Post a Replay - Receive some feedback! [ZERG]

BANANAMAN

Resident Star Battle Expert.
Reaction score
150
Yeah that's roughly the same advice my friend gave me afterward. I guess i should work on those more.

:rolleyes:

He also asked why I played like a bronze player that game when i usually play like a lowbie silver. :)
 

Bloodcount

Starcraft II Moderator
Reaction score
297
Take a tip from me: I have had draws with 2200+ diamonds and I have almost lost to a bronze league player.

It is not the league, it is the understanding of the game ;p

Overall, your biggest mistake was the lack of speed. Whenever the merging of the reals takes place we can play some games :pp


Also, I don't recal that you spreaded the creep at all ^_^
 

BANANAMAN

Resident Star Battle Expert.
Reaction score
150
Yeah i know but the point is that i've played horribly like a bronze in that game vs a diamond player so yeah.Another thing though,I've been learning a couple of tricks lately mainly in ZvZ and I have also been starting to spread creep lately.I think I'm getting the hang of adding the "spread creep" action in my list of standard actions to do as zerg.My strategies can be somewhat simplified in C++ if else statements. :)


Also if anyone. ANYONE here ever finds the hardcounter to 3 gate fast expand pressure as Zerg i will as they say.

"Suck the cock" and swallow.
 

Bloodcount

Starcraft II Moderator
Reaction score
297
He wants to preasure u with 3 gateways ? Omg the tard.

First of all I should point out that Imho most of the protoss created builds are bullshit (Forge 1 gate FE, fast carriers, fast Dt's)

it is simple. In order to support 3 gateways + an expansion you must CUT PROBE PRODUCTION TO A MINIMUM.

Oh yes. There are a few possibilities: His macro will overall suck for the entire game so you just have to hang in there.

He will stop producing units at one point. He MUST. else he can afford too little probes to saturate both his expansion AND main properly.

So, what you do it:

If he is too offencive get spines. 3 is a good number. Switch to defensive zerg (I will make a thread about early game zerg and some general zerg tips after I consult with a few pros, I don't want to give shit information) and start producing roaches.

Rush to lair. Like I said he won't have neither that much units, nor that much probes. Make an overseer and infiltrate his base. Make a nydus worm, oh yes. Swarm one side with speedlings. Attack front with roaches. (or hydras)

Actually zerg are quite good at multi attacking- sure terrans have drops, but that is just one over used way. As zerg u have worms, drops, MUtalisks, burrowed attacks (do use infestors)

So basically, the same rule applies to all races: Unless you are confident in your win, by all means, abuse the fact taht he is on two base. He can't defend 2 things at the same time. Just make sure that you can send enough units at both fronts. Guess what ? Zerg are famous for large numbers of units.

The 4 gate is somethin else though. Nothing of the above applies to it. (exept getting some roaches)
 

BANANAMAN

Resident Star Battle Expert.
Reaction score
150
Actually it's more of 3 gate pressure,4 gate fast expand with force field abuse
 

Bloodcount

Starcraft II Moderator
Reaction score
297
I see... in that case no idea. Apparently something out of the ordinary must be done. Let's practice against it. Bloodcount 112
 

BANANAMAN

Resident Star Battle Expert.
Reaction score
150
Several things i found out about this build.

This is anti Roach.
This is not an all in build
Speedlings are a good start in countering this
Lots of spine crawlers are needed at your natural to fend off the gateway units.
Fucking proxy warpin.
 

Bloodcount

Starcraft II Moderator
Reaction score
297
Why exactly is it anti-roach ?

And, ofcourse it is not all in. when u have more then 20 probes it ain't all in :p
 

Sevion

The DIY Ninja
Reaction score
413
I would guess Anti-Roach would be Stalkers?

Why don't you use a handful of speedlings + 3 or 4 spine crawlers and rush Muta, transfer to Hydra/Infestor/Bling build?

(As you can see from my replay, I'm not gosu, but just my 2 cents, would love to know anything that's wrong with my trains of thought!)
 

Bloodcount

Starcraft II Moderator
Reaction score
297
Actually few roaches< few stalkers. BUT
A lot of stalkers < a lot of roaches.

Sev, your build is pretty decent but in an ideal world you won't need roaches or blings in T1.

Most of the times when they don't do a bunker rush all in against me both terran and tosses mass an army and make a timing attack, right about when I have lair, and I am still far away form mutas, strong units

I'd recommend having speedlings + blings or roaches + speedlings in T1.
 

BANANAMAN

Resident Star Battle Expert.
Reaction score
150
Actually that build's strong point is that the Protoss has this timing window to perfectly exploit when you're Roach warren is up and running if you're going with a roach based counter to this build.You can't get roaches before he gets his stalkers without going all in and suffering a major economic disadvantage.

The closest i've come so far hard countering 3 gate pressure,4 gate fast expand with force field abuse is the 6 spine/Mass speedlings transition into Lair tech.The purpose of the speedlings is to make the protoss waste energy on FF's so that when you finally engage them head on they would lack energy to ff which would mess up your Zergling's surround for the stalkers.The Toss won't even need Zealots to deal with the speedlings if he uses the FF's right.
 

Sevion

The DIY Ninja
Reaction score
413
What if you go spines/Mass speedlings with a handful of banelings to hammer and anvil the Toss army?
 

BANANAMAN

Resident Star Battle Expert.
Reaction score
150
You won't even have time to get Banelings by the time his army arrives at your nat and start hammering it.The Build is all about exploiting the timing window before Zerg gets enough Zerglings/Banelings/etc. to counter this force.
 

Sevion

The DIY Ninja
Reaction score
413
Then I would assume the best you could do is sacrifice as much economy as you possibly can without going all-in to get enough speedlings and spines :-/ But what do you transition into after that...
 

Viikuna

No Marlo no game.
Reaction score
265
Lings and spines is probably best for your economy.

Spines are pretty powerfull and only cost one larva which is huge for your economy. Queens can heal them. They dont even become useless later, because you can move them to defend your other expansions.

Lings need to get surround to be able to work efficiently.
The key is to harras that enemy army and try to make enemy waste his forcefields, so when he goes in to kill your spines you can get the surround with your lings.

Also faking attacks and trying to by time in anyway possible is what ou should do. You should have better economy than your enemy, because of 2 base drone spam in early game, so the longer he delays the attack the more units your can get out to defeat him.

After that you just apply some pressure by running your lings near his base and expansion, trying to find holes in his defence. Then you go for more expanding and start preparing some kind of muta harras/roach drop, baneling suprise or whatever.

Zerg is strongest in lategame when you got loads of upgrades and all tech choises and good economy. You just gotta survive all terran and protoss harras and timing push options, the moments when they are strong.
 
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