The John McCain Thread

[Miz]

If anything, pulling out of the war would make it worse because it's keeping a lot of people employed.

People in the Military are employed if theres a War or Not. So really the War is not helping us at all in the economy.

Number of Payroll Jobs

9 trillion dollars

Now days with the war and other things. We have 1.45 billion dollars of debt per day. Although this is not just the fault of the Iraq War, America has always been in debt since the Revolutionary War, and WW1/WW2. After WW2 we actually had worse debt but its creeping closer to that number each day.

Why cant people just live in peace happily ever after? Respecting and helping other people like Jesus told us to do?

1 - Because its human nature to want to rip the guts out of someone you hate.
2 - Humans can not get a long with everyone

US Debt Here

 

[Seb!]

Republicans aren't 'generally' the upper class. Most people who are republican aren't upper class at all, more of the middle class with intelligence, whereas democrats tend to just be people who either want to hate everyone else or are normal people who don't know anything about politics.

Wrong

The majority of republicans are evangelicals who really have no idea what the issues are.

 

[Varine]

Wrong

The majority of republicans are evangelicals who really have no idea what the issues are.

And the majority of Democrats are Americans who have no idea what the fuck anyone's even talking about, as long as they get to vote against people that have the ability to progress.

Now days with the war and other things. We have 1.45 billion dollars of debt per day. Although this is not just the fault of the Iraq War, America has always been in debt since the Revolutionary War, and WW1/WW2. After WW2 we actually had worse debt but its creeping closer to that number each day. People in the Military are employed if theres a War or Not. So really the War is not helping us at all in the economy.

You have to buy more shit for them when they are out of the country, which means money is being pumped into the economy to buy their stuff which means companies are making money and thus able to hire more workers. When we leave we're not going to need anywhere near as many supplies, which means far less money will be thrown around for it, which means people are probably going to be fired. And chances are someone's going to do the same thing Clinton did and downsize the military by like 30% or whatever as soon as we're out of the war because we won't need as many troops, which means a lot of people are going to be unemployed pretty damn quick.

Now days with the war and other things. We have 1.45 billion dollars of debt per day. Although this is not just the fault of the Iraq War, America has always been in debt since the Revolutionary War, and WW1/WW2. After WW2 we actually had worse debt but its creeping closer to that number each day.

Yes, I'm well aware of the deficit, and it's not because of the war. This really is a pretty useless statement, actually.

Now days with the war and other things. We have 1.45 billion dollars of debt per day. Although this is not just the fault of the Iraq War, America has always been in debt since the Revolutionary War, and WW1/WW2. After WW2 we actually had worse debt but its creeping closer to that number each day. People in the Military are employed if theres a War or Not. So really the War is not helping us at all in the economy.

You have to buy more shit for them when they are out of the country, which means money is being pumped into the economy to buy their stuff which means companies are making money and thus able to hire more workers. When we leave we're not going to need anywhere near as many supplies, which means far less money will be thrown around for it, which means people are probably going to be fired. And chances are someone's going to do the same thing Clinton did and downsize the military by like 30% or whatever as soon as we're out of the war because we won't need as many troops, which means a lot of people are going to be unemployed pretty damn quick.

Now days with the war and other things. We have 1.45 billion dollars of debt per day. Although this is not just the fault of the Iraq War, America has always been in debt since the Revolutionary War, and WW1/WW2. After WW2 we actually had worse debt but its creeping closer to that number each day.

Yes, I'm well aware of the deficit, and it's not because of the war. This really is a pretty useless statement, actually.

People are dying, YOUNG people...
No war-to-save-economy can be a valid excuse for the lost lives in Iraq.

If you're not willing to have to die for something that you're told to do, it doesn't matter what, then you should stay the hell away from the military. Everyone that enlisted was well aware that they may die while in service. It's what happens in war, it's just part of life. Get over it.

Its all business.. Why do you think they went in Iraq in first place? They used the fear of terrorism as their key to power. Its money and business and oil and power all over again.. And its making me sick..

Because so much oil is being exported from Iraq now....

 

[Seb!]

Although this is not just the fault of the Iraq War, America has always been in debt since the Revolutionary War

No we had a surplus in the Clinton years.

Clinton presided over the longest period of peace-time economic expansion in American history, which included a balanced budget and a reported federal surplus.[6][7] Based on Congressional accounting rules, at the end of his presidency Clinton reported a surplus of $559 billion.

SOURCE

 

[punwisp]

Varine stop being so arrogant and read the facts.

 

[Miz]

No we had a surplus in the Clinton years.

What I mean to say is. We have had debt before, so its not like this hasn't happened. But true we have been in better times :thdown:

But I didn't know that
Plus Repo XD

 

[Varine]

No we had a surplus in the Clinton years.

Not because of Clinton.

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=5656

Punwisp: Apperantly unlike you, I read both sides of issues, instead of just the one that makes democrats look good, and am able to figure out which one is true based off knowledge I have of the event. I have some of the most liberal professors for my political science classes who push pretty much only liberal, anti-Bush, anti-Republican 'facts' at us, so don't try and tell me I'm some ignorant douchebag, maybe because you disagree and feel like rationalizing the fact that your beliefs on issues differ from others (sometimes others with more knowledge about the issue) which is just a terrible thing so they must be arrogant and don't look at the apperant 'facts' which prove them wrong regardless of the countless other (actual) facts that prove them right, who refuses to look at anything save the viewpoints that I agree with. I may be a douchebag, but I spend the majority of the free time I have either talking to my fiance or going over political bullshit. So why don't you stop being so arrogant and look at actual facts?

 

[Magentix]

If you're not willing to have to die for something that you're told to do, it doesn't matter what, then you should stay the hell away from the military. Everyone that enlisted was well aware that they may die while in service. It's what happens in war, it's just part of life. Get over it.

If you got your head out of your ass for a split second there, you could do a little research and find out that the army recruiters have so much success because they recruit young people who can't afford college with the promise of paying their school money after they did ONE term in Iraq.

Instead, these kids die in some desert or lose a limb or two, making it virtually impossible for them to actually go for that college education that they enlisted for.

If they do manage to get out alive, they get sent back for a second or even third term in hell.

That's right, that's your almighty-can't-do-anything-wrong Republicans, lying to young Americans, effectively getting them killed.


On top of that: "It's what happens in war, it's just part of life. Get over it."
What kind of sick bastard are you? Honestly, I'd like to see you go and tell that to the parents of yet another teenage war casualty. These kids didn't sign up because they wanted to die for their country, they signed up for a better future... A future which they will never get to see now.


And finally: There's no point arguing with you, Varine, since all you do is throw the same arguments over and over, accusing pro-Democrat people of being single-minded, blindfolded fools; while the only one who is being truly single-minded here, is you.

In your eyes, the Republicans are some sort of gods, who decended up on this earth to rid us of the horrible pests that we call Democrats.

What's next? Claiming Watergate was a good thing?

 

[Seb!]

What's next? Claiming Watergate was a good thing?

Voters, disgusted by Nixon's actions, became thoroughly disillusioned with the Republican Party. In that election, the Democrats gained five seats in the Senate and a remarkable forty-nine in the House

SOURCE

:thup:

 

[punwisp]

Not because of Clinton.

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=5656

Punwisp: Apperantly unlike you, I read both sides of issues, instead of just the one that makes democrats look good, and am able to figure out which one is true based off knowledge I have of the event. I have some of the most liberal professors for my political science classes who push pretty much only liberal, anti-Bush, anti-Republican 'facts' at us, so don't try and tell me I'm some ignorant douchebag, maybe because you disagree and feel like rationalizing the fact that your beliefs on issues differ from others (sometimes others with more knowledge about the issue) which is just a terrible thing so they must be arrogant and don't look at the apperant 'facts' which prove them wrong regardless of the countless other (actual) facts that prove them right, who refuses to look at anything save the viewpoints that I agree with. I may be a douchebag, but I spend the majority of the free time I have either talking to my fiance or going over political bullshit. So why don't you stop being so arrogant and look at actual facts?

Lol, I'm sorry but I really don't feel that way, I'm not arrogant, i don't think of myself higher then others, Nor am I being ignorant. If someone is being these two things, its you. I've been reading this entire thread, all the links that are given, so YES I am reading both sides of the issue... Plus I'm only calling you these things based one what you have been typing, which not only are you ignoring other facts and telling them there wrong, your thinking way to highly of yourself, so get your head out of your ass, and read the facts.
It's also funny you tried turning things around, which you failed at. You fail

 

[Miz]

Yes, I'm well aware of the deficit, and it's not because of the war. This really is a pretty useless statement, actually.

Thats 600 Billion dollars we could be using for something else.

If you're not willing to have to die for something that you're told to do, it doesn't matter what, then you should stay the hell away from the military. Everyone that enlisted was well aware that they may die while in service. It's what happens in war, it's just part of life. Get over it.

You do know, most of the soldiers feel as if forgotten by their government. I am sorry but I don't believe anyone has completely lost the fear of dieing. Solider or not.

 

[Lord_Phoenix]

The Democratic Party Ideals favor more to Raising Minimum wage, lowering College education, universal health care. These ideals are more favored by the Average American Family...

Because of the raise of minimum wage, college people can't get jobs since it would cost businesses too much. Also, Raising taxes on business owners to pay for universal health care wouldn't exactly make them hire more people, am I right?

Yet another thing, exactly who are "Average American Families"? How do you define average? I personally don't know an "Average American Family" myself.

Really, I can't stand the Republican party, less then McCain. Unless they raise there Environment protection standards and sign the Kyoto Protocol Agreement.

This just shows the ignorance of democrats. They hear constantly on the news, "Oh no, global warming!" And they believe it without looking up any of the facts themselves

http://www.accf.org/publications/testimonies/test-impactkyoto-march25-1999.html
This paper shows the effects of Kyoto on the economy if we accepted.

Also, if you bother to look up global warming ANYWHERE, you'll realize that WATER VAPOR is the main source of global warming, not CO2. http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/greenhouse_data.html

Also, CO2 does not reflect/absorb the radiation that causes global warming at all anyways.
http://pubs.acs.org/subscribe/journals/ci/31/special/may01_viewpoint.html

Theres your global warming for you.

If you're not willing to have to die for something that you're told to do, it doesn't matter what, then you should stay the hell away from the military. Everyone that enlisted was well aware that they may die while in service. It's what happens in war, it's just part of life. Get over it.

Really it's more about are you willing to die for something greater than yourself than, "are you willing to die when your told to."

Because so much oil is being exported from Iraq now....

Actually, Bush wants to allow offshore drilling now.

If you got your head out of your ass for a split second there, you could do a little research and find out that the army recruiters have so much success because they recruit young people who can't afford college with the promise of paying their school money after they did ONE term in Iraq.

Why don't you do the research then and prove us wrong? My one friend is in Iraq right now. So far he has not had any injuries to my knowledge.

Instead, these kids die in some desert or lose a limb or two, making it virtually impossible for them to actually go for that college education that they enlisted for.

They're 18. They're adults. They made their own decision to join up and fight for their country.

If they do manage to get out alive, they get sent back for a second or even third term in hell.

So all those army people I saw at my college this year weren't fighting?

That's right, that's your almighty-can't-do-anything-wrong Republicans, lying to young Americans, effectively getting them killed.

It's better than the "oh everyone loves each other" liberals who will be the first screaming for an army when our borders get breeched.

What kind of sick bastard are you? Honestly, I'd like to see you go and tell that to the parents of yet another teenage war casualty. These kids didn't sign up because they wanted to die for their country, they signed up for a better future... A future which they will never get to see now.

It's the "kid" that signed up. It's the "kid" who understood the possibility of death. If the parent's truely understood, they would be proud of their son doing what he believed it was right. Yes, it is horrible he died, but we don't live forever anyways, and (since I believe in God) he is now in Heaven and much happier up there than we will ever be down on earth.

And finally: There's no point arguing with you, Varine, since all you do is throw the same arguments over and over, accusing pro-Democrat people of being single-minded, blindfolded fools; while the only one who is being truly single-minded here, is you.

It's not his fault you people bring up the same problems every time. If you want to disprove him, attack his facts, not the person. Attacking the person only shows that he's actually right since you didn't dig up any contrary evidence to what he put right in front of your face.

SOURCE

:thup:

isn't it interesting how you people always use wikipedia? If it's not good enough for a high-school or college level, it's certainly not good enough for me. GIVE ME A LEGITIMATE SOURCE!

 

[Magentix]

Read my previous post again, clearly you didn't catch half of it.

They're 18. They're adults. They made their own decision to join up and fight for their country.

They didn't really choose, they just took "(one of) the only option(s)" they have.

It's better than the "oh everyone loves each other" liberals who will be the first screaming for an army when our borders get breeched.

If your Republicans stopped intervening in every fucking country they dislike, you wouldn't have to worry about someone trying to breech your borders.

It's the "kid" that signed up. It's the "kid" who understood the possibility of death. If the parent's truely understood, they would be proud of their son doing what he believed it was right. Yes, it is horrible he died, but we don't live forever anyways, and (since I believe in God) he is now in Heaven and much happier up there than we will ever be down on earth.

I, for one, do not believe in God. So if some twat came up to my door, telling me my son got killed in a useless war and that he's much happier off now in a so-called Heaven, I'd slap him...

It's not his fault you people bring up the same problems every time. If you want to disprove him, attack his facts, not the person. Attacking the person only shows that he's actually right since you didn't dig up any contrary evidence to what he put right in front of your face.

Actually, he's the one who keeps attacking Democratic-minded people by telling them how ignorant they are...

So all those army people I saw at my college this year weren't fighting?

Did I ever say -all- of them get sent for 3 terms? I just insinuated it happens way too often, not all the time.



And not all Democratic-minded people are "oh I love the world" kind of tossers. I do support action against other countries... when necessary.
Bush's shitty excuse for invading Iraq wasn't even close to a good reason.

 

[JerseyFoo]

They're 18. They're adults. They made their own decision to join up and fight for their country.

And yet they recruit under-18's in my school during lunch... passing out meaningless gifts to those who do sign up and making it out to be a 'contest of strength'.

Apparently I exist in two places as far as the government is concerned. One is in a run-down city, one is rural. At the rural residence I receive tons of college junk mail, at the inner-city residence I receive tons of military junk mail, but yet I am the same person.

They target kids in desperate situations who don't know what to do. Their objective is not to give them a choice, but to make the military seem like their only option.

I remember the 90's being good, I remember the 00's sucking. Obama wants change; McCain wants war - I'll go with Obama. And good president or not, he'll most definitely be the 'most interesting' one.

And the majority of Democrats are Americans who have no idea what the fuck anyone's even talking about, as long as they get to vote against people that have the ability to progress.

The majority of Democrats are in population centers. The majority of Republicans are in rural areas. That is not an opinion, that is fact, however you interpret it is your own. I'd say that would make Democrats more open-minded, or perhaps more susceptible to propaganda. Perhaps it's because population-centers have many more immigrants and poor, but yet they are people too. People are so much more friendlier in the city...

And the majority of Democrats are Americans, right! Your statement is a tad rash though.

 

[punwisp]

And yet they recruit under-18's in my school during lunch... passing out meaningless gifts to those who do sign up and making it out to be a 'contest of strength'.

Apparently I exist in two places as far as the government is concerned. One is in a run-down city, one is rural. At the rural residence I receive tons of college junk mail, at the inner-city residence I receive tons of military junk mail, but yet I am the same person.

They target kids in desperate situations who don't know what to do. Their objective is not to give them a choice, but to make the military seem like their only option.

I remember the 90's being good, I remember the 00's sucking. Obama wants change; McCain wants war - I'll go with Obama. And good president or not, he'll most definitely be the 'most interesting' one.

I agree 100%, my sisters husband had to go to Iraq because he thought it was his only option to go to college, or pay for anyway. At my last school there were recruiters all over, they gave away badges, stickers, backpacks, shirts, even socks... And they tell you how fun it would be and how much money you get and so on with the bullshit.

I for one am not dying for this current government, maybe with the next president, then maybe I would die for a government worth dying for.

This is a endless argument, Almost half of you call each other ignorant and this and that, and are arrogant, very arrogant at times. Saying each other doesn't have a legit source, or keeps repeating arguments. You all are, get over it and just sit down and LISTEN, don't be ignorant and defend each side, otherwise there is no point to this thread.

 

[JerseyFoo]

^But people like to argue! They really ought to ban recruiting in schools though.

Its hard for a Democrat to address anything a republican cares about.

Simply that.

I really wish republicans would stop using 'lower taxes' and 'tax breaks' as points though. What if they put the money into helping the entire nation, like getting a Fusion plant done or making gold-generation viable. Of course that would be 'socialism'... ( yes I'm aware the examples I gave don't really apply )

 

[TheDamien]

I'm only addressing the parts of this post that I particularly disagree with.

Also, if you bother to look up global warming ANYWHERE, you'll realize that WATER VAPOR is the main source of global warming, not CO2. http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/greenhouse_data.html

Water vapour has an entirely different dynamic to other greenhouse gases. Most importantly, water vapour condenses to rain. There is no such mechanism where the other important greenhouse gases are concerned. Carbon dioxide will accumulate and remain in the atmosphere for hundreds of years. Water vapour will not.

You can read more, if you want.

Also, CO2 does not reflect/absorb the radiation that causes global warming at all anyways.
http://pubs.acs.org/subscribe/journals/ci/31/special/may01_viewpoint.html

If you had actually read the paper (yes, the one you linked), you would find it makes no such claim at all.

If the parent's truely understood, they would be proud of their son doing what he believed it was right.

This is unfettered rubbish. Plenty of serial killers were doing what they believed was right, but I wouldn't expect their parents to be proud of them for it. Sometimes, what a person believes is "right" is actually wrong.

Yes, it is horrible he died, but we don't live forever anyways, and (since I believe in God) he is now in Heaven and much happier up there than we will ever be down on earth.

This argument, too, is so generic that it could be used to justify any combination of suicide, murder and genocide.

It's not his fault you people bring up the same problems every time. If you want to disprove him, attack his facts, not the person. Attacking the person only shows that he's actually right since you didn't dig up any contrary evidence to what he put right in front of your face.

Wrong.

isn't it interesting how you people always use wikipedia? If it's not good enough for a high-school or college level, it's certainly not good enough for me. GIVE ME A LEGITIMATE SOURCE!

What makes you think Wikipedia is that much worse than other sources? References are listed at the bottom of each article - that alone holds it to a higher standard of reliability.

EDIT:

What if they put the money into helping the entire nation, like getting a Fusion plant done or making gold-generation viable. Of course that would be 'socialism'... ( yes I'm aware the examples I gave don't really apply )

Could've given better examples, then. I don't think they have yet managed to build a fusion reactor that produces a surplus of energy.

 

[Miz]

This just shows the ignorance of democrats. They hear constantly on the news, "Oh no, global warming!" And they believe it without looking up any of the facts themselves

http://www.accf.org/publications/testimonies/test-impactkyoto-march25-1999.html
This paper shows the effects of Kyoto on the economy if we accepted.

Also, if you bother to look up global warming ANYWHERE, you'll realize that WATER VAPOR is the main source of global warming, not CO2. http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/greenhouse_data.html

Also, CO2 does not reflect/absorb the radiation that causes global warming at all anyways.
http://pubs.acs.org/subscribe/journals/ci/31/special/may01_viewpoint.html

Theres your global warming for you.

1: I am not a democrat ATM... I am an Independent.

2: CO2 Is not the only gas causing Global Warming, Methane and many more. Without this CO2 layer our world would be a frozen waste land. So the CO2 is needed to keep the earth warm with the Green House Effect, but too much of this CO2 more of the sunlight is being trapped in causing warmth.

As you see too, with this chart

Global Temperature goes up with the Carbon Dioxide Level

 

[BlowingKush]

These arguments are going to go on forever, so I am going to make a few points and not respond to this thread again.

I am fucking tired of this country being ran by old, wealthy, white men.
Just because old age brings with it experience and wisdom doesn't mean thier views are not fundamentally flawed.

Old age brings with it a degree of stubborness. They use thier lifelong experience as an argument to justify thier postions, although many of thier decisions were entirely illogical.

Oil. There is not one argument that I have heard from any Republican in the history of politics that I would agree with. There is absolutely no reason human society should continue to consume a resource that is limited.
Oil WILL end. It is simple as that. To waste time and trillions on an 1800's energy technology is not logical, when we could be researching and developing alternative energy. Arguments that the technology isnt advanced enough, it is too expensive, or that it can't produce the energy requirements that society demands is total, complete, and utter bullshit. Society just doesnt have the will power or unity (yet) to make it happen. What about the far possibily that we someday might need the raw high potency energy of oil to combat near Earth objects?

If only the US would unite in a massive Manhatten Project , a R&D program and construction program on a grand scale, such that we could cover hundereds of square miles in solar, or wind, or thermal, we could create massive amounts of energy, and still have leftover to sell.

200 square miles of thin film, high efficiency, solar modules will supply the US with all it's energy needs. Consider how many square miles are coverd by the US Intersate system alone.

Republicans would rather spend our money and efforts on body kevlar, and Bradley fighting vehicles.

Obama may not be your president of choice. You may disagree with his church, or his policy, or the fact that he doesnt wear his fucking flag pin every 9 seconds, or your just a straight up racist, but I have no doubt that he is the only individual with the vision, and charisma, that could lead this country even 1 step closer to the society that I dream of.

 

[punwisp]

At this point, both sides show how this argument is going
http://arnolddebate.ytmnd.com/

Sorry for going off topic but this argument will go on forever just like this