Sci/Tech New IBM computer chip mimics the human brain

[Slapshot136]

maybe you should challenge Watson to jeopardy then, or beat a real computer at chess?

tell me, how were humans different 20 years ago? I can tell you that since 20 years ago, computers have increased in speed by a factor of 10 or so, can humans today run 10x faster then humans from 20 years ago?

We will be better than robot every time, because we have to have the power to manipulate them.

people can also be manipulated - your point?

 

[Jedimindtrixxx]

Just see the overall quality of a person and a robot, nowadays. Think of it and post here in 20 years from now. I bet nothing will be changed at all. We will be better than robot every time, because we have to have the power to manipulate them.

according to moore's law computers will overtake a human in terms of computing in about 10-20 years, and is going to surpass the entire human population at around 2045.

 

[Siretu]

You will never reach the perfect witch is us, so comparing us with "them" is such a nonsense.


It's not clever as it has no human brain capabilities. That's all

The fact that you see us as perfect beings just reinforces my additional theory that you cant accept that machines will become smarter than humans because you think humans are some special magic being that is impossible to recreate.

Also, your question was about jumping 4 meters, not about human brain capabilities. That specific argument was about robot's abilities, not intelligence.

Also, related picture: http://tinyurl.com/43gp5x8

 

[Dan]

I would like Firecat and Noobimbapro to be removed from this thread to be completely honest, since they cannot even spell correctly. It is quite annoying. Aren't there moderators for this? *hint hint* Front page news guys! Shouldn't be trolls here.

There is already a field of research in artificial intelligence called machine learning. This is where the AI learns(sometimes from a human and sometimes by itself). Are you claiming this is hard-coded? Do you know there's artificial intelligence that can learn how to play civilization just by reading the manual and UNDERSTANDING it. Nothing was hard-coded from the beginning. The AI knew nothing about cities and rivers and such.

The fact of the matter is that the program used was not a generic/all purpose learning algorithm. The program was made specifically for learning how to play a game. Keeping that in mind, everything I said is still true. It was hard coded to learn a specific thing through mimicry, repetition, and by learning rules. Computers are great at learning rules! They have trouble distinguishing between good rules and bad rules, when to bend rules, emotional responses to rules, etc. They also do not have desires and thus cannot tell you that they would not like to play civilization IV right now because there is a hot girl in the room... A robot could be programmed to learn to play poker, it could even learn patterns about how you play but it could not actually bluff or call your bluffs without being programmed about what a bluff is (and different people bluff differently). To do so would be imperfect in a way, since you expect a computer to be consistant.

Most of the arguments in this thread are very weak and bad ones in both directions.

I can write a program that says "I like cupcakes" but it does not mean that the computer program likes cupcakes, only that it was told to say that. I could then make the computer program randomly choose a noun and say "I like ___" but again, it did not think about things that it liked and give you an emotional answer. It might seem as if it did, but if you look at the hard-code you will see what process actually took place. I can teach a computer to learn how to play games given a series of algorithms to use to analyze what happens during a game and to mimic things that it sees happen and build rules for itself in order to improve (which is easy to tell in an rts or turn based game because you have clear answers to what winning and what losing is), but the same program can not be used to learn how to play music.

On the other side of this argument, there are clear misconceptions floating around and even weaker arguments about what computers cannot be made to do. A program can be made to do most of the things that noobimbapro thinks are impossible. A machine can also be made--even more easily--to be physically superior to a human. Also, calm down on the "taking over the world" thing for now. It is an impossible circumstance at the current moment, and therefore, is nothing to even worry about.

One thing that an algorithm could never do is to troll TH forums as well as some people do. XD

 

[FireCat]

Don't be Such a spelling Nazi. @Dan

Well, Siretu
your curiosity will just have to wait a little bit longer!

 

[Siretu]

The fact of the matter is that the program used was not a generic/all purpose learning algorithm. The program was made specifically for learning how to play a game. Keeping that in mind, everything I said is still true.

Did you mean to say "Keeping that in mind, everything YOU said is still true." because otherwise I don't really understand it.

Still, I never said that the program used a generic learning algorithm. Not to say it's not possible.

@FireCat:

It's not really being a grammar nazi. Being a grammar nazi is when you complain about a single word being misspelled or so. In your case it's more like you take your entire post before posting it and scramble the words, add new ones at random locations and remove some of the words.

 

[FireCat]

It's not really being a grammar nazi. Being a grammar nazi is when you complain about a single word being misspelled or so

I know that! And It's my way to write! Just Accept It! Right?

Btw: It's Just a machine with a coded chip and nothing else. Nuff said!

 

[Dan]

Did you mean to say "Keeping that in mind, everything YOU said is still true." because otherwise I don't really understand it.
Still, I never said that the program used a generic learning algorithm. Not to say it's not possible.

No I meant that it was still "hard-coded." You were asserting that I was incorrect because the program did learn how to play Civ, but it did not truely learn. It only analyzed the game (in specific ways that were predetermined) enough to make rules and then play it. It was, in fact, hard coded to do such a thing. Though it may seem like black magic that the program could, after a while, play civilization better than you(even though you beat it at first), one could look at what is under the hood and understand how it came to the conclusions that it did. It takes a smart programmer to tell something HOW to learn, and the program cn then only learn in the way that it was taught to learn. A program cannot learn how to learn. It was programmed to do very specific things and once enough data was collected, to essentially become more efficient at playing than human counterparts.

Also:

Btw: It's Just a machine with a coded chip and nothing else. Nuff said!

clearly a troll post. "SO IN CONCLUSION I'M RIGHT" lol.

 

[FireCat]

^ No! Not at all There's Just no point say something else anymore.
Blame it on yourself. <3

 

[Siretu]

No I meant that it was still "hard-coded." You were asserting that I was incorrect because the program did learn how to play Civ, but it did not truely learn. It only analyzed the game (in specific ways that were predetermined) enough to make rules and then play it. It was, in fact, hard coded to do such a thing. Though it may seem like black magic that the program could, after a while, play civilization better than you(even though you beat it at first), one could look at what is under the hood and understand how it came to the conclusions that it did. It takes a smart programmer to tell something HOW to learn, and the program cn then only learn in the way that it was taught to learn. A program cannot learn how to learn. It was programmed to do very specific things and once enough data was collected, to essentially become more efficient at playing than human counterparts.

Yes, I am aware that you can "look under the hood" and understand why it did what it did. Does this mean that it was hard-coded? The same thing applies to the human. With enough knowledge you could look under the hood of the human brain and understand why you did what you did. It's just electrical signals between the synapses.

 

[YourFace]

^ No! Not at all There's Just no point say something else anymore.
Blame it on yourself. <3

Trolled Again

In any case, this is a good second step towards making an advanced algorithm for making self growth in robots.
Maybe in the future we can have itouches, desktops, cars, etc. Use this algorithm for self-improvement.

 

[Jedimindtrixxx]

Yes, I am aware that you can "look under the hood" and understand why it did what it did. Does this mean that it was hard-coded? The same thing applies to the human. With enough knowledge you could look under the hood of the human brain and understand why you did what you did. It's just electrical signals between the synapses.

This is actually true. There was a video put up in the video section title, and when they asked someone to pick left or right, they were able to calculate what the person was going to choose 5 seconds before they even knew themselves what they were going to choose.

 

[NoobImbaPro]

maybe you should challenge Watson to jeopardy then, or beat a real computer at chess?

Oh my god I quit. You guys just don't get the idea.
They are best in one thing, not at all things. How the heck can I say it more simple?
They will never reach us, until they become like us.
The 0-1 technology isn't capable of mimicking human brain, that's all folks.

 

[Jedimindtrixxx]

The 0-1 technology isn't capable of mimicking human brain, that's all folks.

source?

 

[Narks]

@FireCat:

It's not really being a grammar nazi. Being a grammar nazi is when you complain about a single word being misspelled or so. In your case it's more like you take your entire post before posting it and scramble the words, add new ones at random locations and remove some of the words.

That sounds like the instructions for the perfect troll post generator...

 

[D.V.D]

They Just can't say it does mimic a human brain, because it doesn't at all. A machine is a machine not a living thing
So you can't really compare or make a chip or whatever and claim is a human brain in a computer or whatever. That's all

I actually would have to disagree with you. Before you stated that a computer would have to be given algorithms and precoded data to be able to run but a brain does exactly the same. It is premade with all of the possible feelings and reactions you can have, it is precoded in ways that it can understand things for example learning whats good and bad based on feelings or pain. To prove that, your brain is pretty much created with all of its structures in place, its not like you start with a big blob of cells everywhere that later shift around to form your brain. Your brain is precoded with all of the structures that serve their purposes.

Your brain also uses "algorithms" to understand and learn things. Lets say you have a variable for all your feelings and a intensity level to all of them. You touch something and your nerves tell the brain that it is causing damage to your cells aka pain. Through the way the object looks and feels (if its hot or cold or whatever), your brain stores that info and uses it to understand that that object is bad for you. This is obviously way simpler than it actually is but in the end your brain pretty much goes through certain steps upon all possible reactions. The only reason things like these aren't coded is because computers now don't work anything like the brain. Although this chip does seem to resemble the functionality of a neuron, it still uses electricity as a means of transferring info. Your brain uses signals which are much more complex and different cells in the brain act differently than others based on the given signal.

To say your brain is something that a computer can never surpass is kinda false and to say that our computers are far from ever getting there is true and not true. Like written before computers are much more specialized were as our brain is made to function under every circumstance possible to us. We might not be great at math but that doesn't mean people aren't good at it. We invented calculus and all sorts of maths. There are even people who are said to be "human calculators" due to their incredible ability of doing math regardless of how high the numbers are.

To say you can't mimic the brain just cause is untrue and can be eventually done.

 

[Nigerianrulz]

Oh my god I quit. You guys just don't get the idea.
They are best in one thing, not at all things. How the heck can I say it more simple?
They will never reach us, until they become like us.
The 0-1 technology isn't capable of mimicking human brain, that's all folks.

i really think you havnt been in touch with technology in like the past decades... our computers can arguably do more than us.
i have a feeling that you are afraid of what technology is capable of otherwise theres no other logical reasons other than trolling.
Just curious how old are you?

 

[NoobImbaPro]

18

I am not afraid what technology can do. I am afraid the ones who make technology know what to do.

Nuclear Power: Yeah a very nice power source, as with small capacities of uranium we can product electricity for the whole world.
-----> Bombs: We found nuclear power, so let's make some bombs to terrorize the ones who want to be richer.

Isn't it very possible to make something harmful with this, starting to make computer like us?

Science and technology must find the right way of their progress for not involving/fusing human with that stuff.
Our minds are not mature enough to handle these parts of technology, like human cloning. So let them be there until we are fully informed about the pros and cons and how to overcome the cons of every technology find.

And don't continue to say that I am trolling, if you can't answer me just don't post. When someone writes something you have to understand what he says/means and then post or if you don't understand, post him your question.

@Jedimindtrixxx
Does your brain work with 0-1 system?
Of course not, it has another highly advanced system. Till we find it

 

[camelCase]

@NoobImbaPro
Err, I would say my mind kinda' works with binary numbers.
An electrical signal running through a neuron is a 1 and the absence of electrical signal is zero.

Anyways, there are these.. virtual neural networks (Hence my "NNs ftw!" post before everything became serious) called perceptrons and multi-layered perceptrons.
They behave a lot like a human brain with a certain amount of conditioning.

These perceptrons know nothing at first, you then teach them and they learn to get the correct results.
They can even have 'offspring' who can have the exact properties as its parents or be mutated to vary a little (genetic algorithms).

These mutated offspring would have certain things hard coded into them just like how we humans have certain things hard coded into us.
Like how we understand the concept of two objects being more than one.

If you say that the brain is not a binary system but instead works with variables that have more than one value, we already emulate that with machines.
It's called "Fuzzy logic".

I believe that we can make a truly intelligent being in the future.
Whether we should or not is not the issue because as humans, we do shit (right or wrong) because we can.
We will try just to show the world our abilities (We are human, after all).

And machines are already better than us in many areas.
Rules-systems have helped machines prove a few mathematical theorems again and even find new proofs.
(I can't remember which ones =P)
DeepBlue plays a mean game of chess (Though, to be honest, I think it's just extremely efficient SQL and not actual AI xD)
Fuzzy Logic in washing machines help them wash more efficiently than you do.
Neural Networks are used to learn to recognize objects in 3D space after a certain amount of exposure.
And the list goes on.

Yes, they're specialized (for now) but it does show that we have the many parts right now, we just have to assemble them correctly.
Lol, starting to sound like an OOP discussion xD

I'm not afraid of what having a more intelligent being would mean for us humans because it'd be cool to have a personal tutor for every subject I could dream of =P
Or a rival who is always just one step above me.
Or an intelligent companion to speak to (Not all humans are intelligent =P)

 

[Varine]

18

I am not afraid what technology can do. I am afraid the ones who make technology know what to do.

Nuclear Power: Yeah a very nice power source, as with small capacities of uranium we can product electricity for the whole world.
-----> Bombs: We found nuclear power, so let's make some bombs to terrorize the ones who want to be richer.

Isn't it very possible to make something harmful with this, starting to make computer like us?

Science and technology must find the right way of their progress for not involving/fusing human with that stuff.
Our minds are not mature enough to handle these parts of technology, like human cloning. So let them be there until we are fully informed about the pros and cons and how to overcome the cons of every technology find.

And don't continue to say that I am trolling, if you can't answer me just don't post. When someone writes something you have to understand what he says/means and then post or if you don't understand, post him your question.

@Jedimindtrixxx
Does your brain work with 0-1 system?
Of course not, it has another highly advanced system. Till we find it

With breeder reactors we have a neigh unlimited supply of material fit for fission.

Apparently you're one of the "Get rid of the weapons!" people who don't understand that no one gives a shit if we get rid of our weapons, no other country will? Or that a reverse arms race is going to be just as dangerous as it was in the Cold War?

It's possible for me to make something harmful out of anything - are we going to avoid advancing technology and bringing us forward as a continually advancing race over the fear that someone will abuse it? YOU'RE mind might not be mature enough - well obviously - however you are in a minority, it seems, of people afraid of the advancement of the future.

What's wrong with human cloning other than it's illegal for some reason? These are all moronic restrictions that will restrain our advancement - I have a belief as to WHY they are illegal, although even I must admit it's a bit of a stretch so I won't say it and pretend I know what I'm talking about like you.