Skin transparencies not working since 1.19 patch?

[Soul Reaver]

Ok, this is both bizarre and really, really irritating. I'm seriously hoping someone knows what's going on, because I sure don't.

I have several characters in my maps with custom skins. The models have been left untouched, but I exported the skins, photoshopped them, and then imported them back in.

Three characters are notable because I changed their 'look' by removing certain parts of their skin entirely - essentially making chunks of them transparent. For example, I made the Paladin model's 'book' transparent, so now he looks like he has that hand free.

More importantly, I also made transparent a Daemon Hunter's weapons and a Dark Troll Berserker axes - in both cases, I gave them different weapons by attaching 3d weapon models to their hand using a special effect trigger at the start of the map.

This worked great... until the new 1.19 patch.

Now for some reason, the modified Dark Troll Berserker (and only the Dark Troll Berserker... which, incidentally, was my favourite of the custom skins) doesn't look right anymore. Specifically, any 'transparent' areas on the skin are now entirely flat and white (in fact I even discovered that if I exported, saved, and then re-imported an otherwise unchanged Troll skin, even areas that were already transparent on the original show up as areas of flat colour when I re-import them). I have no idea why. As a result, rather than carrying what are effectively transparent weapons, he's carrying two completely featureless flat, white axes.

I've tried to re-import the file, thinking perhaps the patch corrupted it or something, but no - the old file has the same problem. Checking it in photoshop clearly shows that the skins used for the axes are transparent (NOT white) but for some reason the 3D model in Warcraft 3 now no longer shows them as transparent.

Any idea of why this has happened? Anyone seen anything like this before? And most importantly... is there ANY way to fix this?

(PS: If you'd like to see some small before and after pictures of the character - ie, one before the problem started, and one with the problem - PM me with an e-mail address or AIM name and I'll gladly send them your way)

 

[NsaneWallaby]

I've done texturing before, but not in Warcraft 3. I did it in Dungeon Siege, but in that, the default texture was either a black and yellow striped object or an invisible object. Which, thinking back on the problems I had of getting the textures right, I have some ideas that might be perhaps a little bit of help to you.

First, I'm not sure how the textures work for each unit in this game, but it could be that your transparent image may be read differently with the new patch. Have you tried making the image non-transparent? Furthermore, is white your choice of the transparent color? Sometimes, certain games and programs do not support complete transparency for whatever reason. This patch could have broken transparency support on accident. Another thing to try is taking out the texture altogether, if that works. If it yields a white troll, then Warcraft likely views your transparencies as missing textures.

Another idea is a possibility of a tiny corruption of the map itself, which, when the patch came through, screwed up all of the model textures. But, it sounds like you've already checked that out, so it is likely not the cause.

Another possibility is a change in the UVW mapping coordinates and texture assignments with the patch, although I highly doubt this is the problem, as that deals with screwing with the models and such, which is nothing that somebody would want to do to an already working model. However, the axes could be mapped on a different texture now or something, although I doubt it. I'd have to say your best bet would be toying around with the transparency.

Sorry I can't help more, but I've only really started working with the warcraft 3 map editing a week ago (Knowing the Starcraft, Warcraft 2, Morrowind, Dungeon Siege, Age of Empires, Age of Empires 2, and Heroes of Might and Magic 2 and 3 map editors makes me have to choose what to work on next, so I just now finally got around to this). This week has been about sufficient to know the ins and outs of the GUI interface and different trigger functions with a 6 to 6 schedule for work and classes, so I haven't really gotten any further. I know how frustrating that stuff can be though, so good luck with it.

 

[Soul Reaver]

Here are the results of two tests I tried. I don't know if this info will help anyone in helping me, but maybe it will... I'm hopeful, at least... : /

1) I used Image Extractor II to extract the DarkTroll.blp file as DarkTroll.tga. I then opened DarkTroll.tga in Photoshop and saved the file (made no changes to it though). I then used Image Extractor II to convert DarkTroll.tga back to DarkTroll.blp, and imported it into my map.

Result: the transperancies that are MEANT to show up on the DarkTroll.blp model don't work anymore. Although they're not white, they show other colours that are visible on the .blp file but shouldn't (and normally don't) show up on the model.

From this, I gather that the causes for the transperencies not working could be any or all of the following: extracting it, converting it from .blp to .tga, opening/saving it in photoshop, converting it from .tga to .blp, or using it as an imported skin in the map. Now I'm going to proceed to narrow it down with another test.

2) I used Image Extractor II to extract the DarkTroll.blp file, but left it as DarkTroll.blp. I did nothing to it at all, just imported it into my map.

Result: Exactly the same as above - the small part at the bottom of the loincloth that is meant to be transparent in the original model isn't transparent anymore when I do this.

Thus, the transperancies failing could be caused simply by extracting the file with Image Extractor II or importing it into the map. Things aren't looking good.

3) I used the DarkTroll.tga file above and used the eraser tool to erase everything - for the other models, using the erasel tool is what allowed me to render parts of them transparent. After doing this, I drew a single black line across the middle (since the World Editor will not use an imported .blp file that consist only of transperancy alone - if you try to do this, it just reverts to the default skin). I then converted this .tga to a .blp file an imported it.

Result: the entire unit (save for a black line) was entirely WHITE. It was NOT transparent. So using the eraser tool in this instance doesn't create transperancy, only white space.

 

[Grurf]

Try using WC3Viewer to convert the .blp's, this program handles them differently. Maybe it will make a difference.

 

[Soul Reaver]

Nope, that wasn't any help either.

I downloaded Warcraft 3 Viewer and used it to extract the DarkTroll.blp file, converting it to DarkTroll.tga. Then I converted it back to .blp and imported it into the map... and it had exactly the same problem as I had with Image Extractor II.

Any other programs I can try? Or anyone know what ELSE might be causing this?

 

[DDRtists]

I get this all the time with the gaurd towers, they look fine in the WE, but when i go to test the game, they are completly white... but if i play the game by opening TFT, then they work fine :nuts:

 

[NsaneWallaby]

Sorry, if I hadn't been working on C++ all blinkin' day (I miss my Java--pity it is so inefficient), I would've popped in earlier and said something again. And awesome, already got myself some reputation. Anyways...

You said that you used the eraser tool to simulate transparency effects? The eraser? That's a good eraser. But, that's besides the point. I'm not sure how transparencies work with .blp and .tga files, but your method is completely different from how I have gotten transparencies to work for other things. But then again, that could just be because you use Photoshop, while I use Paint Shop Pro 9.0. Anyways, here's how I do it.

For transparencies in Paint Shop Pro, you specify either the background or a single color as the transparent color. I'm not sure--that might be what you are doing now, but what I do has no eraser involved--but anyways, that's how it gets done for me. So, when you use that image, that whole blob of white, brown, tangerine orange, neon-pastel periwinkle, or whatever color you specify is nice and invisible. Makes for nice effects with armor, especially in Dungeon Siege-like games, because then you can go running about with only a disembodied head and such. Essentially, you would need to apply that color all over the section to be made invisible, and then specify it that way, and you're good to go.

Well, assuming that the image file SUPPORTS transparency. Which, as it did originally, it probably does, so you should be good there.

Well, at least that's how it is done for me. I don't have Photoshop due to being an out-of-state student (and thusly being quite poor, if you consider eating only twice a day to keep groceries less than $10 a week poor), so unfortunately I can't check out the stuff inside Photoshop for you. If I can finish some homework up and such and still have more than two hours of sleep that I can get though, I'll start tooling around with transparencies and images for Warcraft 3 and see if I can figure something out with Paint Shop Pro, because I'm quite interested in this myself. If I can, I'll let you know.

 

[DDRtists]

don't have Photoshop due to being an out-of-state student (and thusly being quite poor, if you consider eating only twice a day to keep groceries less than $10 a week poor)

you could not endorse illegal methods of acquiring software on these forums, which do not support such things.

 

[Sargon]

I believe that there's a program called GIMP or something that's very muhc like Photoshop, and is free.

 

[DDRtists]

Im sorry i posted that i will not do it again

 

[NsaneWallaby]

Whoa, you went a little overboard. I said I did not have the money to buy Photoshop, not that I was a giant file-ripping pirate sailing the seven cyber seas (and saying ARRR to good measure, mind you). I have Paint Shop Pro, which a friend gave to me because he knew that I did some programming and image editing, but he did not use since he had Photoshop (wealthy family, father was a computer science teacher at a campus, randomly got gifts of such things like 1 gig sticks of RAM from his father and so on). I just merely said that I do not have Photoshop, so I can not help by looking at the stuff in THAT PARTICULAR program.

By saying I have no money, I did not in any way say that I endorsed file ripping. I have not touched that stuff before, and do not plan to do it, especially after what I saw it do to another friend's computer with the viruses. Furthermore, I fully support the companies that create software. I feel good knowing that buying a product supports the company that produced it. It is what keeps our economy going.

Please do not jump on me so. I am only trying to help another person. It is rude to jump to conclusions that harm another's reputation; I would greatly appreciate it if you did not do so. And please refrain from taking my words out of context. Thanks.

And relevant stuff to the post...I'll probably start checking it out on Wednesday. If you reply or stay active, I'll send a PM if I get anywhere.

Oh, and thanks for the thing about GIMP Sargon, but like I said, I have Paint Shop Pro, and am fine with that. It can handle all the editing I need. It's just not the same thing as what the original poster was using, so it's not like I can try to figure it out, and then have him emulate it or something if I do find a way to fix it since we are using different programs.

 

[Soul Reaver]

Hey, thanks for the all the interest NsaneWallaby.

But there's been some developments here that you should know about.

Well, firstly, I know using the eraser tool to create transperancies might sound a bit strange, but it actually worked. I have a Daemon Hunter model with transparent blades and an Arthas model with a transparent book, both of which I used that same method for, and as I said: it worked for this model too, before the 1.19 patch.

The reason I was using the eraser was because Photoshop 7.0 can't display the Alpha1 channel in .tga files that is required to have transperancies in Warcraft 3 .blp files. Not to worry though, I've got myself the 7.0.1 patch in the meantime so even that's not an issue anymore.

But now onto the REAL core of the problem.

I've actually realised that the transperancies aren't even working for the basic, normal, non-imported, non-custom models in Warcraft 3! That's right - take a look at any Forest Troll or Dark Troll (probably Ice Trolls too) (preferably a berserker, but I think priests and trappers have this problem as well).

Now take a look at its loincloth. Easiest way to do this is to look at the model in the World Editor and zoom in, although you can move the camera around in any Warcraft 3 map with Forest/Dark/Ice Trolls to take a look if you like. (Maybe you want to be alone for this, or people might start wondering why you're so fixated on a Troll's loincloth)

The loincloth is supposed to be torn at the sides, giving a sort of triangular shape - transperancies were used to create this effect in the past. But if you look at them now with the 1.19 patch, you'll see that the loincloth is actually a rectangular shape, with the torn-off sections just a solid black colour. That's NOT good.

If you want to see a comparison, take a look at an Orc Troll Headhunter's alternate animations (ie, when he's upgraded to a Berserker) - in that case, the loincloths' transperancy is working, and thus the loincloth has a triangular shape with no flat black areas around it. That's what all the trolls' loincloths are SUPPOSED to look like.

I know for sure that this is a new pheonomenon caused by 1.19, and have pictures to support that claim.

Since I believe this now classifies it as an actual bug affecting regular, non-custom models, I've e-mailed Blizzard tech support about it. I don't know if they'll care or not, but we'll see.

 

[NsaneWallaby]

Fortunately, I have a feeling that they will care about it.

Unfortunately, I have a feeling that they will care about it in two or three months. Unless complaints start filter in from a ton of people about their woes with troll loincloths, not much will get done until the next big patch, which is quite unfortunate for any bug that junks things up for any user. I know this from past experience with other companies and patches. I had plenty of falls through the world to my death on the (dumbly) solid invisible ground below in the MMORPG Everquest due to horses, but because so few people had horses, it took about six months for them to finally fix that problem. Why so long? It didn't crash the game or significantly alter gameplay--it was merely an inconvenience that happened on rare occasions.

Now, about the model. If this is affecting regular models, then, like you said, it is definitely a Blizzard-introduced bug. And, from what it sounds like, it is likely not a texture problem, but is instead a model problem, or a deep coding problem. I'm not too sure what to do about it then, but there are always those jolly old workarounds, which gives me an idea--since the berserker alternate animation is still okay, have you tried a temporary fix by tooling with that model and using it? Or can you? Like I said, I haven't really messed with the models in Warcraft 3 yet, only the terrain, so I'm not quite sure on the specifics of Warcraft 3's model/texture editing requirements. I've often found out, though, that there's usually a workaround for something if you look hard enough, so I definitely wouldn't give up despite it being a Blizzard bug.

Like I said earlier, I will start digging around on Wednesday. Hopefully. If not then, then by Thursday I should finally have a chance. And also hopefully, Blizzard will have gotten back to you by then. But until then, I've got to keep chugging on this homework. Good luck.

 

[Soul Reaver]

Argh!

It's official, I'm an idiot!

I've figured out what the problem was... and it WASN'T the patch. It's actually all my fault!

It had to do with the fact that I reinstalled Warcraft 3 and TFT before applying it.

I thought the reinstall had kept all my options (since I told it to keep all my profiles etc when uninstalled the previous version). However, it seems it didn't keep all my options saved - specifically, it changed the model quality in the Video Options to medium, whereas before the reinstall they had been set to high.

That would explain why the model had its transperancy removed - it was being displayed on medium quality, which meant it didn't allow transperancies!

I feel extremely dumb right about now, and find it ironic that I figured it out only shortly after getting so frustrated that I e-mailed Blizzard Tech support.

Well, at least it's all working again now. Sorry for all the trouble.

 

[Sargon]

Whoa, you went a little overboard. I said I did not have the money to buy Photoshop, not that I was a giant file-ripping pirate sailing the seven cyber seas (and saying ARRR to good measure, mind you). I have Paint Shop Pro, which a friend gave to me because he knew that I did some programming and image editing, but he did not use since he had Photoshop (wealthy family, father was a computer science teacher at a campus, randomly got gifts of such things like 1 gig sticks of RAM from his father and so on). I just merely said that I do not have Photoshop, so I can not help by looking at the stuff in THAT PARTICULAR program.

By saying I have no money, I did not in any way say that I endorsed file ripping. I have not touched that stuff before, and do not plan to do it, especially after what I saw it do to another friend's computer with the viruses. Furthermore, I fully support the companies that create software. I feel good knowing that buying a product supports the company that produced it. It is what keeps our economy going.

Please do not jump on me so. I am only trying to help another person. It is rude to jump to conclusions that harm another's reputation; I would greatly appreciate it if you did not do so. And please refrain from taking my words out of context. Thanks.

Nononononono. That was me editing out something that DDRtists posted. Note the red text. DDRtists was the one who suggested the illegal acquisition of software.

I really should sign my edits next time.