Sci/Tech Scientists suggest spacetime has no time dimension

[The Helper]

The concept of time as a way to measure the duration of events is not only deeply intuitive, it also plays an important role in our mathematical descriptions of physical systems. For instance, we define an object’s speed as its displacement per a given time. But some researchers theorize that this Newtonian idea of time as an absolute quantity that flows on its own, along with the idea that time is the fourth dimension of spacetime, are incorrect. They propose to replace these concepts of time with a view that corresponds more accurately to the physical world: time as a measure of the numerical order of change.

n two recent papers (one published and one to be published) in Physics Essays, Amrit Sorli, Davide Fiscaletti, and Dusan Klinar from the Scientific Research Centre Bistra in Ptuj, Slovenia, have described in more detail what this means.
No time dimension

They begin by explaining how we usually assume that time is an absolute physical quantity that plays the role of the independent variable (time, t, is often the x-axis on graphs that show the evolution of a physical system). But, as they note, we never really measure t. What we do measure is an object’s frequency, speed, etc. In other words, what experimentally exists are the motion of an object and the tick of a clock, and we compare the object’s motion to the tick of a clock to measure the object’s frequency, speed, etc. By itself, t has only a mathematical value, and no primary physical existence.

This view doesn’t mean that time does not exist, but that time has more to do with space than with the idea of an absolute time. So while 4D spacetime is usually considered to consist of three dimensions of space and one dimension of time, the researchers’ view suggests that it’s more correct to imagine spacetime as four dimensions of space. In other words, as they say, the universe is “timeless.”

Scientists suggest spacetime has no time dimension

(PhysOrg.com) -- The concept of time as a way to measure the duration of events is not only deeply intuitive, it also plays an important role in our mathematical descriptions of physical systems. For instance, we define an object’s speed as its displacement per a given time. But some researchers...

phys.org

 

[Switch33]

Odd... I was literally just thinking time as a fourth dimension was wrong like yesterday. It just doesn't sound right. Being x, y, and z i always thought that the fourth dimension would be the ability to flip the frame of view for x, y, and z like if you flipped a box over on it's side the directions of x, y, and z would change for that box.

Anyways this also totally makes sense cause our whole concept of time has nothing relative to it besides well we base it off of clocks moving, shadows, and seasons. Many of which are earth only experiences. If we had this concept of "time" elsewhere outside in the world as a physical fourth dimension it just seems unlinked.

That's just my take on it though. But seriously I'm surprised that stuff like this takes so long to be written and considered. I mean I bet this idea has been thought up by many people but never really written down.

Some Random Rant of Mine:
Also this in my mind solves the problem with how the universe started- since there is no time in space and it's really just endless it could just be that we are but a spec in a huge time lapse meaning were just a crazy luck of chance but that chance had an increasingly greater possibility due to the extended amount of time. So the universe may have been created at one-time billions of years in many different ways, but more increasingly probable is than that the time that it took for the world and humans to be created may be very much less. Meaning that the universe being established had little effect besides just setting up the precursors for life. Which makes a lot more sense than believing in crazy things like some holy or special being created us or how you can go back in time. Going back in time requires time to be malleable which in all intentions and purposes is impossible especially without knowing the specific location of everything at that time period.
Science seems to be reporting much more well attuned principles for the start of human life like the thought that RNA or viruses came before DNA or cells. It makes sense, how can you decipher DNA with some RNA type virus without first knowing the structure.

 

[13lade619]

if time does not exist, then time travel is impossible.

 

[Dan]

Don't confuse yourself and others. Science shows us what we have. What happens. What happened. Theories like this one may indeed help us wrap our brains around concepts that are infinitely complex. We are amazing and intellectual beings that posses the ability to study what is around us. If you are thinking that things like this disprove the possibility of a creator, however, than you are mistaken. For me, for example, timelessness is something I would imagine to strengthen my understanding of God and my ability to realize how his realm and ours exist. Since no one can answer the question of "why" and no one can prove what the starting point was without guessing , than we will all be living on faith. Everyone has faith. Whatever your view of the beginning of the universe is, is your faith. I have no way to and never will be able to disprove whatever it is that you believe. The same is true the other way around. Theologists wield science too.

On another note, I do think it's an interesting thought! And Yes, DNA and RNA are amazing. I like that the universe is vast in both directions. The farthest and largest things are amazing just as the infinitely closest and smallest are. I also like that there is a sort of reflection in both of each other.

Space and time theories are all over the place though, this isn't the first time someone has thought of it for sure. But it's possibly a new take on a lot of old thoughts.

 

[tommerbob]

I don't think there's anything wrong with speculating. But that's all it amounts to when it comes to extra dimensions. Why? Because we live in a 3D world. Everything in human experience is geared toward 3D models and data. If someone DID experience a higher dimension, and then tried to describe it to us, he would most likely be thought of as insane or just simply laughed at, because human experience and language lacks the capability to describe something that is outside our experience of (in) the Universe.

It would be like a 2D person on a page coming alive in a 3D world. If he went back into his 2D world and tried to describe his experience to other 2D people, it would be nearly impossible (if not completely) because they have nothing to compare it to inside their own experience.

 

[Gev]

Time is space. If there is space ther is time. All what you guys are talking is not about time. You are talking about time flow, that can have many steps. I think that the seccond phase of human destiny is to understand, what is time.

 

[tommerbob]

I love semantics!

 

[D.V.D]

I like to look at time as a frame rate of the universe. Its the order of how things work

 

[tom_mai78101]

I like the way how Dialga and Palkia fight over our dimension, and we scientists try to bring Science into the conflict. But, seeing that there are so many things we have not yet understood, we can never make our theories perfect.

I loved how Pokemon gave me such profounding insights towards space and time.

 

[DDRtists]

Dimensions are simply that, concepts. There is no way to prove them, so if you can come up with any smart sounding idea, you can release a concept of your own!

 

[Gev]

i belive that there is some big misunderstanding between this to words Space and Time. Thous to are same.

 

[Failenx]

if time does not exist, then time travel is impossible.

Not true at all. If you understand what they're saying, it would seem like it would be even more likely to time travel than before.

All we would have to do is figure out a way to bend and manipulate what we call "time", whether that's by going as fast as the speed of light or something that we have not yet discovered.

All they're saying is that time does not exist physically, it exists through cause and effect essentially. (a clock ticking, etc.)

 

[SerraAvenger]

I thought this was the news section?

 

[FireCat]

Oh crap, no time travel then? hehe

 

[Nigerianrulz]

Time is space. If there is space ther is time. All what you guys are talking is not about time. You are talking about time flow, that can have many steps. I think that the seccond phase of human destiny is to understand, what is time.

time flow? what...

i belive that there is some big misunderstanding between this to words Space and Time. Thous to are same.

not really..?

 

[Gev]

Surely you do not understand what I am saying. In my opinion for time existence you need a space, room for any action. If there is no action which is agen in my opinion possibale inside of the large pile of matter, the time flow starts to change. Phrase ''Time flow'' is the on going speed of time which is the main object of your descussion here. Example: "Time travel" reverse or fast forwerd of time flow. Plus i think that the Gravity is effect of Time flow speed change.

 

[Nigerianrulz]

firstly it seems to me that english isnt your first language and your expressions arent very clear and im trying to make sense of what you are trying to say.
your definition of "Time flow" isnt very accurate... this article suggest that we actually do not know what time is, it puts forward the fact that time is merely a mathematical measurement of frequency and speed.
Maybe you can give a better definition of "the normal speed of time".
I dont do physics (chose chemistry instead cause too much maths D: ) but isnt gravity one of the weakest force?

 

[Gev]

some of phisicists are agree that gravity is veary wheak force.

 

[FireCat]

but isnt gravity one of the weakest force?

Gravity Is the Weakest!

Well, Just found this.. You decide for yourself. lol
[youtube]s7Babitv4Fg[/youtube]

 

[D.V.D]

How would gravity "leak" across dimensions? Dimensions don't even have to exist for all we know, they can be theoretically possible in math but not in the universe(s). Gravity is a force and all forces basically translate into some form of electricity so how would it leak?