Patch 1.4.0 announced in PTR

GFreak45

I didnt slap you, i high 5'd your face.
ravens? or are they not available out of the campaign? i usually play zerg or protoss, and if i do play tarran i just spam marines... cuz they pwn and i make an army super fast :p
 

GFreak45

I didnt slap you, i high 5'd your face.
IM GETTING US BACK ON TOPIC... ahem cough cough... sorry for the all caps :p

Getting, 10 vikings to deal with one overseer is not cost effective, however there is a certain build used in tvt and tvz where the terran is on 2 base with 3 CC's and goes viking cloacked banshee, overseers are the only mobile detection and I assume that in some scenarios the only cost effective thing against this build is.... infestors.
like i said above, dont ravens also detect invis? or is that only on campaign? i dont play terran much non campaign and even then i marine spam ftw just to mess around
 

Sevion

The DIY Ninja
Overseers are the only mobile detection for Zerg (not counting Fungal Growth).

Ravens are the only mobile detection for Terran (not counting scans).
 

Siretu

Starcraft 2 Editor Moderator
Staff member
I think what Bloodcount was trying to say was that Overseers are the only mobile detection that zerg has, not the only mobile detection in the game.
 

Nigerianrulz

suga suga how'd you get so fly?
ever since the nerf for neutral parasite i have no being able to use it effectively anymore as its just risking too much for your infestors to go ahead of your army to grab the units at the back. I still dont understand why its nerfed when both terran and toss have an anti caster units so effectively deal with infestors wheres a zerg must micro his infestors inorder to keep them alive let alone using any abilities. Not to mention how vulnerable and useless they are when their energy runs out.
 

Sevion

The DIY Ninja
Well, to be completely honest, I've never used Neural Parasite before the patch. I can't imagine anyone to actually tell me any occasion it be useful to have anymore.

I hardly ever got Neural Parasite upgraded. I never used it.

To put it another way, if I had a 5% chance of using NP, I now have a 0% chance.
 

Accname

2D-Graphics enthusiast
ever since the nerf for neutral parasite i have no being able to use it effectively anymore as its just risking too much for your infestors to go ahead of your army to grab the units at the back. I still dont understand why its nerfed when both terran and toss have an anti caster units so effectively deal with infestors wheres a zerg must micro his infestors inorder to keep them alive let alone using any abilities. Not to mention how vulnerable and useless they are when their energy runs out.
The difference between the casting units are quite high.
It is true, that zerg is less good in dealing with enemy caster units, terran can drop emp's and protoss can feedback your infestors, but, you have to remember that fungal growth is by far the most powerful AoE spell of them.
EMP can only really "harm" protoss units, and even then it hardly deals more then 50% of their hitpoints. The hunter seeker missle needs to be upgraded first, is very expensive and might miss many targets if they are microed properly, psi-storm is instant but deals damage over time and most of it can be avoided as well if the enemy starts running early enough.
Fungal, however, is instant, stops its targets from moving, (maybe from attacking too if those are not able to reach their enemies now) and deals high damage over a short period of time. If you drop your fungals fast enough the EMP's / Feedbacks cannot hit you.

The neural parasite is still useful as well. Of course, it is way more dangerous to try to np a collosus since their upgraded attack range is 13, almost twice as much as the np range is now. But you can still np archons which are (almost) melee units, you can np thors which have less attack range as well and are rarely massed, you can np carriers or motherships (if you ever see them in battle) or battle cruisers.
And if you manage to sandwhich your enemy with your army you still have a good chance to np collosus too, you just need to use your other units as a buffer. In the lower leagues the enemies APM usually isnt high enough to controll all collosus perfectly and move them out of your range or focus fire your infestors.
 

Siretu

Starcraft 2 Editor Moderator
Staff member
For the record, the colossus range with the upgrade is 9, not 13. Siege tanks however have 13 range. It's still very hard to NP them though.

Almost any unit will take at least half of the damage if you psi storm on top of them. I think speedlings would be excluded due to their speed but they will die anyway so it doesn't matter.

Also, that is if we assume perfect reactions where the opponent moves as soon as the psi storm lands.

When it comes to NP, I agree with Sevion. I very rarely used them before but now I probably never will. It's just too big of an investment for such a big risk.
 

Accname

2D-Graphics enthusiast
For the record, the colossus range with the upgrade is 9, not 13. Siege tanks however have 13 range. It's still very hard to NP them though.

Almost any unit will take at least half of the damage if you psi storm on top of them. I think speedlings would be excluded due to their speed but they will die anyway so it doesn't matter.

Also, that is if we assume perfect reactions where the opponent moves as soon as the psi storm lands.

When it comes to NP, I agree with Sevion. I very rarely used them before but now I probably never will. It's just too big of an investment for such a big risk.
Oh yes, it really is 9, i dont know how i mixed that up with siege tanks.
But the psi-storm damage is easily dodged by marines / marauders on stim packs, or even speed roaches. it isnt all that hard to just move your entire army a little bit back.
You can at least avoid 25% up to 50% of the damage this way, even in lower leagues this is possible.
 

Bloodcount

Starcraft II Moderator
Staff member
ever since the nerf for neutral parasite i have no being able to use it effectively anymore as its just risking too much for your infestors to go ahead of your army to grab the units at the back. I still dont understand why its nerfed when both terran and toss have an anti caster units so effectively deal with infestors wheres a zerg must micro his infestors inorder to keep them alive let alone using any abilities. Not to mention how vulnerable and useless they are when their energy runs out.
This is true. To be honest I think that the neural parasite is useless against collosi the most. Today TLO lost a game to imbaLovely, because in the final battle the zerg used neural parasite. The game was pretty long and both players were taking sevear hits and honestly I can't tell without looking at the replay who was ahead in that battle, but after the first shot of the siege line (TLO was going mech) the thors and some tanks got neuraled which really helped in the battle. The question is, is it really more cost effective to research neural and cast it AND risk loosing the infestor by doing that or is it better to just summon a bunch of infested terrans.


Something I have noticed in the past few weeks is that even fungal is neglected over the infested terran. They are quite good, they help more than fungal in non armor based all ins, because they can be summond behind the enemy lines, makingthe retreat impossible.

Actually a really good way to deal with a bio mid game push is to have a few spines, try to surround with the lings and drop the infested terrans behind that army. that way they are stuck between spines and infested marines.*


*Neglecting fungal due to the low health of the marines is stupid, but ofthen when they are spread out well, it is hard to say which choice is better.
 

Miz

Administrator
I have cleaned up a lot of this thread. While an original version was archived, I did deleted and edit out a lot of unacceptable behavior and off topic conversation. Please keep in mind that regardless of how intense a debates gets that we are all here to help one another get better at the game.

Mistakes were made by both sides in this conversation, and several community standards were violated such as insulting a moderator and other staff authority. Reasons could be given for this, but I would like to tell all parties involved that the Staff is looking at this thread and several others.

We enjoy the fact you guys love to discuss balance so passionately but we must also warn you that if conversations continue as they have we will have no choice but to restrict or limit them.

So keep it civil guys, and just remember that the Staff (including myself) are watching.
 

GFreak45

I didnt slap you, i high 5'd your face.
do infestors normally get movement while burrowed or is that only in the challenges? because i could see them being huge in fights if they could go behind the opponents army and neural say... 4 or 5 thors, propper microing would make that very possible, especially with their huge range
 

Cornface

Avoid, if at all possible.
do infestors normally get movement while burrowed or is that only in the challenges? because i could see them being huge in fights if they could go behind the opponents army and neural say... 4 or 5 thors, propper microing would make that very possible, especially with their huge range
Yes, Infestors and Roaches (allthough roaches need an upgrade) can move while burrowed. And I think the problem with that idea is mainly that the infestors will be completely unguarded and an very easy prey for the tanks or maybe some stimmed marines.
 

GFreak45

I didnt slap you, i high 5'd your face.
that is unless you keep burrowed roaches in front of them, dont forget, the range on it is still rivaling siege mode tanks
 

Siretu

Starcraft 2 Editor Moderator
Staff member
Sieged tanks have a range of 13, neural parasite has a range of 7. I don't see how keeping burrowed roaches would protect them though.

It could potentially work since terran don't usually have permanent detection but instead focus on scans mostly.
 

GFreak45

I didnt slap you, i high 5'd your face.
thats primarily what i meant, because tarran usually have fewer but larger units which in my experience, beats out spamming smaller units, just simply due to the diffusal of damage output over the fight, where as there is less diffusal with larger units
 

Accname

2D-Graphics enthusiast
terrans usually have about 10000 marines running around, thats not what i call a "larger" unit.
 

GFreak45

I didnt slap you, i high 5'd your face.
only because its an easy build, the best terrans iv seen are capable of rushing thors/battleships by 5-10 mins
 

GFreak45

I didnt slap you, i high 5'd your face.
Lies!!! With 0 scvs you could still only have up to 300 marines!!!

does anyone know what is really in the stimpack? because as far as i can tell it gives them strength, speed, and hurts them, thats some pcp
 
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