful.
 

Rinpun

Ex TH Member
Reaction score
105
Good idea! How big is the map?

---On Item Combination---

Good ideas, but you'll need some more efficient triggers. What you need to do is pick an item of specific type and if it's combined with item x and item y, you get item z. This way you will have 165/3 less triggers...or 55 triggers. Of course, you could put triggers inside of triggers and you could drop down the size enough more, though you'd have gigantic triggers. Either way, whatever you do, use 55 triggers with various specifications on what the original item should be and then you have a conditions list on what items it is combined with.

On further review, it seems if you have 9 triggers devoted to starting with an original item, you can make them very large with various if statements based on just what two items it is combined with. You'd have 9 jammed triggers for item combination.
 
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what666said

Guest
Currently I have 13 triggers for the item combos, but right now there aren't that many items anyways so it's not very hard to do.

The map's size is 96x96, my whole idea revolves around the cramped quarters and inability to sit back and relax for very long or have long periods of not doing anything.
 

Rinpun

Ex TH Member
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Of course, I was just wondering how many details you'd put into it.
 
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what666said

Guest
Well, I used to put a lot of detail and time into terrain but I've realized that when people play a game, as long as the terrain isn't one texture and perfectly flat they rarely take too much note of it. It's simple but it accomplishes my goal fine so i'm happy.
 

Korolen

New User (Why do I keep getting those red bars?)
Reaction score
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For the item combination, you still don't need 55 triggers.
You said you knew some JASS, so I whipped up a little script (Not to great, but it should work):
Code:
function getItemComboID takes integer item1, integer item2, integer item3 returns string
    local string r = ""
    local integer i = 1
    loop
        exitwhen i > 9
        if i == item1 or i == item2 or i == item3 then
            set r = r + "1"
        else
            set r = r + "0"
        endif
        set i = i + 1
    endloop
    return r
endfunction

function getItemCombo takes integer item1, integer item2, integer item3 returns integer
    local integer buffer = 'h000'
    return GetStoredInteger(Cache(), "ItemCombos", getItemComboID(item1 - buffer, item2 - buffer, item3 - buffer))
endfunction

function setItemCombo takes integer item1, integer item2, integer item3, integer result returns nothing
    call StoreInteger(Cache(), "ItemCombos", getItemComboID(item1, item2, item3), result)
endfunction

function StoreItemCombos takes nothing returns nothing
    call setItemCombo(1, 5, 3, 'h092')
    ...
endfunction
You'd have to make another function that picks out the three combo items, though.

EDIT: Eh... That trigger sux. I can do wayyyy better...
 
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what666said

Guest
I'm taking a break tonight from working on the map to do some homework... otherwise i'll burn out by friday. But yeah the item system is going to take some work, I'm not sure yet but I'm thinking of making a big list of all the combos and then searching that when people get a new item (each combo of 3 items would be sorted by the item's ID smallest to largest) and it would keep going like that.

In reality I'm going to have to sit down at some point and work out a good way of doing it.


EDIT: Design decision! ALL units, items, and spells will have custom icons.
 
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what666said

Guest
Sorry to bump this, but I really do need help with hero ideas if anybody can give some.

Also on a side note -- unit groups have a maximum size (testing showed me that...) does anybody know what it is exactly?

2aabadc419.jpg
 

Korolen

New User (Why do I keep getting those red bars?)
Reaction score
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what666said said:
Also on a side note -- unit groups have a maximum size (testing showed me that...) does anybody know what it is exactly?
I don't know what the limit is for a unit group, but I've never encountered it. You'ed think that it would be pretty high... Why would you have to store more then a few hundred units? Any more units will probably lag the game, and not move. Anyway, you can use an array, which has a max value 2^13, or 8,192. If you ever have more then 8,192 units, then your are doing something wrong.
 
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what666said

Guest
Well the reason I was wondering about unit groups, is I have a unit group (3 actually, which I use to control the units that haven't gotten to the middle yet (before they split into two groups which each head towards the two other bases) but I noticed that eventually the units just stopped moving so I checked and sure enough, the unit group wasn't adding more units.

So then I took out dead units, but that causes the problem that since the units might not die for a while the unit group still fills up.

But it's fixed now.
 
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