My first project - D&D heroes, and an alignment system!

[Sajberhippie]

My first project - D&D campaign, updated!

Okay, some serious changes in plans have been made. So, here's the "new" project:

=======================================

It was a depressingly bad day. The autumn sky was dark and I was soaked by the constant rain that tore through mantle, skin, and flesh right into my heart. I could feel the bad news as tanglible as the constant wind on my teary eyes.

As usual, I was correct. Just when I reached the top of a hill, I could clearly see smoke in the distance. I crawled slowly back to the party, and even I could not move quiet in the puddles of mud covering the ground. Not that anyone would've heard through this wet wall, but it still disturbed me. This had to be the worst weather I'd seen in a decade.

I found the group covering under some pines, stood up, and approached them, knowing that they wouldn't have sat down without first checking the area for ambushes. I was rarely uncomfortable when around the Couatl. When he saw me coming, he rose to his feet and greeted me.
- So, did you see anything? the tall man said. As so many times before, his soft calm did wonders to my usually tense nerves.
- Yes, I did. If my eyes weren't mistaken, and you know they rarely are, Dylfrir is no more. I don't know the cause or the potential of survivors though. It's maybe three leages to the north-northeast from here.
- Then let's make haste. We can reach the town within just a few hours, provided the weather isn't worsening. He reached for his pack and made a sign to the others to get ready.
- Could it get worse than this? I asked with a smile, and ordered two scouts to take the lead with me.

So, I'm making a minor campaign featuring a D&D-inspired system. I'll not say to much about the story, but a short introduction follows here:
When all communication from the small town Dylfrir suddenly stops, Count Herbrid the Couatl and the famous arcane archer Thin'taralai is sent to investigate. When they reach the town, they realize a tribe of goblinoids has taken the town and the surviving humans have been enslaved... But it seems there's more to it than just the blackbloods, since the druid of the lands speak of sightings of Drow, the dark elves.

Playing as at least three races, the player will see a story of diabolical rituals, righteous might, and of a struggle for survival and power.

Seriously though, I hope it will be enough decent so that people will want to finish it at least XD...

So far I'm pretty much finished with the planning, although much will probably change, and I've done a good part of the D&D system. I've completed a bunch of customs and more is coming every hour.

Features:

• All units have ability scores, aka attributes - All units are heroes, though I haven't decided if all should be able to level yet.
• Small, intense fights is my goal rather than large armies marching towards each other, however, this may be changed and I might even do two versions since it won't be a big difference.
• Tactics will matter - A combination of different units will be better than in melee maps, since upgrades won't play such a big part. While damage types will matter less, all units will have special abilities, ranging from weapon focus to summoning spheres of darkness. Even commoners may get special abilities.
• All units will use items - Instead of upgrades, you can research the ability to create better weapons and armor.
• A rest system - Some skills may only be used once per day, for example, and then you must rest. Also, your life regeneration is very low unless you rest and your mana won't recover at all without a slumber.
• A class system - Straight from D&D. A unit has a class and gains attack speed, hit points and so on depending on his level in the class.
• A D&D feeling - While none of the features are spectacular in themselves, I'm working hard to create a true D&D feeling. A combination of simple features will hopefull make a great map.

Right now I'm doing it on my own, but I'm just glad if someone wants to help or be part of the project
I'm really bad at cinematics, I don't know any jass, I can't do more advanced skinning than recoloring and probably removing weapons and such, and I'm worthless at terraining. Of course learning is a great thing, but if someone wants to do any of these things, just ask!
ZeroThirteen, I know you've offered to do terraining, but at that time, the map was an RPG, but if you're still interested, just tell me

P.S. Sorry if my English is a little bad, i'm a Swede. It should be understandable language though, I believe

Some pictures are up now. Not much to see yet though, especially since I haven't got many special models, icons or even decent terrain.

The old text, not important now:

Spoiler

So, I'm working on creating a bunch of heroes based on some of the D&D prestige classes. For those of you who do not know, D&D is short for Dungeons and Dragons, the pen and paper roleplaying game ("one dice-based roleplaying system to rule them all"). The heroes will be balanced for melee games and should be fully implementable in common melee maps, though some may be useful for RPG's and other stuff too.

I'm writing this here to keep me from tireing of it XD I'm quite a chaotic good bard that often start new projects which never get finished.

Also, except for the heroes themselves, I'm inventing a simple alignment system, also based on D&D. All units have an alignment, a moral compass. It's normally invisible. However, as the alignments are true forces of nature (embodied in such good beings as archons and angels and such evil creatures as blue dragons and devils), a certain few abilities are affected by them. Right now, the only ones I have in mind implementing are Smite Good and Detect Alignment, both on the dreaded Blackguard.

As an extra feature, I will also have a simple implementation of D&D's bonus spells. In D&D, you can cast a certain number of spells per day, instead of having mana. At first level, a wizard normally can cast 4 spells per day. However, if his intelligence is at least 12, he can cast one extra, and if it is 20 (though that is normally impossible at level 1) he can cast two extra. While I'm not gonna have spells/day. However, I will make the spells they cast (not all abilities, just a certain special amount of actual spells) have a certain intelligence-based chance of skipping the cooldown. Basically, after 1/4 their cooldown, they have a chance equal to Intelligence/Cooldown to skip the rest. For example, Spider Hand has a 60 second cooldown. After 15 seconds, a caster with 19 intelligence has a 19/60 (about 30%) chance of skipping the rest of the cooldown.
I just realized, on the part above, that reseting cooldowns seem only possible for ALL cooldowns. Is there a way to reset only a specific cooldown? Although I don't know Jass, I'm pretty smart (i think) and probably could understand how to implement a certain code should I get it...

So, the system is ready to be thrown up on the web, just a few minor tweaks and graphicals bug left to correct? Not excactly. In fact, I've only finished a single hero. Almost. He's got one skill left, and some more serious changes to one he has.

The heroes I have in mind right now are the following:

The Vermin Lord - From the Book of Vile Darkness, he prefers the thrill of spiders crawling on his back and beetles living in his mouth to the warm touch of a human being. However, my version isn't very likely to be evil. The vermin lord is in fact much like a druid, just that he prefers scorpions to wolves, and I see no evil in that. It's an agility-based hero (none of my heroes will be intelligence-based, intelligence has it's own merits though). This is the almost finished hero, and he's got the following abilities:
Spellcasting - A vermin lord has knowledge of druidic magic, and can cast the following spells (these can get bonus spells as noted above, and they are nearly finished):
1st level - Eyes of the Moth: This spell actually has nothing to do with D&D, just needed a filler. It's kind of a sentinel-lookalike, that sends a moth to a destructible to spy for the vermin lord.
2nd level - Giant Vermin: The vermin lord takes a random bug from his clothes and magically enlarges it to several times it size. Summons a beetle, scorpion, or spider (each have equal chance of spawning). With a higher level of Swarm Armor, their abilities increase slightly.
3rd level - Spider Hand: The vermin lord rips of his own hand, that turns into a spider that climbs the target. It webs and bites him, slowing and dealing damage. However, ripping off one's own hand isn't painless, and it deals 50 damage as well as slows attack speed by 80% to the vermin lord.
Swarm Armor: Thousands of insects constantly crawl over the vermin lord, working as good as any real armor. Gives a bonus to armor class, and provides the vermin lord with a good amount of bugs for the Giant Vermin spell. This ability is finished.
Blood Drain: With the mandibles that begin to protrude from the vermin lord, he can grab and suck the life out of his enemies. While grappling an enemy, they are stunned (the spell is kind of a channeling spell), and lose life over time. This ability isn't finished.
Spew Vermin (Ultimate): From the mouth of the vermin lord rolls a carpet of scorpions out, eating and tearing away anything in their path. This spell is kind of like a mix between Tornado and Locust Swarm. This ability is finished.

Blackguard - The blackguard may be a tyrannical conqueror, a fallen paladin, or simply an evil fighter that has somehow been chosen by the dark powers. He is the antithesis of good and righteous, and has a soul blacker than the plane of shadows. A great warrior with dirty tactics, that also has an affinity for black magic. He's strength-based, and has the following abilities:
Spell-casting - The blackguard knows a small amount of spells. I'm not sure excactly what spells I will use, but these seem likely (these will get the bonus spells mentioned above):
1st level - Bane: All enemies within a certain radius gets a damage penalty. Duration based on intelligence.
2nd level - Know Alignment: Shows the alignment of all nearby creatures. Range based on intelligence.
3rd level - Darkness: Summons a globe of darkness, that impairs vision. Duration based on intelligence.
Smite Good: A single attack that severely hurts the very soul of good beings. It deals extra damage based on character and skill level, but only works against good units. If one doesn't have Know Alignment, it's a bit risky, but generally, night elves tend to be good, and a fair deal of humans are good too.
Sneak Attack: Don't get a blackguard behind your back. This is a passive that increases the damage against anyone that isn't focused at the blackguard, based on agility.
Fiendish Servant: I'm quite unsure of this ability. In D&D, it does the following:
Upon or after reaching 5th level, a blackguard can call a fiendish bat, cat, dire rat, horse, pony, raven, or toad to serve him.
Note: Fiendish is a variant of the creature that hails from the Abyss or the Nine Hells. It's basically intelligent, evil, and has some small supernatural abilities.
The only viable options here would be Raven or Horse. If horse, it will probably be a permanent change that gives him a horse (logic!) and increases movement speed, and maybe also gives a bit of evasion. If raven, it will be a locust-clone with only one summon (which is the raven) and about infinite duration.

Shifter - A druid focusing in shifting to other forms. Many shifters would state that any of their shapes is but one nuance of their soul, including their natural shape. It's a hero wich is normally agility-based (although this may change!) and the abilities I've come up with so far is:
Spellcasting - A shifter has druidic spellcasting. They are centered on healing and growth (as usual, spells can get bonus castings).
1st level - Eyes of the Night: Gives ultravision basically.
Wolf Form - Transforms the shifter into a wolf. While in wolf-form, she cannot cast spells (though she can use other shape-shifts). The wolf has Shadow-meld, Scent (true sight, that is), high agility, and has high movement speed.
Bear Form - Transforms the shifter into a bear. While in bear-form, she cannot cast spells (though she can use other shape-shifts). The bear is strength-based and has high strength, and somewhat higher movement speed.
Dragon Form (Ultimate) - Transforms the shifter into a red dragon. The dragon has high strength and is strength-based, flies, and has high movement speed. It can breathe fire. This is the only form that is gonna be time-limited.
I know that it could be hard to have as many shape-shifts, but I'm gonna base them on summoning skills instead of real shape-shifting skills.

These are the one that I've come up with so far. I've also got some ideas for the Demonologist, The Thrall of Graz'zt, Hierophant, and Pale Master.

Feel free to give suggestions

 

[emjlr3]

not much of a screensot you got there.....

 

[ZeroThirteen]

Ooh, I LOVE the Blackguard! I saw that they were based on Prestige classes, and I was expecting it to be the first one.

Pretty decent, but definitely get some more screenshots so I can see how this is actually coming along.

 

[diggoran]

Nice! I love D&D but it seemed to have died on azeroth. I saw it twice, enough to get hooked, and then I never saw it again. Goodluck and make sure it's great!

 

[Sajberhippie]

Well, the Alignment system is finished (mostly, noticed a minor graphical bug like 5 secs ago ><). I've even got a print-screen of it!

Now, this isn't what the Blackguard is gonna be. It's just a death knight with changed model that has gotten the detect alignment. Please ignore the fact that the skill looks like Howl of Terror will ya? XD

This is how Detect Alignment will work. Red means evil, green means neutral, and blue means good. The alignments are set when the unit is created, and can't in any way be changed afterwards (right now... Might consider an Atonement spell XD). The detection in itself just shows which units might be good targets for Smite Evil .
As you can also see, night elves are mostly good (80% are good, 19% neutral, 1% evil), humans vary greatly (50% good, 30% neutral, 20% evil), most orcs doesn't care but are more for evil than good (20% good, 50% neutral, 30% evil), nearly all undead are evil (98% evil, 2% neutral), and, as you can't see, all demons are evil.

 

[Sajberhippie]

So, it's going well, I'm ready with the Vermin Lord (except for the not-working Shared Spell Cooldown for spellbooks above level 1...), and nearly ready with the Blackguard. I'll upload a first test version tonight, or tomorrow.

I've come to the conclusion to make 5 prestige-class based heros, which can be used as mercenary heros, and 4 base-class heroes for each race. All base class heroes will be based around Fighter, Rogue, Cleric and Wizard, although they will be different between the races (for example, an Elven Wizard is specialized at Transmutation, gaining spells such as Gaseous Form and Enlarge, while the Undead Necromancer can Cause Fear and utter a Wail of the Banshee). Not all skills will be heavily coded, some may be old wc3 spells with just new graphics, although most will have some new feature.

 

[ZeroThirteen]

You should make it a Sorceror instead of a Wizard, because Sorcerors are naturally able to cast their abilities. Technically, Wizards would have either a long casting time or a need for a scroll to cast an ability.

Keep up the work on the heroes. I want to see how this turns out!

And if you wouldn't mind, because I'm just sitting here broed for today, upload the map as far as you have it done, play some other random game to keep you from wanting to edit the map, and let me do some terraining on it. If so, I'd need to know what you wanted where. (Caves, forests, dungeons, paths, and anything else except for towns.)

EDIT: I threw together a terraining job. You can take a look if you want. I'll also put up the map sometime so you can take a look for yourself.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

[Sajberhippie]

You should make it a Sorceror instead of a Wizard, because Sorcerors are naturally able to cast their abilities. Technically, Wizards would have either a long casting time or a need for a scroll to cast an ability.

Sorry, that's kind of wrong ... Wizards have as long casting time for regular spells (1 action for most), and shorter for spells modified by metamagic (sorceres have a full turn casting time instead of an action for most). They HAVE a longer preparation time, 1 hour instead of the sorcerers "meditation" time, or whatever it's called, which is about 15 minutes from what I remember.
I did ponder on whether to use sorcerers or wizards, especially for the orcs since they aren't known for their academic pursuits, but I wanted to keep it the same for all four races, at least in the beginning, and the four base classes are the simplest forms. I may feature sorcerers sometime, but they will have fewer spells (as in the game; more spells per day (lower mana cost) but fewer known spells), right now all wizards/clerics have 6 abilities (3 regular and a spellbook with 1 spell/level). I know sorcerers may seem easier, but I do like the wizards more, plus, the sorcerers came with the end of 2nd edition, while wizards have been around, under the name of magic-user, since the first publication ever. They are more traditional.
However, I'll probably feature a Thrall of Graz'zt as one of the prestige characters, and that one's gonna be based on a sorcerer.

Keep up the work on the heroes. I want to see how this turns out!

Thanks, note though that I'm not an advanced user, and I can't do modelling or even skinning (although I'm gonna try it someday, when this project is ready, to nicen (is that a word?) it up). Most spells won't be the über-flashy spells of some AoS's or RPG's out there, but it's more of a feeling it's gonna be based on.
I've just realized how hard it is to do fighters in Wc3. They've got a billion different feats with just 1 level each.

And if you wouldn't mind, because I'm just sitting here broed for today, upload the map as far as you have it done, play some other random game to keep you from wanting to edit the map, and let me do some terraining on it. If so, I'd need to know what you wanted where. (Caves, forests, dungeons, paths, and anything else except for towns.)

EDIT: I threw together a terraining job. You can take a look if you want. I'll also put up the map sometime so you can take a look for yourself.

I VERY MUCH don't mind +rep instantly, i tell you! I'm just very happy if someone could help me with a map. This will be more focused on a system rather than a map, 'cause it would be fun if people implemented and tested it in any melee map, but to have a unique, NICE-LOOKING map like the one you posted to show it of in, would be great
I really don't know what i'd like in a map, except these things: It's a melee map, it's in a natural environment like Lordaeron, Ashenvale, Northrend or any of those and not like Outland or Dungeon, and it's for somewhere like 6 or 8 players...
I don't know how much needs to be done specifically on terrain to make it work with computer players, but if it isn't difficult, that would be great too. I'm probably gonna make some trigger that makes the computer player get standard units so single players (like me ><) can use the map somehow.

 

[ZeroThirteen]

I think it would be a little better to include a more RPG-styled map than it would to have a melee map for one sepcific reason- in D&D, you don't own a town hall and eventually gain the ability to produce your character.

I don't know how much needs to be done specifically on terrain to make it work with computer players, but if it isn't difficult, that would be great too. I'm probably gonna make some trigger that makes the computer player get standard units so single players (like me ><) can use the map somehow

If you really thought about this project, would it spread if people wanted to play it in single player? Would people even WANT to play it in single player? I really don't think so. With that being said, the only terrain I will design will be that of an RPG- I'm really not great at melee terrain, anyways. I'd really like you to upload the map so I can get going on it!

 

[Sajberhippie]

I think it would be a little better to include a more RPG-styled map than it would to have a melee map for one sepcific reason- in D&D, you don't own a town hall and eventually gain the ability to produce your character.

Sure, but quite frankly, I can't make an RPG. Of course, I could come up with a story, design, and all that, but 1. I'm not nearly good enough with triggers, 2. I'm not any good at mapping, and 3. There are so god damn many good RPG's, there's no way I could even imagine to get my played then.
While D&D is a role-playing game, warcraft is not. And I've played D&D campaigns involving large-scale warfare, where I've commanded (or rather, bribed the commander of) thousands of soldiers.

If you really thought about this project, would it spread if people wanted to play it in single player? Would people even WANT to play it in single player? I really don't think so. With that being said, the only terrain I will design will be that of an RPG- I'm really not great at melee terrain, anyways. I'd really like you to upload the map so I can get going on it!

I don't actually know, since this is my first project. The thing is, I want to make it more of a system, so that it can be used for whatever I manage to make later. Melee's are good in that they are easy to do, and easy to test out it in, and I know I would want to play this single player (although of course, multplayer is more fun). I really think the D&D game has a lot to offer in forms of strategic additions, many D&D spells for example are more strategic than pure damage-dealing (Levitation, Darkness, and Mass Camoflauge are examples I was thinking of using).
I know I'd rather make an RPG, if I could, but right now, I can't. Half of the goal is making the system; half of the goal is getting to learn the editor better (if you've seen my earlier posts, half of them are questions, and that's despite I try to help other people XD).
I understand if you don't want to do the mapping, thanks anyway. If I finally make an RPG, I'll definately ask you, the maps looked great.

 

[ZeroThirteen]

How about we do the DM-style D&D? Build your own towns and dungeons, create your own monsters, and pretty much do it the way you want it. It seems like it would be a lot easier than making an actual RPG (and I could do the majority of the triggers), but we won't have to crush your dream of creating a system for heroes. People could use them in, essentially, any type of map that they want. How does that sound?

 

[Sajberhippie]

Hmmm... Do you mean something like in the way of how Neverwinter Nights works? That one player is a DM who can build and create whatever they want, and the other players are heroes?

That could be interesting, though it seems no less work than an actual RPG XD

But otherwise, if you too are interested in making a D&D RPG, if we could help each other (while I'm no good at the wc3 editor, I sure am good with D&D, having DM'd it for 7 years XD) it would probably be a reachable goal. Have you made many maps before?

 

[ZeroThirteen]

This is a confirmation post. It's on a Wii, and I don't want to type it all out, so I'll edit this post tomorrow.

 

[Sajberhippie]

This is a confirmation post. It's on a Wii, and I don't want to type it all out, so I'll edit this post tomorrow.

Well, when you get back, please consider this idea: A competitive RPG. Two groups of rivaling nations/towns whatever, that are set on quests (sometimes with different goals, sometimes the same goals) following a plot line. Not like a big AoS where you just beat the crap out of each other, but more subtle rivalry. A few skirmishes here and there, sabotages and the like...
The players mostly control only their character, though they may under certain circumstances control a few soldiers or the like too.

A short story idea I came up with based on a D&D world I DM in right now:
Darniad is a country of common farmers and traders, that has recently (like, fifty years ago or something) come under the control of a great devil named Xianthots. The neighbouring country, the richt magocracy Fynrin, opposes the demon's rule, but not being a warrior country, they haven't dared attack. Xianthots himself doesn't think attacking Fynrin is worth it, mages are troublesome and he has heard rumours of a cult trying to open a gate to allow his arch-nemesis from the Blood War, the fiendish beholder known as One-Eye, to enter. They have been spotted both in the northern mountains of Järvens Klippa (wolverine's rock) and in the south-west, over the border to Fynrin, in Pixie Woods.

The Cult of the Eye aren't the only ones trying to summon extraplanar creatures though; one of fynrin's prime wizards, one of the few actually interested in the neighbouring country, living in the north-western town of Dinn, is trying to research the spell needed to summon a mighty Titan, a great champion of good that he hopes to be able to free Darniad. His town is near the border to Fynrin, and goblins fleeing the warriors of Xianthots has caused lots of trouble. It's in everyones interest to get that demon away.

This is where the map begins. The demon are sending a group of his finest warriors (The first group of RP's) to investigate the cult from the Fortress of Tek'Badun, at the border to Fynrin, not far from where Dinn, and the wizard, is trying to summon the Titan. They have also noted the strange magical emanations from Pixie Woods, and are about to send the cleric Fandrian the Righteous, a very dedicated warrior-priest, with an escort consisting of the other group of RP's. If Xianthots finds out about the Titan though, the conflict could only escalate...

Quests that could fit in well could things as:
Ridding the place of left-over goblins from the recent goblin war (for the good)
Catching a traitor giving information to the other side (probably for the good)
Stopping the summoning of the major demon (for both, although if the good RP's find out why One-Eye wants to enter the world, they'll have a dilemma)
Earning the help of other nearby groups (for both, maybe a drow ranger with a stoicism like no-one else and an extraplanar panther happens to be traveling by? )
Opening trade routes between towns that has been blocked by the goblins (for the good)
Blocking trade routes between towns (for the evil)
Assassination of important characters (for the evil, and maybe for the good too, although hardly assassination).

Does it sound like it can work?

 

[ZeroThirteen]

It would be a bit complex, but I'm liking the way it's sounding. Handling two sides at once in triggers might get a bit tough, but I think we could cope. Now, I'd like you to stop talking about it and upload the map!

On second thought, though, why don't you just get the heroes finished? I'll go over and proofread them once you're done, and correct any mistakes. Then I can get working on the terrain. Do you think that two towns per team is good? I like the way that sounds. I'm going to draw an image and map out a few things to show you what I have in mind.

Alright, here it is:

Spoiler

Green - Forested Area (there will be some, possibly secret, areas inside- not just linear paths)
Gray Mountains - Mountain Passageway (Quest related, plus offers a quicker way around)
Red Lines - Gates (Initially closed, but will open as the game progresses. Also, some only open periodically - see "Arena")
Gray Box - A town (You can decide which towns belong to which side, but I reccomend the Dark on the left and the Good on the right)
Orange Box - Arena (The characters can occasionally come here for battles with monsters or the other team, but the gates are closed otherwise)
Blue - A lake (Duh... Quest related, and might be used for some other things)

Keep on workin' on that map!



And as for some more details...
The second town on each team becomes accessible once the intro is done and a few quests have been completed. Most of the creeps in the forest are fairly easy (the farther you go from the town, the tougher it gets). The lake area has mainly water based creatures, ranging from medium-easy to medium-hard monsters. The Mountains are brimming with tough monsters. And the Arena has virtually all types of monsters- it constantly changes throughout the game.

 

[Sajberhippie]

Looking nice! I've encountered some problems though. Everything just stopped working (or rather, the Alignment system and the Darkness spell, which is the one that has taken the longest time, stopped working). They worked at first, but then they just stopped, whithout me knowingly changing anything.

I'll probably restart the whole thing. Now that I know how to do most of the things, it won't take to long. However, what heroes should we have for that type of map? Should it be one hero per person, or should they be able to recruit more heroes through quests? What races should we use? I think there should be recruitable help somehow, but maybe they don't have to be able to control them...
Do these heroes seem enough?
Good - Half-orc druid, gnome bard, halfling rogue, human barbarian, elven wizard, dwarven fighter, half-elven ranger, human monk, human sorcerer, human paladin, human cleric
?Cain gain help from - Pixie illusionists, barbarians, Titan

Evil - Gnome druid, human bard, halfling rogue, half-orc barbarian, elven wizard, dwarven fighter, drow ranger, human monk, human sorcerer, half-elven blackguard, human cleric
?Can gain help from - Demonic horde, drow raiding party, assassin

Also, there may be a big evil beholder killing stuff off.

The map looks nice, but I'll post the map that we're using in our game too, the part that is Dinn and Pixie's spring and such... Of course we could use another one, but so you can see how my gaming groups version of it looks
Sorry for some of the names being in Swedish, but it's easy to translate (or maybe keep them in swedish, swedish is a great fantasy language! I mean, dwarves are like short vikings that don't like boats XD)

 

[ZeroThirteen]

It's sounding good!
Not the fact that you lost the saved data, but...

I'm not quite sure I like the ability to gain heroes. I was thinking about 4-5 heroes a team, and I could do the skills if you need me to. Also, at level 10, the heroes could have two options- giving up their current character to get a Prestige character, or keeping him to get to level 20 faster. Here's my ideas for the heroes:
Evil

• Elven Ranger -> ???
• Human Fighter -> Blackguard
• Drow Wizard -> Vermin Lord
• Human Monk -> Shifter

Good

• Human Paladin -> ???
• Dwarven Fighter -> ???
• Elven Wizard -> Loremaster (With spells!)
• Halfling Cleric -> ???

The arrows show which Prestige class each character can become. It's up to you if you like the style, but I thought that having a set prestige class for each character was a good idea. As for the skills... I can get a lot of those done, but do the characters first. Make sure you do each of the heroes, get the appropriate models, and balance their stats.

Which, by the way, you do know how all of the "Stats -" fields work in the Object Editor, right?

And one more thing I want to bring up- are you sure a Beholder is the best choice? Technically, in game, they're only a CR of about 8. Once the heroes get to that level, he's no challenge. I want a roaming monster that will be terrifying. Maybe a Tarrasque?


Well, it's going good. Keep it up.

EDIT: Alright, you can go ahead and do the skills for the three Prestige classes you already have. But I'd like to handle the other characters. And, if you'd like to, you can do the other Prestige classes as well. Whatever seems good to you.

So, now the question arises: what monsters should we include?

 

[Sajberhippie]

It's sounding good!
Not the fact that you lost the saved data, but...

I'm not quite sure I like the ability to gain heroes. I was thinking about 4-5 heroes a team, and I could do the skills if you need me to. Also, at level 10, the heroes could have two options- giving up their current character to get a Prestige character, or keeping him to get to level 20 faster. Here's my ideas for the heroes:


Evil

• Elven Ranger -> ???
• Human Fighter -> Blackguard
• Drow Wizard -> Vermin Lord
• Human Monk -> Shifter

Good

• Human Paladin -> ???
• Dwarven Fighter -> ???
• Elven Wizard -> Loremaster (With spells!)
• Halfling Cleric -> ???

Yes, 4-5 heroes per team is enough. But I still like the idea of recruiting people to help, they don't have to tag along the party, but can work as NPC-controlled extra soldiers.
I don't really know if I like the idea to be able to change class, first off, that means you either have to start off with just a small number of skills, or you will actually lose skills when you gain the class. I was more thinking that prestige classes here would be like regular classes, but maybe limited to NPC's... I prefer having more heroes to choose from at the beginning.

As for the skills... I can get a lot of those done, but do the characters first. Make sure you do each of the heroes, get the appropriate models, and balance their stats.

Which, by the way, you do know how all of the "Stats -" fields work in the Object Editor, right?

Yes, I think I know most of the stuff in the object editor. I still have things to learn about triggering, but it's coming along.
I have no problem with doing skills, so far it's been easy (well, I've been forced to ask how to a few times, but nothing has been impossible and I've been able to do most of the things myself) and fun. If you want to make them, we can split them. I'm no good at terraining and that stuff though, so it would be great if you could do that part.
I'm currently working on the heroes, but I haven't gotten any custom models/skins yet. I can change textures a bit (like, recoloring and other easy tasks) but I can't model at all, and I didn't feel it was urgent.

I was thinking of having more d&d'ish stats too, currently I've given the heroes stats with an average of 15, and have set the life/str to 3 and mana/int to 0. I was thinking that if we put life regen very low, and no mana regen, and make a rest ability that reset those, we could get more the feel of the magic and healing system of D&D.

And one more thing I want to bring up- are you sure a Beholder is the best choice? Technically, in game, they're only a CR of about 8. Once the heroes get to that level, he's no challenge. I want a roaming monster that will be terrifying. Maybe a Tarrasque?

Well, beholder was the original monster of the setting I play in in PnP d&d. Oh, and beholders have a nice CR of 13, and a half-fiendish, as this is, 16. A 16 CR-monster is nearly overpowering for characters of quite low level, which they may be at the time it comes. That's why they should stop it
And since both teams want it gone, maybe they could even co-operate...

Well, it's going good. Keep it up.


EDIT: Alright, you can go ahead and do the skills for the three Prestige classes you already have. But I'd like to handle the other characters. And, if you'd like to, you can do the other Prestige classes as well. Whatever seems good to you.

Is there some special reason why I shouldn't do base class skills? They are probably easier to make...
I was actually thinking that maybe we should skip the prestige classes alltogether XD

So, now the question arises: what monsters should we include?

I had an idea. It would be great if we could include spells such as Bull's Strength and Ray of Enfeeblement, but those require attributes on the target.
Would it be possible to make all creatures heros with stats? This would make it easy to advance creatures as the game goes by, and at different places, and would make it easy to balance their life and such (as they have the same standards as the RP's then). It would allow the afore mentioned spells to work, and would in a sense be very logical. There are easy-to-make NPC classes (for a Warrior, take the fighter class and remove most of the skills, for example), and also, if we wanted, every single NPC could have an automatically generated name.
It would be a little extra work, but not much extra I think... Then I don't know if lots of heros but large pressure on the computer, but I've seen TD's where they spawn a hundred heros at the same time.

I think most units should be human. A few other player races such as elves and gnomes, and some goblinoids. In the forest there can be the occacional beast (owlbears and dire animals) and a few other monsters here and there...

 

[ZeroThirteen]

I think the hero creeps are a decent idea, but having skills based around reducing an enemy's stats aren't the greatest to have. Things get a little complex with that.

A Beholder sounds alright to have as a monster, what with the CR of 13, but are you sure just a few dire animals and the occassional owlbear is going to keep the heroes happy? I was thinking we could also put in things such as tendriculoses, trolls, orcs, harpies, and so on... they provide a greater sense of accomplishemt than killing a giant, mutated owl.

Well, whatever the case, do what you feel like with the map. I'm just here for suggestions. But, then again, you do need me for terraining...

 

[Sajberhippie]

I think the hero creeps are a decent idea, but having skills based around reducing an enemy's stats aren't the greatest to have. Things get a little complex with that.

How are those complex? I've made Bear's Endurance for the druid already, it works great so far... Just a dummy skill for casting, and an strength-enhancing item passive, and a simple trigger that give the item skill to the target of the dummy skill... And then a trigger to check to remove it every second. It would be easy to add ones that reduce in the same way.

A Beholder sounds alright to have as a monster, what with the CR of 13, but are you sure just a few dire animals and the occassional owlbear is going to keep the heroes happy? I was thinking we could also put in things such as tendriculoses, trolls, orcs, harpies, and so on... they provide a greater sense of accomplishemt than killing a giant, mutated owl.

You're probably right with having other monsters, but I think they would have to fit the story in some way... Hmmm... Tendrilucoses can appear a little wherever, so that would be easy. Harpies are often used by creatures of the lower plains as spies (from what I remember, the Hag Countess actually has a score of Rog 5 Fiendish harpies at her disposal) so they would appear natural to combat, at least for the good ones. Trolls have to be the D&D-troll, the large, lumbering, disgusting beast that dies in seconds from flames but is almost impossible to kill otherwise. Also, the fey creatures in Pixie Woods will of course notice the conflict, and there lives sea elves in the small lakes that dot the surroundings of Dinn.

Well, whatever the case, do what you feel like with the map. I'm just here for suggestions. But, then again, you do need me for terraining...

Heh, with all the help you're giving me, this is gonna be as much your map as mine