The 3 Pylon Block and rant

[Nigerianrulz]

So i just played a game where the toss decides to 3 pylon block my ramp unluckily for him, i left a drone near my nat to prevent any cheese. As usual toss will direct his probe back and me spotting his probe followed it and turned a 3 pylon block into a 5 pylon block. Unfortunately for him also my natural isnt finished i canceled it, threw roach warren down and stuck onto one base for a bit. The rest of the game follows as i try to roach pressure his front unsuccesfully because the cominbation of cannon of sentries is bs towards defending my early pressure and yet at the same time he still got an advantage over me despite spending over 1k early game on that 2 cannon + 3 pylon block. I cant catch up econ wise without worrying about timing pushes and cant pressure them back. Moral of the story besides mules, the 3 pylon block is the most blatant ways to win games.

I dont understand why blizzard dont just put a supply depot like in every tournaments in every map. The 3 pylon block even if i hold position on the drone and turns it into a 5 pylon and pull all my drones off still doesnt have a large enough area for all my drones to attack at the same time and with 2 cannons basically forces me on one base no matter what.

2 Things that i actually wants to address in this thread besides the rant.

The fact that zerg is always the victim of early pressure, by early i mean before or periods after natural goes down. Or victims of "cheese" such as void or banshee though those are easily countered while having no real "cheese" of its own. Also late game pressure in terms of drops from both other races, lings are really ineffective in dealing with any drop unless in large numbers. And with the coming expansion with stuff like the nexus cannon or whatever and battle hellion it will only enhance the constant pressure that the other race will put on whilst zerg will have to stay in their base even more which i just find stupid.

 

[Accname]

Its actually very easy to fend this off using drones.
You need to use the "mineral trick", that means, right click a mineral patch beyond the pylon block and all your drones will ignore pathing.
Then you move about 10 drones on top of each other using this trick to the pylons and start attacking them.
All drones hit at once and the pylon should go down really fast.

To spot it just position the first overlord you build at your natural. When you see him start to build the pylons, move your workers down, use this trick, own the pylons in an instant and have an advantage.

Zerg has many cheeses by the way. The six pool will outright kill any forge fast expand of protoss.
What i like to do also is abuse the meta-game. VS protoss, the protoss will usually go forge fast expand while the zerg goes for 3 hatches. I make it look as if i do this as well, then i go for a baneling bust.
It works like a charm, never lost with that vs a forge fast expand. Because protoss doesnt expect it, its not the "usual play".

About banshees and drops. Yeah, zerg doesnt have any good early game anti air. Queens are not cost efficient and hydras suck in most situations (and are mid-late game.)
I think zerg needs t1.5 anti-air units, like switching hydras and roaches.

 

[Bloodcount]

I suggest oppening 14 pool 17 hatch in zvp since it is the only way to deal with the 3 pylon block or have a drone patrool the bottom of your ramp.


Also, zerg have pretty strong all ins, they are just a bit more stranger than the other races.

 

[Nigerianrulz]

to both yous, since its normally only us 3 in this section anyways

I am contemplating 14 pool and 17 hatch or the stephano style of opening which deals with any sort of early pressure. But lets be honest how many zerg actually patrols a drone at the bottom. Most of the time when i open with 15 hatch which is the idra way of opening i deal with cannon or bunker pressure pretty well.

The 11/12 minute max roach is pretty lethal, however this is meta game all ins. The rant addresses early game pressure which besides 6 or 10 pool there is none and both are easily defendable.

To accname, i know of the drone trick except the fact that if the 3 pylon goes down at all you will always lose unless your opponent is really bad and dont know how to make any amount of units at all. You will always be down in econ while he has an expo, ive read from someone, or through my research found that if all 3 pylon goes down you will always have a big disadvantage.
Also a 6 pool is horrible against FFE, ive already tested a few times against my mate. We made so that he can only react when he sees my pool and still he easily defended it by just canceling everything and building on the ramp.
The bling play sounds interesting, i might give it a try. However did your opponents have 3+ sentries? cause i see forcefields be pretty usual if landed properly.

 

[Accname]

Sentries need energy to force field. And energy builds up slowly.
When they go forge fast expand they do not get early gas and their sentries are usually late.
When my blings hit they mostly have only 1 sentry, maybe 2 and a third warping in. Thats when they do not go for the immediate upgrades.
In this case i have won regardless because the energy refills too slow, i just wait for the force field to disappear and they are dead. And they know it.

And i dont understand why you think you are behind after he did a pylon block or after canceling his buildings after a six pool.
The six pool isnt as bad in terms of economy as it seems to be, you get a quick queen after all and he is unable to expand at all. Canceling forge and nexus costs you about 125 resources as well and the first pylon is lost making it 225 + supply-block.

And when you destroy his early 3 pylon block he already lost 300 minerals as well as the mining time for the probe. You only lose little mining time since you do not need very long to destroy the pylons. Usually you dont even need to destroy all 3 of them, break the contain, get an expansion. if he attempts to build the pylon again, pull 10 drones again. It all comes down to micromanagement. If you are really good at it you will come out ahead of the protoss by far.
I have seen many pro players pull that off.

Look at this replay for example:

That was even with VERY late scouting and not even perfectly executed.

 

[Nigerianrulz]

Well when you 6 pool you pretty much stay on 7 drones for a while whilst the toss is building his econ. A standard FFE scout timing would see the pool before it finishes therefore only the pylon would be done at the front. A further 150 will be spent on lings whilst you have to wait for overlord and due to 7 drones a slow rebuilding process if your lings does not do any damage at all. Whilst the toss would have almost saturated his base and made a few zealots easily deflecting any lings in his natural. How is this not behind?

I already seen that video, infact ive know how to do it already yes he lost 450 minerals if the cannon goes up but that guy in the video did it wrong... his pool is down already. However theres a few things we should note. First not all maps have a close mineral patch you can click on to stack, on some map and places e.g. bottom left corner on shakuras you can't stack at all. Secondly if he had continue attacking those building he wouldve lost about a whole minute of game time mining. Lets say it takes 1 drone to carry 5 minerals every 5 seconds. That would've been 60 minerals lost per drone whilst the toss should've walled in and started his nexus already. How is this not behind as well?

All in all, this is just a cheap way to win hence why theres supply depots on every tournament maps so why don't blizzard just implement the same...

 

[Accname]

He doesnt need to damage the other buildings. Once the cheese is fend off he can go back to mining. If the protoss player is really resilient with this and tries again, the zerg will see it with his overlord and pull 6 drones again.
Let 2 pylons stay there, go pool first, get 2 lings and they will deal with it.
The protoss player doesnt have so many minerals to wall off after a pylon block and get a nexus.
Especially if he also got a forge and tried to place cannons. Thats so much minerals wasted, the nexus will take him alot of time to build too.

And usually the scout for protoss comes after the gateway or even after the cybercore (if he doesnt go forge fast expand) otherwise after the first pylon or after the forge. You will still be able to snatch a free pylon, have map control, and the protoss will be delayed in tech as well since he has to rebuild the first pylon before he can start his gateway and cybercore at the top of his ramp. Maybe even more if he chooses to block his ramp with 3 pylons to fend off the early zerglings. He will be on the defensive while you can then start to macro up.

 

[Nigerianrulz]

But theres a cannon with the 3 pylons... Its not the build being disrupted that matters is the fact that your expo will be later than his with even workers meaning you would have to drone up pretty hard to catch up to him.

So far pretty much all toss i've faced scouts at 9/10 supply so... Thats my scout timing when i play toss. There is also ways to wall off with pylon on the low ground too btw which is even more effective. Like the 3 pylon block yes he will be delayed in tech but your econ is so shit compared to his without damage done. If 6 pool really is the perfect counter to FFE every pro wouldve used it by now wouldnt you think?

 

[Accname]

It is very effective, but only if he really goes for the forge fast expand. If you dont know it, its dangerous. Thats why the pros dont do it. Its cheesy, and they want to win. They play it safe and go for macro.
But to be honest, i have never ever seen a protoss player do a pylon block against me. Didnt happen even once.

 

[Nigerianrulz]

Well like i said before ive tested this against a buddy of mine and we have concluded it's not viable as it puts my econ behind, unless the toss is greedy and scouts late than it will be very effective however like i said a lot of toss for me, scouts at 9/10 and will spot the pool before its finish giving more than enough time for a wall in + cannon.

Its only happened to me like 4 times mostly playing against lower league and destiny makes it look easy in the video. But i remember the very next time i got 3 pylon blocked i was like yeah this is gonna be easy but turns out that spawn only works in the further patch at the natural so it wouldve taken even longer as the drones will respread itself after a bit if you dont click fast enough.

 

[Nigerianrulz]

Okay just an update. Just played against another 3 pylon block as i have been cheesed quite a few times this past week ive gone with the stephano 14 pool opening and i saw his probe and manage to set hold position prompting him to do an 4 pylon block with 2 cannons, fortunately for me my lings were already on the way and i grabbed a handful of drones and succesfully did the drone trick just in time that the cannons finished but my lings were out and it was pretty much gg from then on. So i welcome toss doing 3 pylon block because it gives me the satisfaction of beating it. yay happy time.

 

[Accname]

I told you, if you do the mineral trick right, getting a pylon down is no problem at all.