US News Surprise, Homeland Security Coordinates #OWS Crackdowns

[sqrage]

Remember when people were freaking out over the Patriot Act and Homeland Security and all this other conveniently ready-to-go post-9/11 police state stuff, because it would obviously be just a matter of time before the whole apparatus was turned against non-Muslim Americans when they started getting complain-y about the social injustice and economic injustice and income inequality and endless recession and permanent unemployment? That day is now, and has been for some time. But it’s also now confirmed that it’s now, as some Justice Department official screwed up and admitted that the Department of Homeland Security coordinated the riot-cop raids on a dozen major #Occupy Wall Street demonstration camps nationwide yesterday and today. (Oh, and tonight, too: Seattle is being busted up by the riot cops right now, so be careful out there.)

Rick Ellis of the Minneapolis edition of Examiner.com has this, based on a “background conversation” he had with a Justice Department official on Monday night:

Over the past ten days, more than a dozen cities have moved to evict “Occupy” protesters from city parks and other public spaces. As was the case in last night’s move in New York City, each of the police actions shares a number of characteristics. And according to one Justice official, each of those actions was coordinated with help from Homeland Security, the FBI and other federal police agencies.

[...]

According to this official, in several recent conference calls and briefings, local police agencies were advised to seek a legal reason to evict residents of tent cities, focusing on zoning laws and existing curfew rules. Agencies were also advised to demonstrate a massive show of police force, including large numbers in riot gear. In particular, the FBI reportedly advised on press relations, with one presentation suggesting that any moves to evict protesters be coordinated for a time when the press was the least likely to be present.

Well gosh, that’s exactly what happened. Good to know the FBI and DHS are “always there to help a brother out.” (This is their motto, in Latin.)

Surprise, Homeland Security Coordinates #OWS Crackdowns

Remember when people were freaking out over the Patriot Act and Homeland Security and all this other conveniently ready-to-go post-9/11 police state stuff, because it would obviously be just a matter of time before the whole apparatus was turned against non-Muslim Americans when they started...

www.wonkette.com

 

[Sevion]

I'm not surprised. Everything happened at the same time. Needs someone to coordinate that.

 

[Dan]

These occupy things are really annoying. The entire "we are unhappy for many reasons and don't share a common ideology" mob thing just never works. I suppose there are a few common thoughts in there but it's a lot of hippies who protest for the sake of protesting. My coworker went to occupy LA and researched for a local newspaper article that he was writing and told me that there were some crazies shouting "black power." >.< People like to be mad together!

I completely support their ability to protest, but I think it is useless in a lot of ways. They also need to protest in very civilized ways and accept when the police ask them to move aside or clear sidewalks, etc. I was watching the news at the gym yesterday I saw a clip of officers putting up a fence to zone an area and people were getting physical with them. Everyone loves to hate on the cops in riot gear. >.<

 

[FireCat]

They also need to protest in very civilized ways and accept when the police ask them to move aside or clear sidewalks, etc. I was watching the news at the gym yesterday I saw a clip of officers putting up a fence to zone an area and people were getting physical with them. Everyone loves to hate on the cops in riot gear. >.<

Well, I kinda agree with you. As long as protestors don't hurt anyone, destroy or being physical with the police or anyone else.
But the police should also being civilized and don't getting physical with the protesters.


[youtube]fxbowRmzetY[/youtube]

 

[Sevion]

The police have been shown to be very brutal in many cases using physical force and pepper spray on people who have seemingly done nothing to provoke them except being a part of the Occupy protests.

 

[Dan]

The police have been shown to be very brutal in many cases using physical force and pepper spray on people who have seemingly done nothing to provoke them except being a part of the Occupy protests.

If you are told to move, and as a mob you choose not to move... the cops either don't do anything (and thus don't do their job and show weakness in the city's ability to govern its people) or they force you to do what they already asked you to do. They show GREAT restraint in these situations imo.

If I was told to move I would #$(&#@#% move. Just sayin'

I mean seriously, watch the end of that video where the cops are backing up together. People tend to forget that no matter what you believe, when you are at work you do what is needed of you. This goes for cops as well as myself at my job. If you hate the prices that are on a menu, please don't yell at the associates working there (This happens a lot). Pushing around cops and not obeying what they have asked of you is no better. They have the power given by the state to do what is needed to maintain order. They are paid for by your money. In many cases people want the state to spend more money on police and fire fighters... It's all hypocritical.

So while I do support the right to protest, I don't support violence or getting edgy with authorities. On the flip side, I am of course not condoning cops taking liberties away by using unnecessary force... But I think the force used is usually exaggerated and that cops show a lot of restraint in general. I was speaking with a cop the other day at work and he said that it only really gets out of hand when they need publicity and the mobs get more aggressive because they are not seeing enough happening. I think this is probably true a lot of the time. The state is getting restless for sure, and is looking for ways to disperse the occupy protests, but you have to admit they have given them a lot of freedom to protest publicly for quite a while. It's really not cool when people put up tents in the middle of a street. Seriously...

 

[Varine]

That's not their motto... nor is this the job of the police. I have no evidence they're real cops; if I have to prove to them I'm not a danger, then they have to prove to me their a cop. And even then I'm liable to tell them to fuck off, the vast majority of them have done nothing to earn anyone's respect, let alone cooperation. So by all means, force them to make you do what they want, especially in cases where they're 'authority' is questionable: they aren't the boss of me or you, the police force shouldn't even exist. I pay their salaries unwillingly, and I won't stand by and watch them push people around just like I won't stand by and watch some random guy push someone around.

 

[Dan]

That's not their motto... nor is this the job of the police. I have no evidence they're real cops; if I have to prove to them I'm not a danger, then they have to prove to me their a cop. And even then I'm liable to tell them to fuck off, the vast majority of them have done nothing to earn anyone's respect, let alone cooperation. So by all means, force them to make you do what they want, especially in cases where they're 'authority' is questionable: they aren't the boss of me or you, the police force shouldn't even exist. I pay their salaries unwillingly, and I won't stand by and watch them push people around just like I won't stand by and watch some random guy push someone around.

Ohhh Varine we meet again. >.<

You may not stand for someone getting pushed around but a lot of people will... that's actually the point of the police in the first place. You call them when you see someone getting "pushed around" and they protect. You also miss the point that the police are doing what they are told to do by the government. You have an issue with the government then take it up with the government but not their watchdogs. It's not fair that honest men who want to serve their state need to be pushed around by a crowd of people who are shouting and getting crazy about things they have little power to change. It is quite possible that some of the officers themselves would vote for taxes on corporations etc... and have similar ideals to some of the people at the rallies.

The point is that in order to protest something legally, you need permission from the state to do so. The state is pretty tolerant about most protests, but it's getting out of line and the tension isn't good. Nothing good comes from people on edge because they have been camping out for a month.

And I want to repeat, I am all for peaceful and legal protests of all forms and against police brutality. The longer these people spend camping out, the more and more threat of violence on either side that is going to loom over the occupy protests. It's just a matter of time before some angry protesters start throwing things at the cops and are met with force, which will inevitably be recorded and taken out of context until everyone believes the police randomly started tackling people for fun.

I admit that sometimes the police are out of line though. I just don't think it's as often as people will have you believe.

 

[xPass]

Hmm, articles related to the Police force always brings us long posts

 

[Dan]

Hmm, articles related to the Police force always brings us long posts

But never from you. XD You're a man of few words and one liners. hehe.

 

[Varine]

Ohhh Varine we meet again. >.<

You may not stand for someone getting pushed around but a lot of people will... that's actually the point of the police in the first place. You call them when you see someone getting "pushed around" and they protect. You also miss the point that the police are doing what they are told to do by the government. You have an issue with the government then take it up with the government but not their watchdogs. It's not fair that honest men who want to serve their state need to be pushed around by a crowd of people who are shouting and getting crazy about things they have little power to change. It is quite possible that some of the officers themselves would vote for taxes on corporations etc... and have similar ideals to some of the people at the rallies.

No, they don't. They have no responsibility to protect you. Their job is to apprehend criminals after the fact, and nothing else. They do not have to come if you call and say you're on your deathbed and your wife and child are being raped. Very few jurisdictions require them to help you at all. However, if anything their job SHOULD be to get pushed around, they do it well enough to everyone else, we should do it back, especially for something you believe in, even if it is stupid like OWS.

The point is that in order to protest something legally, you need permission from the state to do so. The state is pretty tolerant about most protests, but it's getting out of line and the tension isn't good. Nothing good comes from people on edge because they have been camping out for a month.

No, you do not need the governments permission. And if you do, then that needs to be changed immediately and violence should be used if necessary to enforce those changes, just police use violence to enforce laws regardless of whether or not you agree with it.

And I want to repeat, I am all for peaceful and legal protests of all forms and against police brutality. The longer these people spend camping out, the more and more threat of violence on either side that is going to loom over the occupy protests. It's just a matter of time before some angry protesters start throwing things at the cops and are met with force, which will inevitably be recorded and taken out of context until everyone believes the police randomly started tackling people for fun.

That is more or less what police do. I would be quite happy if it turned into a riot though... riots aren't far from a full out revolution, which the US desperately needs.

I admit that sometimes the police are out of line though. I just don't think it's as often as people will have you believe.

Most times police are out of line. Usually they aren't physical hurting someone, but if you want to sit there and tell me police are fair and honest, you're lying to yourself (and for the record, I absolutely despise the very concept of police. If anyone it would be me making other people believe it's more often... and it's pretty damn often, it's just not always publicized).

 

[Ninva]

>>These occupy things are really annoying. The entire "we are unhappy for many reasons and don't share a common ideology" mob thing just never works.

Wow, do you really think that's what occupy is about? Don't answer, please. I won't read the response.

 

[camelCase]

One of my friends from Texas was telling me all about it and to sum it up:
"Hippies thinking they can change things after an under-qualified man was elected president."

Also:
"Said hippies are now dispersed mostly at parks, but there have been lots of robberies going on; hippies should go home, safer."

 

[Accname]

wow. You guys have some pretty crazy problems over there.

 

[UndeadDragon]

wow. You guys have some pretty crazy problems over there.

Yeah, some people tried in my local town in England. It consisted of three of them next to a tree with a tent.

 

[Dan]

>>These occupy things are really annoying. The entire "we are unhappy for many reasons and don't share a common ideology" mob thing just never works.

Wow, do you really think that's what occupy is about? Don't answer, please. I won't read the response.

Very constructive of you. I appreciate your logical and fair point of view. I do not speak of things I am ignorant about. My opinions are fair ones with basis and substance. I do not appreciate people accusing me of ignorance. Ignorance, after all, is your title, not mine. The protestors--because you seem unaware--are not all protesting the same thing. Some of them are just "there for the cause" and when asked what they believe in they can't answer. That's not surprising, but also not very promising. An effective demonstration has everyone wanting the same thing. Without a common goal you can't really hope for much to change. This is why I said what I did. Why you said what you did is a mystery.

@Varine: You allow your personal hate for a system to overcome your senses. You seem to be a propagator of anarchy. When mobs get violent they don't hurt corporations at all, they loot and pillage small businesses and hurt honest people trying to work in America. The things you say of police are truely ignorant and upsetting. In order to take up residence at specific city locations, it is necessary for a permit to protest. Protesting in general is not illegal but it must be done in peaceful ways or the state has the right to disperse it. This isn't the civil war era. Our country is well established and the state will protect itself against anarchist mobs trying to overthrow the system that has been in place.

Weather or not you agree with the current system we have, you must realize that it has been iterated on for hundreds of years now and has established itself. You have many rights that are protected and many ways to protest and influence the local and federal governments of America. If you do not like those channels, getting a mob together and pushing police around isn't going to be met with anything other than anger in return. My liberties are being protected by the police who are keeping the demonstrators from crossing lines. I do not think that anyone should be able to do whatever they want at any time. There are still rules.

Now, if you believe that we should not have a police force interfering with the protests, that is a completely fine proposition and opinion. One I believe would have already lead to looting and pillaging, but one that you may keep and have a good reason for. When your opinion starts talking about things like people should push the police around, you start treading some pretty dangerous waters. That sentiment--while you are sitting down at a computer away from the police--is a scary one indeed if you were to be face to face with the police, and have the chance to act. Anyone getting hurt is a tragedy. I do not like to hear that you condone violence to any individual. Police are not robots, they are people with families. Violence is not the answer.

police use violence to enforce laws regardless of whether or not you agree with it.

I decided I need to comment on this. The entire POINT of laws are that you may not agree with them but they exist for the greater good. How do they exist? Because Americans have voted them into existance. You may think murder is cool, but society does not. We have made laws for reasons. It is completely ok for you to want to change the laws in place, and you may start a campaign to do so, but that doesn't change the fact that they were placed with good reason in the first place. This statement just really makes me wonder about you.

 

[Varine]

>>These occupy things are really annoying. The entire "we are unhappy for many reasons and don't share a common ideology" mob thing just never works.

Wow, do you really think that's what occupy is about? Don't answer, please. I won't read the response.

So why ask?

You allow your personal hate for a system to overcome your senses. You seem to be a propagator of anarchy. When mobs get violent they don't hurt corporations at all, they loot and pillage small businesses and hurt honest people trying to work in America. The things you say of police are truely ignorant and upsetting. In order to take up residence at specific city locations, it is necessary for a permit to protest. Protesting in general is not illegal but it must be done in peaceful ways or the state has the right to disperse it. This isn't the civil war era. Our country is well established and the state will protect itself against anarchist mobs trying to overthrow the system that has been in place.

No. Anarchy is idiotic; it's what leads to tyranny. Warlords would begin popping up all over the place and quickly go to war. It would not work. You are attempting to simplify situations that should be over-complicated, if anything.

Weather or not you agree with the current system we have, you must realize that it has been iterated on for hundreds of years now and has established itself. You have many rights that are protected and many ways to protest and influence the local and federal governments of America. If you do not like those channels, getting a mob together and pushing police around isn't going to be met with anything other than anger in return. My liberties are being protected by the police who are keeping the demonstrators from crossing lines. I do not think that anyone should be able to do whatever they want at any time. There are still rules.

And needs to be re-established. I should have many other rights, as should you although you appear to be content without them, but they have long since been abolished or ignored. And you're not paying attention. Anger is what I WANT, it's what you SHOULD be. What else would we have? Happiness, joy towards a failing system? Despair and fear of what could happen, but not do anything to resolve it? Your liberties may be, but other's are not. So since we're simplifying life's complexities and you think of me as an anarchist, I'm going to think of you as an ignorant hypocrite.

Now, if you believe that we should not have a police force interfering with the protests, that is a completely fine proposition and opinion. One I believe would have already lead to looting and pillaging, but one that you may keep and have a good reason for. When your opinion starts talking about things like people should push the police around, you start treading some pretty dangerous waters. That sentiment--while you are sitting down at a computer away from the police--is a scary one indeed if you were to be face to face with the police, and have the chance to act. Anyone getting hurt is a tragedy. I do not like to hear that you condone violence to any individual. Police are not robots, they are people with families. Violence is not the answer.

I don't believe we should have a police force at all. WE can maintain your own rights and privileges, WE can ensure others are afforded the same. We would have a closer community, a better community, where people aren't held above one another. I am a person with a family. I am not different from them, but they are protected far more than I am. They are allowed to do things no one else can; they can literally kill your and your entire family and say it was a mistake, and have nothing happen. It happens all the time. As far as the United States is concerned, you are in every way less important than any police officer, and will not be afforded any of the same protections and rights while they exist.

Do you know how long it takes for the police to get to my house? Forty five minutes, apparently. I called them once because my neighbor's husband was beating the shit out of his wife. They did absolutely nothing, despite the poor girl being nothing but a fucking bruise for 'lack of evidence'. If I were to do what I wanted to him, well what SHOULD be done to him, would that not be real justice? Would that not have been more effective than the police showing up and saying "Sorry, it's policy not to help until it's too late"? What if my house got broken into, what if any of infinite possible scenarios should arise in which I can't wait for the police to get around to showing up here? They're too busy pulling kids over they think might be high or driving without a license to give a shit about whether or not something important comes up. There are areas the size of New Hampshire with maybe five cops total. Do you think they can come help you? Should we sit around, wait for the cops to come make everything better?

I decided I need to comment on this. The entire POINT of laws are that you may not agree with them but they exist for the greater good. How do they exist? Because Americans have voted them into existance. You may think murder is cool, but society does not. We have made laws for reasons. It is completely ok for you to want to change the laws in place, and you may start a campaign to do so, but that doesn't change the fact that they were placed with good reason in the first place. This statement just really makes me wonder about you.

How is the illegality of hemp for the greater good? How is banning certain cigarettes for the greater good? The vast majority of laws serve no purpose that is beneficial to anyone but the industries that they help. Society does not vote laws in; you elect people to do that. People who lie to you, who spend millions of dollars to get to that position. Who don't even have to vote for what the majority of their district wants them to. Do you even know what you're trying to convey here?

 

[Ninva]

I ask because I an activist in Occupy Chicago, and I'm really, really amused by both of you. Do you think you're convincing anyone? Bicker, bicker, blah, blah.

When the police arrested us, they did not have any legal authority but their own. Everyone who was arrested got off with no charges and were just summoned for 20 hours of community service. So what?

God, shut up.

 

[xPass]

But never from you. XD You're a man of few words and one liners. hehe.

I'm a boy! Well, I read them all anyway; learnt a lot from the both of you :3

I ask because I an activist in Occupy Chicago, and I'm really, really amused by both of you. Do you think you're convincing anyone? Bicker, bicker, blah, blah.

When the police arrested us, they did not have any legal authority but their own. Everyone who was arrested got off with no charges and were just summoned for 20 hours of community service. So what?

God, shut up.

1) They are not just talking about this incident, but the whole Police force in whole
2) Don't bring God in, it's going to bring more rage and flames

 

[Dan]

@Varine

I honestly don't understand what makes you think a cop can come murder your family and get away without charges. I also don't understand how you can say that "we can protect each other" and then fail to intervene in the situation with your neighbors.

I am not extremely happy with the systems we have in place; I never said that. If you want to campaign you should be demonstrating down there with Ninva. There are too many people in America for our votes to count as 1:1 so we do elect people to work in politics on our behalf, but that doesn't mean you have zero power and it doesn't mean you don't vote for a lot of what happens in your local government which effects the federal government.

I feel like a lot of what I say is lost. I really think that demonstrations are a great thing and that we should be angry with the things that we feel are injustices. I completely support your anger towards the current systems that you feel are corrupt. But a few things need to be said. Not everything you believe is going to work. Not everything you hate is hated by others. Also, you can't go around saying that people should push around cops. It's as crazy as saying that they should go around pushing us. Neither should happen. Cops have been given the rights to act in ways that civilians can't, but I would bet that if you put it to a majority vote that people would tend to support them than vote them down. I think you're really speaking for a minority with regards to cops in general. I believe it's a respectful position and they put themselves at risk everyday in a way you probably don't understand and most likely do not do yourself.

@Ninva: TH.N is a place to express your views, opinions, help, and support to others in a constructive way. This is not a place to come and tell people to "shut up." I would caution you to make better decisions with regards to your words in the future. As a demonstrator for the "occupy" protests, I would hope that you would choose your language more carefully in order to get your points out and understood by others without simply using name calling and blind anger and frustration... but then again you were arrested so I have a feeling you didn't go that route.

Do you think you're convincing anyone? Bicker, bicker, blah, blah.

also, this is super ironic. You protest and then say this. XD Isn't that then entire point? We should all be talking about these things if it matters. Especially you!