Situation Report: Patch 1.3

Sevion

The DIY Ninja
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Greetings, citizens of the Koprulu sector! It’s been some time since we last submitted a situation report for StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty, but with patch 1.3, we felt that it was a good time to address some of the changes we implemented and our thoughts on them. We’ve pulled out some of the most notable patch notes to explain our design philosophy and the thinking behind this update.
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Balance Changes
  • Players can no longer hide units by setting them in a close proximity patrol (ex: Viking flower).

There was a core problem with the Viking flower strategy in that there was no way to know how many Vikings were patrolling a specific area. In StarCraft II, scouting armies is already a difficult and important aspect of play, and it was definitely not our intention to make it possible for air units to use this patrol method to disguise their numbers. We consider this case more of a bug fix than a balance change.

Protoss
  • Units leaving the Mothership's Vortex are now un-targetable and immune to damage for 1.5 seconds.

This was another case that we viewed as more of a bug fix than a balance change. The original concept of Vortex was that it was more than just a stasis or a lockdown. In addition to having the protoss player lock down a part of his or her opponent’s army, the spell was supposed to also be about creating situations for enemy interaction with the Vortex.

For example: If I'm playing zerg and half of my army was Vortexed, I may decide to put the remaining half into the Vortex. Conversely, I could choose to simply sacrifice half of my units instead and run with the rest if greatly outnumbered by the protoss opponent. However, there was a bug in which splash units instantly killed everything coming out of a Vortex, preventing the different types of interactions we originally intended.

  • Khaydarin Amulet upgrade (+25 starting energy) has been removed.

This is perhaps the 1.3 patch change that was most discussed by the community and we wanted to take some to time to explain the rationale behind it. Ultimately, there were two reasons we wanted to remove this item.

  1. We felt this upgrade reduced strategic choice. When combined with stalker or charge zealot warp-ins, this upgrade made it nearly impossible to do any sort of harassment attack anywhere there was a pylon. We didn’t like the reduction in strategic options, as the opponent could only fight major battles with protoss in the late game.
  2. We felt late game protoss splash damage was slightly overpowered. This applies both to high templars and colossi. We felt that if we were to nerf both of these units protoss may end up too weak in the late game. Therefore, we decided to adjust high templars first and see how the game plays out. As we’ve mentioned many times before, we feel it’s safer to take small steps in making balance changes than making drastic changes to an entire race.
  • Charging Zealots will now hit fleeing targets at least once.

Even after researching Charge, there are times when zealots aren’t able to hit the opponent even once and just end up getting kited to death. Although this change will not suddenly flip the relationship in those cases, we wanted to improve it a bit. We want Charge zealots to perform better than normal zealots in as many scenarios as possible.

Terran
  • Battlecruiser movement speed increased from 1.406 to 1.875.

Although we don’t want to see battlecruisers used in every terran late game, we noticed they’re hardly ever used at all. To encourage their use in more games, we decided to buff their biggest weakness, movement speed.
  • Bunker build time increased from 35 to 40 seconds.
The focus of this change was strictly on reducing the effectiveness of offensive bunkering. With the build time increased, we noticed that there wasn’t as much of a change to defensive bunkers, whereas offensive bunkering is a lot more difficult to pull off.

  • EMP now drains up to 100 energy instead of all available energy. The effect on protoss shields remains unchanged.

We had three main reasons for implementing this change:

  1. We wanted ghost EMP to be less effective vs. infestors in the ZvT matchup. Infestors are fairly slow moving and have high costs. We felt that one EMP shutting down multiple Infestors was too much.
  2. After the high templar change, we noticed the ghost vs. high templar relationship was a bit too much in the ghost’s favor.
  3. Early/mid game sentries are almost a requirement vs. terran. However, there were scenarios at different skill levels where one EMP would manage to luck out and hit every single sentry, making it so that protoss had no chance to stop the mass Stimpack terran army.
  • Stimpack upgrade research time increased from 140 to 170 seconds.

It wouldn’t be the first time we’ve heard that there were concerns from players about the use of Stimpacks and there’s a reason why; Stimpack timing pushes by terran players can be extremely difficult for opponents to stop without employing effective scouting. We wanted these types of pushes to come slightly later in order to provide more time for opponents to prepare for these attacks and to potentially get scouting units together to effectively scout for these types of pushes.

Zerg

  • Fungal Growth stun duration decreased from 8 to 4 seconds.
  • Fungal Growth damage increased by +30% vs. armored units.
Both of the Fungal Growth changes were mainly made to address a ZvZ issue with mutalisk vs. infestor, and to make infestors more useful vs. protoss. For mutalisks, we found they were just not useful enough in ZvZ due to the Fungal Growth stun duration being too long. So, the duration was reduced to make them a bit more viable in the ZvZ matchup. This reduction in stun duration means the damage goes in faster. However, we realized that mutalisks suffer mostly due to stuns combined with hydralisks shooting from below. As for infestors themselves, we found they weren’t that useful vs. protoss. We wanted to solve both of these issues while keeping infestors as powerful as they are vs. terran. Fungal Growth’s damage itself wasn’t as big of a problem as the stun, so we decided to go with this change so that the stun duration reduction is somewhat countered by the damage buff.

The +30% armored damage change was more strictly targeted towards stalker-based protoss armies, as well as marauder-based terran armies. We wanted infestors to be more of a core unit in the ZvP matchup while keeping them just as useful vs. terran. The stun duration reduction change by itself didn’t allow these two things, so we had to make this damage change as well in order to arrive at the right place for the infestor.
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We've made every effort to weigh these types of changes very carefully and will continue to do so in the future. We understand the impact they have on gameplay and want to make sure that when we make a change, it’s for the betterment of the game as a whole. The metagame is always changing, and that can make balancing the game a challenge, but we are dedicated to constantly evolving StarCraft II and committed to providing the kind of epic gameplay experience the community expects.

* David Kim is a Game Balance Designer for StarCraft II. He plays random against himself-- and wins.

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http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150204457857457&comments
 

Bloodcount

Starcraft II Moderator
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new fungal growth is imba, protoss lategame is a nightmare, today I played against a good terran, It was a back and forth battle, I was better macro wise and in the final battle the lack of area of effect saved him. he had enough vikings to one-shot collosi. Ht's just didn't cut it since I rarely had mana for storm...
 

Siretu

Starcraft 2 Editor Moderator
Reaction score
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New fungal growth is very good but not imba. Infestors feel like a must-have in ZvZ now.

What is the reason for the change in the metagame in PvT? The removal of the khaydarin amulet? It's like storm would have an initial 25 second cooldown before it could be used(only once per templar) It hurts since you cant do warp-in storms but that you "rarely have mana for storm" shouldn't be so much because of that. Also, the ghost nerf should help.

Still, you're way more knowledgeable than I am when it comes to Protoss. I just don't see the huge problem. Especially since a Protoss beat his entire way to the finals without losing a single game(he won 25+ matches) I think he won the finals but I don't know since I stopped watching right before that.
 

Sevion

The DIY Ninja
Reaction score
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I hate HT with Khydarian. My army literally can't get close to the army. Nor can my mutas do any harass. Etc etc.

In short, Protoss AOE was wayyy too op and effective.
 

YourFace

<span style="color:#9C9C9C;"><strong>Runner Up - T
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I hate HT with Khydarian. My army literally can't get close to the army. Nor can my mutas do any harass. Etc etc.

In short, Protoss AOE was wayyy too op and effective.
Zerg isn't about power but skill.
 

Sevion

The DIY Ninja
Reaction score
424
Have you tried navigating the small chokes with 4-5 HT constantly Storming your entire army?
 

Bloodcount

Starcraft II Moderator
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297
>In short, Protoss AOE was wayyy too op and effective.

Clearly you are a noob if you think that protoss AoE is OP and cost effective without proper support and say that fungaw growth is fine.

Siretu, the problem comes with the mana regeneration, it isn't 25 seconds, it is 33.3.

I don't mind storm being on cooldown like the corruptor's corruption is. The problem in the pvt lategame is the following- (I am still figuring it out since there are few terrans that can survive to the late game against me) With a good viking number you are forced into templars, dark or high, immortals as well.

The army that you will meet is MMM and tanks and vikings. Gate units + immortals won't cut it, really I have tried even some of WhiteRa's aproaches into the battle with this army composition and it wasn't that much more effective, so clearly something is missing... okay HT's, but how since they can be sniped from the tanks before they are in range, I don't experiment with DT's since this will force ravens out, wich is far worse than anything the terran can shoot at you since the PDF+ siege tank is a certain death for half of your army even if u retreat.

That being said let's look at the options protoss has in this current state (there is MMM +tank Viking)

Archons are always an option for me (since I love them) because they take a lot of punishment and +3 attack are just sick, sick pwnage, still it is hard to get them to the point where they deal dmg (short range)

The other option is simply put, go deathball. Versus zerg it is a potent strategy, with the lack of fast psy storm the protoss mobility is castrated to the point in wich i'd be better just to go deathball instead of opting for mobility.


Yes, the big problem is the mobility, that the units wich you are forced to take are as mobile as shit and work good only together (but form the deathball)

So basically:
Early game pvt gate units
Mid game pvt transition
Late game pvt death ball or gg
 

s3rius

Linux is only free if your time is worthless.
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Ht's just didn't cut it since I rarely had mana for storm...

Warp them in at your base, fight a little, take them with you.
It's less convenient than pre-1.3, but I don't see it as a problem.

Granted, I haven't played much protoss after the 1.3 patch, but it doesn't sound like much of a challenge lol.

And you still have another composition - look at Adelscott's PvT. He didn't build a single Colossus/HT and completely trashed MVP 2:0 with gateway units alone (and both games went into late-game).
 

Bloodcount

Starcraft II Moderator
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I am actually considering copying adelscott's build, but it worked mainly because he was always atleast 1 base ahead of his opponent he cloud afford to loose more because he had better macro, and with good macro even carriers are viable. (The build is amazing nontheless)


I will have to explain it for the 30569 time... after the initial battle you will 100% loose your collosi to the vikings. It is very uncommon that you will have enough time to warp in and wait that much time to get some aoe, and without aoe you do need gosu micro and flawless army composition to deal with MMM, Most of my pvt late game games have really neveerending battles. A few days ago (should have saved the replay) I had a game on shattered temple, it was a nevernding battle, I push him to tanks, then reinforsements come, he pushes me.... I managed to barely, barely hold the watch tower of the map with 12 (or was it 14) gates, archons, chargelots and blinkstalkers.


Did I mention that this barely was when I was on 4 base, he was on 2 ? :] Now Imagine if he had had the common scence to expand again...
 

Sevion

The DIY Ninja
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Fight HTs on a choke, great idea.

Try entering the enemy base when the only option is air (which gets killed by Storms) or get killed at the front door choke with storms on the highground.

Not to mention as soon as you snipe the HT, there are 5 more to replace them.

Seriously, the only way to fight HT is with Gosu range micro whereas HT's only take mediocre micro to use. Plant them on highground, hit t and click. Zerg is forced to retreat.

Bloodcount, I'm not even going to comment at you. You're just trolling now.
 

Slapshot136

Divide et impera
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do infestors out-range HT's? (like can they stun/kill them before they get a storm off?)
 

YourFace

<span style="color:#9C9C9C;"><strong>Runner Up - T
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Try entering the enemy base when the only option is air (which gets killed by Storms) or get killed at the front door choke with storms on the highground.

Not to mention as soon as you snipe the HT, there are 5 more to replace them.

Seriously, the only way to fight HT is with Gosu range micro whereas HT's only take mediocre micro to use. Plant them on highground, hit t and click. Zerg is forced to retreat.

Bloodcount, I'm not even going to comment at you. You're just trolling now.

5 HTs = 750 gas. Nice job letting him get all of that.
also great idea for going into a choke against HTs. Your micro is like 75 apm Gosu is probably 300.
If you want to beat Toss you need to harass their base and block their vision, but with 75 apm you'll probably lose all your units and not macro at all, which is 80% of the case with you.

Just some advice, you shouldn't watch tournament replays if you're not good since you can't keep up or you don't know what the hell you're doing mid-game when you get marine scv rushed by some silver league guy.
 

Sevion

The DIY Ninja
Reaction score
424
Right. I'm gonna just you know... Haxxor his game and not ever let him get 750 gas. If he's at 749 gas, perfect.

I know what I'll do next time. I'll fly my units out of the map and then back in from the null by his mineral line.

That'll work.
 

s3rius

Linux is only free if your time is worthless.
Reaction score
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5 HTs = 750 gas. Nice job letting him get all of that.

Yea, because no decent player lets his opponent get 5 HTs - ever. That's unheard of. Right?

Have you ever seen long macro games with toss going for HTs? Sure they're expensive, but you can get one for every tank or for every 1.5 mutas your enemy makes.
Even on 2-base you can already pump out a good amount of HTs and still have some spare gas for Stalkers or upgrades. Once you're on 3+ bases it gets less of a problem.

And it's not like you're wasting them by using warp-in or something.
HTs are reactional, not preemtive. You only need to warp them in if the enemy drops. You kill the drop and you can let the HT join the rest of your army. You're not using money on static defense.
 

Bloodcount

Starcraft II Moderator
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Sevion, you think I am trolling you ? You think you understand the game ? What league are you in ? I am masters in my main ACC, rank 1 diamond with my smurf account... I doubt you have a better understanding at the game than me ^_^

EDIT: my point is, you have an euro acc I will love to play against you if you feel that I am trolling you, or if you think that you understand the game better than me. :]
 

Sevion

The DIY Ninja
Reaction score
424
Yes, I do Bloodcount.

>In short, Protoss AOE was wayyy too op and effective.

Clearly you are a noob if you think that protoss AoE is OP and cost effective without proper support and say that fungaw growth is fine.

Calling someone a noob isn't exactly great ways to have discussions.

If you insist on my reply, I never once said Protoss AoE is OP without support (which it still is pretty OP in some maps I.E. Maps with chokes at the front door while the base has no back door).

I never said Fungal Growth was fine. I never even mentioned it.

And as it stands, I feel that they play different rolls. Storm is for med-high damage. Fungal Growth is now for stun and weakening while also capable of being used to help your army retreat.

I never said I think I understand the game better than you. I never said I was better than you. I fully realize there are a lot of people who are much better than me...

Your perceived tone is very conceited and arrogant, tbh.
 

Slapshot136

Divide et impera
Reaction score
471
looked it up - high templars and infestors have the same range for psi storm/funal growth, and if you say feedback > infestors, consider that infestors have longer range with neural parasite, thus they can take out the HT's faster/more effectively - now as far as protoss warping in, that's one of the unique protoss advantages - zerg get their own, mainly burrowing/regen

- it's normal that the person defending at a choke has an advantage.. 300 anyone? - basically if they defend, then you need to let them hole up and take over the entire map - something that is easier for the zerg to do due to the lower cost of hatcheries compared to the others

also, brood lords > HT's late game
 

Bloodcount

Starcraft II Moderator
Reaction score
297
>Calling someone a noob isn't exactly great ways to have discussions.

I am not trying to have a discussion here. I am stating that the HT nerf was dumb. If they didn't want instant storms, just set the storm on cooldown when the HT is warped in. Anyone with a different oppinion better have good knowledge about the protoss race in general and at least decent skill(wich is platinum/diamond for me, points don't really matter) to back his knowedge up, else I will probably LOL.

>Your perceived tone is very conceited and arrogant, tbh.

I am not denying that. Read what I wrote above.

You know what, screw it, give me a list of reasons why you think the nerf is fine as it is and I will try to explain why I think it was balanced. It is a forum after all, I will overcome myself.
 
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