Strategy Strategy Session 1- Tips and tricks.

celerisk

When Zerg floweth, life is good
> Technically speaking ... I am missing something

Yes.
The nerdiness that is the theorycrafter. He who can not fail because he's always going just "one more step" towards perfectly determining the final outcome based on the first move. Good luck.
 

Sevion

The DIY Ninja
No Celerisk, the point in our discussion is to find out whether or not you should sacrifice X unit to kill Y drone(s) and whether or not this gamble will pay off.
 

Vestras

Retired
[P] Getting the observer speed is very beneficial. 2 speed observers can do the work of 4-6 slow observers.
I second this. It is one of the best upgrades in the game. Makes it harder to snipe observers, too.

[P] Colossi are actually pretty bad. The current metagame focuses more on replaceable gateway units. Colossi makes you so immobile and are hard to replace, easily snipable.

[Z] Hotkeying your Zerglings with your Banelings and moving them around together is good versus terran, since it makes it harder for terran to focus fire big clumps of Banelings.
 

Bloodcount

Starcraft II Moderator
Staff member
>[P] Colossi are actually pretty bad. The current metagame focuses more on replaceable gateway units. Colossi makes you so immobile and are hard to replace, easily snipable.

I second this. There are soo huge metagame changes in the past months. Zergs are making deathballs, protoss are replacing units, terrans are still the same though. Seems like the huge amount of terrans early on helped figure them out faster.
 

Accname

2D-Graphics enthusiast
I dont know about the collosi being useless. What exactly is protoss supposed to do if the zerg builds up a large army of hydra mixed with some roaches and lings? Collosi seem best in my opinion to counter this.

void rays, stalkers and zealots pretty much suck against hydras. high templars might do it but they are immobile too. (but fast to be replaced)
 

Bloodcount

Starcraft II Moderator
Staff member
Archon zealot will rape it.

High templars are used to feedback and be archons nowadays.


What vestras said is 100% the situation with collosi. I sometimes use them, but... it is a gamble if he is good enough to counter them, never as an oppening too, sometimes a transition.
 

Sevion

The DIY Ninja
Archon Zealot would be destroyed by Infestor Ling Roach, wouldn't it? Which isn't all that difficult to tech switch to if you're going Roach Hydra Ling.

You should already have Ling upgrades and Hive for more upgrades which means all you have to do is pop some Infestors and hold off as much as you can.

As soon as the Infestors pop you're all good.
 

Accname

2D-Graphics enthusiast
infestors are a must have for zerg anyways.
i watched like 25 games the past few days, 7 of which zerg won. in any game zerg won infestors played a major role, in any zerg game win which infestors were not used at all the zerg lost. in the single zerg vs zerg the zerg who teched to infestors first won the game.

the instant fungal growth after training them is just epicly powerful and in one game i saw a zerg neural parasiting the archons of a protoss opponent and owning his entire army with fungal + a couple of archons.

i dont think collosi are a bad unit, i see the pros already going for them.
 

Sevion

The DIY Ninja
Colossi aren't necessarily a bad unit. In fact, they're a very, very good unit. The only problem is that they're hard to use, and if you lose them you lose the game.
 

Bloodcount

Starcraft II Moderator
Staff member
>Colossi aren't necessarily a bad unit. In fact, they're a very, very good unit. The only problem is that they're hard to use, and if you lose them you lose the game.

So, how are they a good unit if they are easy to loose, hard to use and if you loose them you loose the game ?

Nowadays collosi are good only in deathball builds which are not what they used to be (since after several pages worth of rage threads in the battle.net forums it was discovered that the deathball builds are nothing more than an end game all in push and as we know every push can be countered.



To make myself clear- they are a must have in deathballs, useful to stop some all ins (although there is usually a better choice)
 

Sevion

The DIY Ninja
Because they roast smaller units alive. And with good positioning, can be invincible.

Again, they aren't necessarily a BAD unit, just a difficult unit to master.
 

Vestras

Retired
Ling/Infestor gets SMASHED by Zealot/Archon/HT. Roach/Infestor is probably the most viable composition right now, and works good. That's why people go mass mass mass Blink Stalker (like 6 gate on 2base, which is normally seen as all in) and then just expo and build more gates. When they see Infestors, they just quick tech to HTs for Storm/Feedback. Blink Stalkers are so good it's insane.
 

Bloodcount

Starcraft II Moderator
Staff member
>Blink Stalkers are so good it's insane.

They are micro friendly, which is something rare. I just wish I had them in the early game versus terran...
 

Accname

2D-Graphics enthusiast
So you say collosi are not that good because you could be attacked off guard and lose them quickly and then lose the game therefor?
Thats basically the life of a terran. If you attack the terran army while siege tanks are unsieged or if you manage to snipe the siege tanks with like mutas when there are no rines near the terran has lost as well.
isnt that the same as the problems you described with the collosi?

i think this simply applies to every kind of artillery unit, broodlords suffer from the same difficulty.
 

black.sheep

Active Member
Hydras are bloody good if the enermy doesn't get gas based AoE. Even Blueflame helions are pretty shitty against em.
They also make pretty good drops, like marine drops, except they are slower and cost gas.
As Zerg, if you can get hydras without them getting ripped to shreds by AoE, GET THEM! They are also much better AA when compared to queens.
 
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