Next Balance Patch

[Accname]

Just a quick info, the next balance patch is going to come out next week and it will favor zerg and toss.
1). Building Time for observers lowered by 10 seconds.
2). Overlord speed slightly increased.
3). Queen ground attack range increased from 3 to 5.

 

[Nigerianrulz]

Queen op :d

 

[Accname]

I dont know, this patch isnt too noteworthy i believe.
The building time for observers decreased by 10 seconds is nice, but not huge. You rarely build more then 2 or 3.
The speed bonus for overlords is very very small, i wonder if you will even notice.

The attack range upgrade however is quite huge, that will make it more easier to defend early hellions for example, or bunker rushes.

 

[Bloodcount]

With the new patch, any zerg who looses to an all in should uninstall the game. The overlord is ridiculously fast for it's price and purpose and the 5 range queen negates any worker scout (quite huge in zvp), bunker rush, hellion harass, reaper harass, zealot/stalker harass. The matchups including zerg are starting to look bad. Zerg is generally an A-move race by desighn and the way things are working out at the moment, you require much more micro to and well... skill than the zerg to win. The sad part is that blizzard said as well that zerg is winning with pure macro up until high on the ladder (which is like mid master from my point of view)


Anyway, we will see how things will unfold, but at the moment it is VERY hard to win versus zerg if you are protoss and nearly impossible if you are terran.

 

[Accname]

What??? Overlord speed is ridiculous?
It was increased by maybe 10%, thats still too slow to run away from a queen off creep. And those things are like the slowest fighting unit in the game.

And the range increase, although it is huge, isnt that much. The attack speed is still slow and the damage is not too good either. And zerg is by far not the a-move race.
Just watch any zerg vs protoss / terran pro level game. If zerg goes a-move they lose with a 100% chance.
Zerg have it very hard to run against force field walls, collosi armies, siege tank positions, etc.
Their units die very very fast to any kind of splash damage, their attack range is meager and surrounding your enemies is the key to victory. Their melee units can block each other if not microed, their roaches have a poor range which you need to micro also, the mutalisks need to constantly back up and go in with their little hitpoints, broodlords die to anything which comes too close.
Come on, dont be ridiculous.

 

[Bloodcount]

25% speed boost. Decent zerg players will have 2 overlords in position and will scout everything. Even though you still need 2 now it doesn't matter on which map it is, the Z will always have them in position. Before you cloud hide some buildings on big maps like tal darim and ohana.


The range increase is HUGE. Now a queen can any worker trying to get from the nat to the main and scout for gas. There is literally no way when a protoss player makes a forge fast expand to scout for all ins after the queens are out now. The queen DPS is big enough to kill helions and reapers, with the new range upgrade you can stop them without a problem. So far 2 terran oppenings are made useless.

Zerg have the best economy and can max out the fastest. They have the most cost effective units in the early-mid game and the best T3 units. The problems which you are refering to are non existant if the player controlling the race has over 20 battle APM. For their cost, the roaches shouldn't have range to begin with. Now there is no way to stop the creep spread from the zerg. 1 queen alone can not only produce creep but protect the tumors as well. With the speed upgrade you can't kite them with stalkers or any sort of non siege range unit. What you are saying about splash is true, however the economy lead which zerg get in the early game (considering the zerg is on the same level as the protoss and terran) is big enough to afford loosing a lot of units.

The marine tank pushes are stopped by numerous ways. The most common one is the 3 hatch 2 base play which is basically drone, after XX drones you pump out units. If the terran doesn't attack you have the units to fend off any attack and deny a third. You get 3rd and 4th at the same time go to t3. If the terran attacks you simply attack from 2 sides, which is one of the most basic moves.

Another way is to simply make carpet banelings or 2 base baneling bombs or a lot of +1+1 lings. Any collosus pushes in pvz come too late with little anti air and mutalisks tear through them or just a massive roach army. You can have 200/200 roaches at the 12 munite mark. 13 if you want burrow and tunneling claws. Forcefields are not the problem. There are very few all ins which actually work vs zerg. Anyway, my point is that the race which has to adapt dictates the game.

 

[Accname]

I was replying to your comment about zerg being an A-Move race, not about balance issues.
And i have seen way too much p v z in pro level games to agree with your views about that match up.
Its very well balanced in my opinion.

And about overlords scouting everything. Just think about the terran scan. Thats instant, doesnt require any kind of preparation (like moving the overlords into positions) doesnt cost any resources (if we dont consider the minerals a mule could potentially harvest) and cannot be stopped by any means unlike overlords which can very well be killed before seing anything.
Overlords also have a building time in combination with their mineral cost, they take larvae and losing the scouts can often bring you into a position where you get supply blocked temporarily, even in pro level games you see it now and then.

Though i agree with your opinion about the reapers, they are basically useless now. But i dont think protoss cannot scout in the game because of queens, queens are not out until the spawning pool is finished, if you are really concerned about early game aggression this will never happen, when the queen is out, the first 6 lings are probably already at your base.

You notive how every patch we begin a balance discussion?

 

[Bloodcount]

>doesnt cost any resources (if we dont consider the minerals a mule could potentially harvest)

We can't consider that since terran has the slowest saturation.

>But i dont think protoss cannot scout in the game because of queens, queens are not out until the spawning pool is finished,

The stronger baneling/roach ling busts mine temporarily gas from 1, often 2 gaisers. They gas is taken after the queens are out. How can you scout that when the queen will kill the probe before it gets in ?

>You notive how every patch we begin a balance discussion?

Yes. Since I was told that I can't ban them, might as well tell the truth about the current balance situation...

 

[Accname]

>doesnt cost any resources (if we dont consider the minerals a mule could potentially harvest)

We can't consider that since terran has the slowest saturation.

Having to sacrifice 2 overlords costs you 200 minerals, two larvae, time to rebuild them (in which you have 16 less supply) and the opponent has the chance to kill them before you get much intel.
That makes up for that.

>But i dont think protoss cannot scout in the game because of queens, queens are not out until the spawning pool is finished,

The stronger baneling/roach ling busts mine temporarily gas from 1, often 2 gaisers. They gas is taken after the queens are out. How can you scout that when the queen will kill the probe before it gets in ?

If the queen is already out and able to deny your scouting the lings will probably also be able to do so.
Also zergs tend to go for a very fast expo, even if they go for an early push since hatcheries increase their larvae they can just as well give it a go at the natural. So your probe is probably going down anyways before you make it into the main.
I really dont think that this buff will make it absolutely impossible for you to scout. This sounds wrong on too many levels. Harder? Yes, impossible? Never.

>You notive how every patch we begin a balance discussion?

Yes. Since I was told that I can't ban them, might as well tell the truth about the current balance situation...

The "truth" huh? I guess rather your opinion.

 

[Bloodcount]

>If the queen is already out and able to deny your scouting the lings will probably also be able to do so

Lings without speed can't kill workers if the player microes.

>So your probe is probably going down anyways before you make it into the main.

No. You are making assumptions I am talking from experience.

>I really dont think that this buff will make it absolutely impossible for you to scout. This sounds wrong on too many levels. Harder? Yes, impossible? Never.

Since worker scout is shut down, and the robo is ready about the 8th minute and most all ins hit around 7:50-8:40 how can you scout ?


Edit: I found a way to scout but it is pretty cost uneffective.

Edit edit: Halucination before warp tech with chronoboost, you can scout with 1 phoenix and second cannon near the forge just to be safe. I am not upset about the queen range change in pvz anymore.

 

[Accname]

Although i am not talking out of my own game experience, i watch pro level games almost daily and i have seen so many pvz games and i take the liberty to say that i know enough of the game to talk about it.

 

[Bloodcount]

I am not saying it as a bad thing. All I am saying is that I thought marine splitting wasn't really hard until I tried it and it took me (quite literally) 20ish lost tvz's due to that before I start to form some sort of skill.


Anyway, I would enjoy a new blizzard map in the next patch. Maybe a Blizz Dota preview ?

 

[Nigerianrulz]

or instead of scouting you could go 2 gate 4 stalker pressure which is pretty much devastating for any zerg to stop which whitra manages to kill 28 lings with 4 stalkers

 

[Accname]

You thought marine splitting isnt hard? Damn it is even hard to split them into 3 groups, not even thinking about what mkp does.

 

[Bloodcount]

Honestly I thought it would be easier than baneling split. Turns out it is harder.

 

[Accname]

Banelings auto-follow the marines since they are on attack move. You only split them into groups and they get their targets.
Marines on the other hand try to approach the banelings instead of running away.