Should women be drafted into the military?

[nabbig2]

Because it is totally relevant. There is no room for any soldier to fall in love with another one. Even if women were allowed and it was segregated, then everyone is going to bitch because the women are treated better or some fucking thing. If they let women into combat, then they are going to be stationed with with the men in combat, and that is an issue.

Let them bitch. Or, by that principle, should we not let girls go to school because the boys are complaining about the girls having better bathrooms? Or when they complain the girls have more lenient physical education requirements?

And like I said, not us for those reasons. You CANNOT fall in love with a woman and it would be a hazard in combat as far as I am concerned, and I am fairly certain I have more experience in it than you so don't fucking lecture me about what you feel it's like and what you feel will happen, because you're wrong. And Israel doesn't let women have combat arms positions. They WERE for a time, but then they realized that the men react much stronger to female casualties and it was disruptive and demoralizing. So no, the IDF does not let women in combat roles. China and Cuba... they would probably kill you if you fucked up at all.

You seem to have the notion that your experience and position in the army has granted you some omniscient power and knowledge about the military. I don't mean to demean the work you did, but you are wrong if you think you that grants you automatic knowledge. Just because I haven't been in the military doesn't mean I don't know about it. I'm not lecturing you, I'm presenting an argument. You have failed to address the part about China and Cuba with anything but a meaningless reply...have you actually noticed that what they are doing works, and that it's actually possible?

And at that time I believe it would become more of fight for desperation, where you won't be concerned because you're not fighting for a country anymore, you're fighting for your own wellbeing. And at that point I seriously doubt there would be much order left in society and the structural chain of the military would have broken down.

If any soldier is daydreaming about sexual intercourse when he (or she) should be focusing on combat, then that's really not the kind of person that should be in the military. Soldiers can be taught, trained, and discipline not to mess around with the other sex. I realize that sex drive can very well become a problem when you are out there so long, and will never go away completely, but again, it hasn't stopped other countries from integrating their armies successfully. I understand it's an obstacle, but in my opinion it's a shitty social norm that eventually can, and should be overcome.

Many people were upset with African Americans being allowed to use white facilities, because it would cause problems. Obviously, it did, it caused numerous social issues. It still does today. But depriving a minority or group of people because of other people's adverse social reactions...at least in my mind, is wrong.

 

[ElderKingpin]

girls actually have better bathrooms, because they spend more time in their then guys do. Anyway. I think the debate is separated into two categories

"Women are not physically fit for combat" and "Women have a higher tendency to fall in love".

Either way. If you say no. You get a bunch of activists up your ass. If you say yes. One of those two problems have a chance of occurring.

 

[Varine]

girls have more lenient physical education requirements?

Probably why we shouldn't let them have combat roles?

"Women are not physically fit for combat" and "Women have a higher tendency to fall in love".

I'm not saying the girl will fall in love. I don't care who is in love with who, casualties take a toll on you when you spend so much time together. Even if you hated the guy you still miss him every now and then because it's not the same. If you're in love, it's going to hit way differently.

You seem to have the notion that your experience and position in the army has granted you some omniscient power and knowledge about the military. I don't mean to demean the work you did, but you are wrong if you think you that grants you automatic knowledge. Just because I haven't been in the military doesn't mean I don't know about it. I'm not lecturing you, I'm presenting an argument. You have failed to address the part about China and Cuba with anything but a meaningless reply...have you actually noticed that what they are doing works, and that it's actually possible?

Yeah it's called experience. Unlike you, I have some right to talk about what combat is like because, unlike you, I've been there and, unlike you, I've seen people die that I don't even care about and still it takes a toll. And it was relevant, because China and Cuba are not the US; they don't care about what happens. I don't doubt that if you did anything that you weren't supposed to, you would be killed or something. Not court martialed, not demoted, flat out physically punished. So yes, let's do that to our soldiers. Great fucking idea.

If any soldier is daydreaming about sexual intercourse when he (or she) should be focusing on combat, then that's really not the kind of person that should be in the military. Soldiers can be taught, trained, and discipline not to mess around with the other sex. I realize that sex drive can very well become a problem when you are out there so long, and will never go away completely, but again, it hasn't stopped other countries from integrating their armies successfully. I understand it's an obstacle, but in my opinion it's a shitty social norm that eventually can, and should be overcome.

You're not in combat all fucking day. I was leading them through Fallujah, most of the time it's on patrol. It's boring. From time to time someone would shoot at you, and fifteen minutes later it would be over and you would continue on patrol, and after six or seven hours of that it's expected your mind is going to wander, and if you have a fucking woman with you, why not think about that? I didn't read the rest of it because you're not furthering anything but the fact that you decided to ignore or for whatever reason disagree with basic facts, like the fact that mean think about sex a lot and genetically are programmed to do that to an extent.

Many people were upset with African Americans being allowed to use white facilities, because it would cause problems. Obviously, it did, it caused numerous social issues. It still does today. But depriving a minority or group of people because of other people's adverse social reactions...at least in my mind, is wrong.

Maybe your mind should go to war and see what it's like before telling me that it's very bad and immature and stupid for someone to think about sex when there isn't much else to do. If you're on patrol for seven hours, as I said, and nothing happens, you think you shouldn't be in the military because you think about things other than the combat that you're not in. This is more useless than my comment about China and Cuba, at least it was relevant. I can't believe you're comparing the civil rights movement to letting women go shoot people. That's... no that is just flat out ridiculous.

 

[nabbig2]

Probably why we shouldn't let them have combat roles?



I'm not saying the girl will fall in love. I don't care who is in love with who, casualties take a toll on you when you spend so much time together. Even if you hated the guy you still miss him every now and then because it's not the same. If you're in love, it's going to hit way differently.



Yeah it's called experience. Unlike you, I have some right to talk about what combat is like because, unlike you, I've been there and, unlike you, I've seen people die that I don't even care about and still it takes a toll. And it was relevant, because China and Cuba are not the US; they don't care about what happens. I don't doubt that if you did anything that you weren't supposed to, you would be killed or something. Not court martialed, not demoted, flat out physically punished. So yes, let's do that to our soldiers. Great fucking idea.

Interesting, you believe that since I haven't been in combat I don't have the right to talk about it. I guess I shouldn't talk about the holocaust either, because I wasn't in it.

Also, what do you mean by "they don't care what happens"? Are you implying that the US is more "loving", and really gives a damn about every soldier? If so, you are sadly mistaken.
Also, would you mind providing any solid facts to backup your assertion that Chinese and Cuban soldiers that disobey orders would be killed? Anyway, you missed the point. It's possible to have men and women in the army at the same time, just like they coexist in every day life. Obviously it's not going to be perfect, but it's very feasible.
You also completely twisted my argument. Not once did I say that our soldiers should be physically punished.

You're not in combat all fucking day. I was leading them through Fallujah, most of the time it's on patrol. It's boring. From time to time someone would shoot at you, and fifteen minutes later it would be over and you would continue on patrol, and after six or seven hours of that it's expected your mind is going to wander, and if you have a fucking woman with you, why not think about that? I didn't read the rest of it because you're not furthering anything but the fact that you decided to ignore or for whatever reason disagree with basic facts, like the fact that mean think about sex a lot and genetically are programmed to do that to an extent.

Again, anyone who is causing sexual harassment or is performing sexual acts that are distracting needs to be dealt with in terms of punishment. Soldiers shouldn't be allowed to let such emotions screw up the whole fight. After all, you said it yourself:

There is no room for feelings

Maybe your mind should go to war and see what it's like before telling me that it's very bad and immature and stupid for someone to think about sex when there isn't much else to do. If you're on patrol for seven hours, as I said, and nothing happens, you think you shouldn't be in the military because you think about things other than the combat that you're not in. This is more useless than my comment about China and Cuba, at least it was relevant. I can't believe you're comparing the civil rights movement to letting women go shoot people. That's... no that is just flat out ridiculous.

I didn't say it's bad to think about sex, but that it's bad to perform sexual actions that would result in problems during combat. Thinking about sex is one thing, but actually doing it is another.

What I said about the civil rights movement was an analogy, and it's not ridiculous.
Both the African Americans, and women, would cause potential problems if they were allowed into their respective roles. They are both perfectly capable of fitting into their "roles", but it's the ignorant other side that prevents them from doing so because of feelings. It's this side that needs to get over their emotions and prejudices, and allow for a new order that doesn't discriminate on the base of race/gender. See the connection now?

 

[thewrongvine]

Eh, Nabbig, school, civil rights... that stuff is different from war. People complain about safe things all the time, but death is different.

And you can't overcome those problems. Humans are messed up. Discipline won't change it all, maybe it'll change the majority, but it only takes one person to screw up and cause everything to go wrong.

~Hai-Bye-Vine~

 

[Varine]

Remember that one douche in school that put gum under the table and then no one could chew gum in that class anymore? Well it's kind of like that except someone died or got hurt and there's a good chance that someone is going to have to pack bodies out. Do you want to do that? Because I never did, and it happens. Think about it: you're emotions are going to overpower everything. Everyone wants to be a hero, and when you have the chance you either will or you won't. But I'd be willing to bet most people will risk a hell of a lot more to save a woman than they would a man.