Other Rabbits vs Sheep - Winterspring Wargames

[13lade619]

I'm impressed!

one of the best high quality maps i've seen.
'gratz to you and your team.

 

[Baltazhar]

Thanks again for the feedback - Not only because it's mainly positive

@Ivach: Thanks a lot for the compliment. I know you should play nicely, but when we set sails with the first version of WsW, we hoped to beat the original Rabbits vs Sheep. I am not sure we have gotten there yet, but I feel we are on the way.
As said earlier we are trying to outphase some of the more boring heroes' abilties. Those generic that comes with Wc3, are just too boring. We hope to remake the rest of the old abilities within the next few updates.
I like playing against the bot too, however sad that is. But it gives an okay idea of how a real 1v1 would be.

@Viikuna: The serpentwards spawned by Shadow Hunter doesn't get orders from triggers, so I never thought of the possibility that they could mess things up. I haven't experienced any 'bug-ups' with orders yet, but I will keep an eye out. We might have to reduced the amount of wards generated by Shadow Hunter's ultimate a bit.

@13lade619: Thank you, we are glad you like it.
On that note, it's pretty indecent of me not to mention my team... Brb, updating the first topic

 

[AoW_Hun7312]

Nice to see someone's working on a RvS-type map and turning it into a genre. :thup:

I might get around to testing it later.

 

[Viikuna]

Yea, but generally it worked pretty well. There wasnt any really bad lagg issues or anything expect that one round when I was playing that serpent ward guy. ( I just played that newest RvS ( the one by catecaster ) and it lagged like hell lols. )

Anyways, I will definetly play this again someday. Nice work ey.

 

[Zack1996]

Random question: Why are some heroes classified as "Complex"? Do they have both PvP and PvE nature?
Also, the Black Priest Guy's PvP skill is pretty useless. 30 damage a second is... negligible.

 

[Baltazhar]

Wonderful!

@AoW_Hun7312: I'm not sure we have succeeded it as a genre yet, but we are giving it our best try. I think, that before it's really a genre like AoS or Arena, there has a to 3+ different mapmakers releasing their own version.
That ofcourse, is out of our hands, unless we spent a couple of days on releasing 2 really crappy versions with peasants fighting Tree of Life as creeps or getting chased by pink Wendigo's

@Viikuna: Great to get some feedback on the latest RvS map. We have had, and still have to some extension, problems with lag. In in earlier versions of RvS there was no lag (for me atleast), so we couldn't figure out why we had.
The Warcraft 3 graphics engine is only built to handle ~100.000 polys at any given moment, as far as I know. With us using Gnolls and Kobolds, which lie at ~1000 poly's instead of the Rabbits and Sheep that is at ~400, makes a big difference in the lag issues.
This is the reason we made the Graphic mode, where people with slower computers, can turn it down a notch to avoid lag.
I am glad that you feel like playing again, that's what we want to hear! <3

@Zack1996: We were unsure as how to label the heroes. Should it be generic taverns like DotA, or should we try to sort them in some way?
We chose to sort them into these groups:
Complex: All heroes that uses Focus Power.
PvP: Heroes that have PvP abilties, and does not use Focus Power.
Support: Heroes with healing/supporting abilties, that does not use PvP or Focus Power.
PvE: All the rest, that doesn't have any Focus Power, PvP or special supporting abilties.

We have a generel idea about how much damage abilities should do. PvE usually lies around 120-150 at level 3, depending on the type of the spell (damage over time, extra effects as slow, stun etc.).
PvP abilties lie around 150 damage as an instant, and damage over time has a bit higher total damage.
The spell you are referring to, Curse of Hellfire, deals 10/20/30 damage pr second over 10 seconds. This totals 300 damage, which I believe is a fitting amount. Perhaps the duration is too high? Do you think it would improve if it was 20/40/60 damage pr second over 5 seconds, thus decreasing the duration, but not the damage?

 

[Zack1996]

That sounds good

And thanks for the explanation! The current labelling is fine

 

[Baltazhar]

Any time mate - If there is something you wanna know, I'll gladly answer it.

You see, I have this plan. If I answer all your questions, some day you will love me so much that you will buy me a new car. And I could honestly use one right about now... So ask away!

 

[13lade619]

i think the beastmaster is imba with his summons..
or maybe i just set the bot difficulty on normal.

 

[Tru_Power22]

The description for scarabs (with the nest queen) is broken FYI.

 

[Baltazhar]

@13lade619: The bot isn't all that reliable as to determine an imba hero or not. It's a very simple bot, and if you find the right way to break it, I reckon you can will almost all games. It does have flaws.
If you find Beastmaster imba in several multiplayer games, that's another and nerfing him would definately be taken into consideration.

@Tru_Power22: Well that's pretty embarrasing. Shadowplay also remind me of this like a week ago, I just forgot to write it down.
Thanks for the info, I'll write it down right away

EDIT: Not has officially been written down

 

[Viikuna]

.81 BETA bugged for me.

edit. Removed an screenshot here picturing 2 round timers at the same time and weird shit like that.

 

[Baltazhar]

@Viikuna: That's new, and very disturbing.
I have not experienced that kind of bug before, and wonder how it happened. Did any player Lag/DC in the beginning of the map? We have had VERY random happenings if players DC before the modes are chosen, and we are looking into that as we get more knowledge about the kind of bugs it causes.

Can you elaborate what happened of uncommon things during that game? Perhaps even a replay? This is a major bug, and almost always ends up in the map having to be rehosted, due to these random, yet devastating mess-ups.

I can see that 2 timers are shown, and that you are only at the first round. If it's not related to a player DC'ing at the beginning, I'm really boned :banghead:

- Balt

 

[Viikuna]

Ey, Im not sure if that was the last game I played, but it might be that I have the "last replay" there.

If I recall right, one guy indeed left the game in the very start.

Going to check that last replay file.

edit. Tadaa:

View attachment LastReplay.w3g

 

[Baltazhar]

Wonderful! Thank you!
I'm gonna check the replay. Really appreciate the help <3

 

[Baltazhar]

@Viikuna: Just wanted to say thanks again for the replay.
There are issues when players DC/leave before modes are picked. I am still trying to clear up this problem, but there are a LOT of triggers to look through and crossreference
I didn't know the problem appeared when a player intentionally left, because I've only experienced DC's before. Either way, it has a very random but devastating effect on the map. It screws up differently everytime, but I know the symptoms.

Working on fixing it before our next release which should be in a couple of weeks.

@Everyone: Should you find bugs, glitches, have questions or anything, don't hesitate to ask and tell
Your help makes the map better ^^

- Baltazhar

 

[Renendaru]

Ah, forgot to post this. One of the hero's who had the global pvp spell to teleport to a target enemy hero will bug sometimes, and then teleport me to the exact middle of the map. Null location value ftl?

 

[Baltazhar]

@Renendaru:
That would be the Master Assassin. Never tried having an invalid point before, usually just works. Even with more of her, and a Demon Hunter or two, to mess the with swaps.
I will take a look into it, but I don't think I will be able to find anything wrong in the trigger.
Thanks for the reporting though, note taken

 

[Baltazhar]

Version 0.82 BETA released!

Updated the first post with a new link for the newest version of the map.

0.82 BETA Changelog

Spoiler

This version was released 6/9/2009


===Bug Fixes===
Fixed a typo in Warlord's Pride and Divine Intervention (Thanks to Ilsyde)
Removed MUI inconsistencies with Retaliation (Batter), Shield Charge,
Fixed a bug with the Graphics mode displaying to all players.
Fixed a bug in the Scarabs tooltip. (Thanks to Tru_Power22 from TheHelper.net)
Fairplay experience gain is no longer displayed with decimals.
Fixed a bug with the Defensive Stance damage reduction getting removed after a Shield Charge.
Fixed a bug with the Divine Intervention tooltip displaying as a single dot.
Fixed a bug with players having to manually stop Prophet of Hopi if he died during Shadow Serpents, to be able to recast it upon revival.
Fixed a bug with Shrine of Hopi's level requirements.
Fixed a bug that gave random and severe errors when a player left (or disconnected) before modes were chosen.
Corrected the name on the Shrine of Hopi ward.
Fixed a bug that made The Other Side not work properly with Immortal Soul. (Thanks to FrozeChaos)
Fixed a typo in Inferno's tooltip.
Caught the Apostle using Aether Strike to reach places he shouldn't be. He is now in detention, and is very ashamed of himself. (Thanks to FrozeChaos)
Fixed a bug that allowed Pitlord to cast Doom on allies (Thank you Shadowplay because you are my hero and I love you)

===Balance and Modifications===
Replaced Batter with Retaliation for the Veteran Warrior.
Renamed Warden to Shadow Warden, replaced Fan of Knives with Dark Pulse, replaced Blink with Night Mirror and Vengeance with Shadow Dance.
Removed the hotkeys on Genie's abilties.
Decreased the cooldown of Summon Genie from 150 to 120.
Renamed Hemomancer to Blood Shaman.
Changed the way Choking Vines moved.
Hammer of Retribution's cooldown is changed from 25/30/35 to 25 seconds, duration from 8/16/24 to 7 seconds and number of hammmers summoned from 1 to 1/2/4.
Holy Light's cooldown has been changed from 5 to 7 seconds, range from 800 to 500 and healed amount from 300/600/900 to 225/450/675.
Heaven's Army's cooldown has been changed from 180 to 90 seconds and duration from 60 to 30 seconds.
Replaced Devotion Aura with Renewed Faith for the Paladin.
Reduced the duration of Shadow Serpents from 35 to 25 seconds, and removed the Shadow Serpents' collision size completely.
Changed the way Prophet of Hopi gains Focus Power, now it's only every 15 seconds, increased by Shrine of Hopi.
Reduced the amount healed by Touch of Hasinar from 250/500/750 to 250/450/650.
Reduced the amount healed by Divine Intervention from 150/300/450 to 125/250/375, and increased its manacost from 75 to 90.

===New Content===
Added a -clear command, that clears the game messages.
Added a custom loading screen that doesn't require players to "Press any key.." and changed the minimap image (Both images made by our graphic engineer ey-Coco).

Let me know what you think

 

[Baltazhar]

Updated the first post with link to the newest version, and added a link for the full changelog as well.
Just for easier reference.

I hope you'll give me your oppinion, we need all the help we can get