Our 44th President!!!

[Varine]

Actually we'll probably be giving it to government, who will then spend the money for terrorist camps, weapons, and "schools". Or he'll give it to the government when they are just a front to a terrorist organization or with terrorists in control. Honestly it's not going to help at all.

Ummm... okay. I guess he can do that too, although it's a little less like that.

 

[uberfoop]

Actually we'll probably be giving it to government, who will then spend the money for terrorist camps, weapons, and "schools". Or he'll give it to the government when they are just a front to a terrorist organization or with terrorists in control. Honestly it's not going to help at all.

That's exaggerated. When programs (such as a government) receive a surplus, they don't immediately think to dump it all into militant activity. Even fairly radically-behaving political units tend to have other priorities; in addition to the political and military arms of Hezbollah, they also run a sizeable social services network which operates things from news programs to hospitals to, gasp, schools.

The only way the money would even be MOSTLY diverted to terrorist activities would be if you directly handed it all to a unit which puts most of it's resources to combat and terrorist acts; in other words, just about no legitimate political unit in existance.

Of course, it IS always possible that something along the line fumbles and some sneakiness is made and some jerks just go ahead and give all the money to terrorists, but that's highly unlikely when you're organizing for it to be sent to a legitimate political unit as a school fund. It would just be too obvious if trickery was conducted on our end.

 

[Lord_Phoenix]

That's exaggerated. When programs (such as a government) receive a surplus, they don't immediately think to dump it all into militant activity. Even fairly radically-behaving political units tend to have other priorities; in addition to the political and military arms of Hezbollah, they also run a sizeable social services network which operates things from news programs to hospitals to, gasp, schools.

The only way the money would even be MOSTLY diverted to terrorist activities would be if you directly handed it all to a unit which puts most of it's resources to combat and terrorist acts; in other words, just about no legitimate political unit in existance.

Of course, it IS always possible that something along the line fumbles and some sneakiness is made and some jerks just go ahead and give all the money to terrorists, but that's highly unlikely when you're organizing for it to be sent to a legitimate political unit as a school fund. It would just be too obvious if trickery was conducted on our end.

So somehow you know what other governments are doing with their money? Honestly do you think they're going to come out with a huge sign saying "HEY GUY'S WE'RE BUYING WEAPONS COME STOP US"? Honestly think about it, where do terrorists get their funding anyways?

While I am being a bit over the top, I am basically trying to say that you don't know what other governments are doing with their money illegally, so how do you know what their going to do with money given to them.

I don't doubt that much of the money will be used legitimately, but there are chances that it won't be used well at all as well. As I said, any government won't show what can hurt them.

 

[Varine]

Honestly think about it, where do terrorists get their funding anyways?

A lot of them have private funding from wealthy individuals. Al' Qaeda, for instance, has an incredibly large amount of money because Bin Laden comes from a really rich family, and was given a large portion of what I believe is an inheritance. Although his family does probably continue to privately fund the group regardless of what they've stated.

 

[BlowingKush]

Hamburgers.

 

[esb]

@BudSMoke: What? What does rep have to do with post count? And your statistic is wrong

Both have a somewhat reasonable reason to backup their opinions.
Phoenix says that we don't know what they do with ALL of the money the government recieves/has/spends/etc. And that SOME could go to illegal activities, which in my opinion wouldn't surprise me.
Varine says that it doesn't all come from governments, but that terrorists also get funded from private companies, privately and directly.

I'd rather say that terrorists get more money from private companies than government.

 

[BANANAMAN]

Guys can we just wait and see what he does?

If he screws up. Then we can have a legitimate reason to Berate his fail
If he actually makes things better then...I guess he's just what America needed then.

I never liked both candidates. Also the whole world seems to like Obama in general. You guys seen the latest reader's digest? Apparently people like Obama because they didn't want someone like Bush in office anymore. Which Mccain is sorta. But yeah i won't go to saying which is better. Time would tell who really should be american president.

One more thing. You guys know what that guy Nostradamus said about America's first black president? He said something along the lines of a third world war happening if America gets it's first black president.

It may be a wild guess but im still making my underground bunker.

 

[Seb!]

@BudSMoke: What? What does rep have to do with post count? And your statistic is wrong

Both have a somewhat reasonable reason to backup their opinions.
Phoenix says that we don't know what they do with ALL of the money the government recieves/has/spends/etc. And that SOME could go to illegal activities, which in my opinion wouldn't surprise me.
Varine says that it doesn't all come from governments, but that terrorists also get funded from private companies, privately and directly.

I'd rather say that terrorists get more money from private companies than government.

Middle Eastern terrorism is directly and openly funded by profits from oil sales. If they don't run them directly, the largest oil families in Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, and Afghanistan all have links to terrorist organizations. Another large source is American support for past wars against countries like Russia.

 

[DM Cross]

Guys can we just wait and see what he does?

If he screws up. Then we can have a legitimate reason to Berate his fail
If he actually makes things better then...I guess he's just what America needed then.

So far, this is the smartest thing anyone has said in this entire forum, regarding the election.

 

[Zakyath]

It's more fun to discuss what you think's going to happen than wait and see...

 

[esb]

Wait and see is all we can do though. For better or for worse, we can't start a revolt and over throw the government, just wait and see...

 

[WastedSavior]

@BudSMoke: What? What does rep have to do with post count? And your statistic is wrong

If you haven't noticed a pattern I'll point it out for you.

Rep is given for intelligent, helpful and mature posts.

If your not making intelligent, helpful or mature posts, then you are not receiving rep. Thus your post count will be much higher then your rep count.

In addition, if you are making posts that have the intent of belittling, insulting, or encouraging bad behavior on these forums, you are going to receive -rep.

People with rep will tell you it means nothing, people without rep will tell you it means everything. But it does serve a purpose. It reinforces the ideals of this forum, and what is socially acceptable. Positive rep will encourage you to do more of what made you deserve the rep, and -rep will encourage you to do less of what made you lose it.

Sadly Varine has quite the ego, and doesn't take the hint. It's not too often that i give -rep, but varine has warranted quite a bit of it.

Anyways, To address a point that i feel is worthy of discussion (and to get back on topic)

Obama pulling out of Iraq

There was a few points made, and I'll try to address all of them


Oil prices - Im going to address this one by being lazy and referencing you to another website.
http://www.theoildrum.com/node/4672

Terrorists will strike because pulling out is a sign of weakness -
There really isn't an answer for this, its pure speculation on what will happen. The best way is to look at both situations and chose the lesser of two evils.

If we pull out of iraq - Terrorist organizations will be lead to believe that we are at a moment of weakness, and that we no longer possess the power to retaliate, or the will too.

If we stay in iraq - I assume having a large oppressive military force making movement through the middle east is quite threatening, giving birth to new terrorist intent.

 

[Seb!]

Terrorism is a force that cannot be stopped at its roots. You can prevent its results, but Radical Islam so entrenches people in a certain belief that they are simply beyond reason.

@Wasted, I don't think that makes much sense. It seems like that would be something you could guess if you really didn't know much about the situation, but its more complicated than that.

First of all, most terrorism in Iraq (which is a very small, and inconsequential amount of casualties, relatively) is directed against different branches of Islam. Even less is directed towards foreign forces, like American installments.

You act like its a battle between the "terrorists" and "Americans". It's not. A lot of hatred toward America is really just anger redirected from Israel. Sunni and Shia Islam, when not persecuting one another, focus most of their time on persecuting "those god d*m Jews" for occupying the Holy Land.

America supports Israel economically and militarily, and that is why it is the target of a certain amount of attacks. America now occupies Iraq for a very different set of reasons that are based mostly on unfounded and now debunked "intelligence". Hussein was supposed to have been attempting to enrich Uranium. This would have violated international law, which the USA sought to enforce.

 

[WastedSavior]

Your right, i apologize, i was merely discussing what had already been said.

Thanks you for the correction :thup:

 

[Lord_Phoenix]

I have a question to all you peoples out there; if we pull out of Iraq, would Obama wanting/planning to invade another country make him a hippocrit?

Also, how would we reinforce international polocies if we can't use military force?

 

[Varine]

One more thing. You guys know what that guy Nostradamus said about America's first black president? He said something along the lines of a third world war happening if America gets it's first black president.

I always found Obama to be similar to Nostradomus. Nostradomus made a lot of prediction, most of which are probably false, and then there are some that can be interpreted to relate to real events. I just found it similar that Obama keeps saying something different until he gets it right, which is probably why he doesn't comment on things for importance for several days so that he can 'better evaluate' the issue.

 

[uberfoop]

I have a question to all you peoples out there; if we pull out of Iraq, would Obama wanting/planning to invade another country make him a hippocrit?

Also, how would we reinforce international polocies if we can't use military force?

Obama is not against the use of military force.

I don't get why people keep acting like he is.


Evidently, pulling out of unnecesary conflicts and as such possibly reduce defence spending to the point where we don't spend more money on our military than the rest of the world COMBINED does on theirs makes a man a pacifist.

 

[Varine]

Evidently, pulling out of unnecesary conflicts and as such possibly reduce defence spending to the point where we don't spend more money on our military than the rest of the world COMBINED does on theirs makes a man a pacifist.

And that excessive spending is probably why America is hardly ever fucked with or fought fairly.

 

[uberfoop]

And that excessive spending is probably why America is hardly ever fucked with or fought fairly.

Because it's not like any other nation out there has good national security, or anything like that. Only the USA, which spends 11 times as much as the next runner up, is secure. Everyone else gets attacked constantly, and terrorists ravage their streets.

 

[BANANAMAN]

I guess let the speculations run wild then.

Im guessing he would do something outrageous like Dancing the macarena in public. Or turn into a ninja. Yeah what about that eh? A black Ninja president!!