My version of pretty cliffs...

Discussion in 'Starcraft 2 (SC2) Editor Help' started by punwisp, May 11, 2010.

  1. Ancanus

    Ancanus [ancanus@TheHelper.net]# _

    Ratings:
    +54 / 0 / -0
    Even better, select Ignore Placement as an option when creating the units.
     
  2. FannyShaver

    FannyShaver Well-Known Member

    Ratings:
    +31 / 0 / -0
    Mate, there is no way to solve this issue. there is another thing with cliffs, that it's fading cliffs corners as well, did you noticed that? Cliffs are far too big for me. As lost as they take twice as in wc3 there is no way to move my map there. I did tried in editor a lot. No way.
     
  3. Advice D.

    Advice D. New Member

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    +11 / 0 / -0
    Well, since you don't need units to be able to stand on top of them, you could just use the "pretty cliffs method" with LOS blockers to make your thin walls. Unless there's something to this I'm not getting.
     
  4. JWinz

    JWinz New Member

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    +2 / 0 / -0
    [​IMG][​IMG]

    A 1x1 cliff tile with standard Dark Templars, both unit size and collision completely unchanged. This demonstrates the superior pathing system that will easily allow building and movement on cliff edges. As for the actual sizes of the terrain, Blizzard has stated that they have kept them to scale with the original Starcraft. A 128x128 SC2 map will house the same amount of terrain a 128x128 SC map did.
     
  5. sqrage

    sqrage Moderator Staff Member

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    +508 / 0 / -0
    He wants them to NOT be able to stand on the cliff, as in a WC 1x1 cliff. The SC2 cliffs are automatically large enough for a unit to stand on.
     
  6. punwisp

    punwisp New Member

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    +34 / 0 / -0
    And he can't ignore this aspect why?
     
  7. sqrage

    sqrage Moderator Staff Member

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    +508 / 0 / -0
    Perhaps because when he imports his map it throws off all the terraining. (Not sure if it actually does that.)
     
  8. JWinz

    JWinz New Member

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    +2 / 0 / -0
    Then why is he talking about SC2 requiring double the map size to accomplish the same objective that his WC3 map achieved with terrain? My point was to show things being able to fit more tightly on cliffs as in WC3 so that the terrain can serve the same purpose with the same size.

    However, the reverse is also true. You can make cliffs less accommodating by using the same method so that units may not stand on a 1x1 tile space.

    [​IMG]

    The point is simple: cliffs in SC2 (1x1 size) are equivalent to 2x2 in WC3. If he bothered to look past his own stubborn idiocy for at least 10 seconds he would see that a new terrain layout and a little pathing tool would accomplish the same goal while also providing the many other benefits of using the SC2 engine to develop a map. Though I could care less if he doesn't buy the game, one less half-assed garbage map by a lazy mapper that I have to sift through.
     
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  9. FannyShaver

    FannyShaver Well-Known Member

    Ratings:
    +31 / 0 / -0
    @up

    You're wrong out there. Unit will be always able to step on the cliff, as simply, according to map size, cliffs are 2x2 always. This completely wrecks my map. Though there could be other ways to take care of it, like doing a gap in the terrain, which is 1x1 and put some vision blockers there. But my map has towers on the cliffs, and a range from the cliff is 50, behind the gap, 100. This is kinda crucial on my map, as literally, every single piece of the terrain counts! Because of that:

    [​IMG]

    Normal cliff this size in wc3 would be indicated by blue box only, instead, in sc2 we have increased size - a red box - and flatten corners which are completely crashing the idea of making a map where every single piece counts - green box. That is why I am taking no further actions moving my map to sc2. Ill wait for wc4 - dunno how long.
     
  10. BlowingKush

    BlowingKush I hit the blunt but the blunt hit me.

    Ratings:
    +183 / 0 / -0

    lol. couldnt have said it better myself.
    pre-pubesent anger like this is better off left in the basement.
     
  11. Sensang

    Sensang TH.net Regular

    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0
    just make every unit twice as big, and the default camera view from doubled distance... then you half every movement speed.
    result: the same as if you had wc3. ofc this would require some work... I mean I dunno about your map. If it's any good that shouldnt scare you off. (when you spend like more than 24 hours creating something 20-30 minutes of resizing stuff shouldnt be the greatest issue)

    At least thats my best guess... but feel free to leave this game alone. Havent heard of your wc3 map anyhow... :p
     
  12. punwisp

    punwisp New Member

    Ratings:
    +34 / 0 / -0
    Ever heard of adapting?

    What do you think Wc4 will be like? its editor is going to be lot more powerful the GE, just like GE was lot more powerful than WE. What makes you think they wont be the same as this? If not bigger?

    You would be waiting for least 6 years before it comes out, if not more.

    Also, your ignoring the fact that once Sc2 comes out, people will be working hard setting the max size a lot higher

    Remember newgen on WE? Stop being so closed minded >.>
     
  13. FannyShaver

    FannyShaver Well-Known Member

    Ratings:
    +31 / 0 / -0
    Making units to move faster and make them bigger won't solve the issue with cliffs and their corners. As long as it looks that way, and there is no way to make them different, I simply give up, and see what happens next. Unless someone will find a way to make it different. I can't stress enough about that.
     
  14. punwisp

    punwisp New Member

    Ratings:
    +34 / 0 / -0
    Why can't you just adapt adapt? Remake?

    Whats your map about anyway
     
  15. FannyShaver

    FannyShaver Well-Known Member

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    +31 / 0 / -0
    Tag - a Vampirism. See my resources. I won't adapt, this cost me far too much calculations. Looks simple, but damn isn't.
     
  16. punwisp

    punwisp New Member

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    +34 / 0 / -0
    People will be making ways to increase the maximum map size, would you take that into consideration?
     
  17. FannyShaver

    FannyShaver Well-Known Member

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    +31 / 0 / -0
    Map size isnt a problem. Units size and their movement can be increased. There are other problems, the green box, which is literally stealing the space! I could make it unbuildable, to make people lose space or make people to lose two towers on both beginning and the end of a ramp. Not going to.

    Just to increase your understanding of the problem:

    [​IMG]

    1) Right, first of all, because of the [green box] corners are unbuildable;
    2) Ramps doesn't seem to be unbuildable, but in case of this I guess this could have been changed in editor somewhere;
    3) If i'd want to make the green box unbuildable anyway this would make quite few towers to lose their range and bring a mess in the spot calculations (for instance, those towers you can see on the picture are speed towers, initialy with attack range of 400, using single spot you can stick two of them in a row and a third row if upgraded which increases their attack range to 500. I could increase the range of those speedtowers, but then, people on spots which aren't designed for speedtowers would have far too much adventages using speedtowers with extra range, which would bring just a massive mess in the calculations and decrease balance);
    4) Also, is the green box would be unbuildable, cliff would have looked the way it should do, with the cliff actually with the size of the ramp, as it used to do in warcraft3, but because of the [red box] it doesn't.
     
  18. punwisp

    punwisp New Member

    Ratings:
    +34 / 0 / -0
    You can't just adjust, and redesign?

    [​IMG]

    There, built in corner, with custom cliffs, the red is ground pathing, so units cant walk on them, just like the pathing blockers in wc3, only these aren't doodads, this is far more efficient. The only way a ground unit could get to those towers is either

    A. Range

    B. they flew (Collosus/reaper?)

    c. Walker around to the custom ramp.

    This is what you would call improvising, these cliffs were pretty easy to make, took me like 5 seconds and set up, this style I use works exactly the same as the normal cliffs, only this is far more flexible, and you aren't very limited at all, unlike the normal cliff system.
     
  19. Cookiemaster

    Cookiemaster New Member

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    +36 / 0 / -0
    Isn't it possible to, by use of making your own cliffs with the height tool, as well as some clever pathing map editing, to get the same result?

    The only problem that remains then is some fiddling with fog of war.
     
  20. FannyShaver

    FannyShaver Well-Known Member

    Ratings:
    +31 / 0 / -0
    How, how did you do that ramp and cliff?
     

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