The right to bear arms

ElderKingpin

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During government class we got off track and started to talk about gun rights, since i go to a private school, all of us agreed on one thing.

Guns dont kill people. People kill people

Ok.. down to the point

The right to bear arms was in the original bill of rights. I havnt done too much research, but all i know is. It is not bad to not bear arms. (I think its Biden thats against right to bear arms?) I dont know whats bad about it, you use it for self-defense

As stated by wikipedia.

In the United States, the right to keep and bear arms is often presented in the context of military service and the broader right of self defense.

In other words, if you use it for self-defense, you might get sent to jail, its a controversial aspect of it, whether or not it is for self-defense. Its stated that you can retaliate only if you are attacked first. Even in self-defense you cant kill them, which would probably be the case if you used a gun.

In Virginia, its legal to carry in public, as long as its clearly visible and you are 18, which is good since without a gun you cant fight a guy with a gun. (of course, you can use a samurai sword). Which is the context of "right to bear arms" its the right to bear any kind of weapon
 

Seb!

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Guns dont kill people. People kill people

Nah, bullets kill people.

I havnt done too much research,

Pretty much sums it up.

I am not in any way claiming to know what the framers had in mind when they wrote the Bill of Rights, but they sure didn't know that private citizens would be walking around with concealed handguns and automatic weapons. These things weren't even invented yet! It clearly says in Amendment two that:

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

It's talking about a "WELL-REGULATED MILITIA". You can argue all you want for gun rights, but it is a complete joke to use the Constitution for that effect.
 

Whitesock

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And the old paradox comes up again. Either you outlaw guns and let only people who would illegally own guns have guns, or you allow legal gun purchasing so that everyone with a good record can have a gun along with those who would illegally have a gun.

So either you can defend yourself or can't. Outlawing gun ownership just makes criminals more powerful over the common person.
 

Varine

And as the moon rises, we shall prepare for war
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It's talking about a "WELL-REGULATED MILITIA". You can argue all you want for gun rights, but it is a complete joke to use the Constitution for that effect.

And as that militia is paramilitary, it will be represented by civilians. The point of such militia is a local defense in case of an attack or invasion in which the US Military is not capable of defending you. In order for them to be effective, civilians such as you and I need to be able to bear weaponry that will effectively combat whoever would be attacking us, who just based off my own assumptions would have automatic weapons as AK's aren't that hard to get. So yes, it can be used to defend such as stance given that most everything passed through Congress now is based off interpretation, not literally written.

You can also use the Declaration of Independence, as it states that the populace has the right and is obligated to revolt against an unruly government. Should it extend to that, it would be understandable for civilians to have to go to war against the military. In order to do that, we would need to have weapons that can equate to that. Because I seriously doubt that if I can only have shitty little guns that don't pierce Type I armor or whatever the Brady Bill called for, I'm going to be able to fight someone with an ACOG sight on a basic little M16.

I'm not advocating that anyone should be able to walk into a gunshop and walk out with a JAVELIN or something, but I don't feel the government should have access to weapons that not one civilian is allowed to touch. There is no reason that I shouldn't be able to have a M16 or something that can shoot automatically, not because I shoot people with it, I just like to shoot them, I think it's fun.

IDK whitesock. Canada has strict gun control and our crime rate is way lower.

That's because you don't catch anyone doing crime.

When they passed the gun laws in Australia, within a year homicide was up over three percent, assault was up 8.6 percent, and armed robbery was up 44 percent. In Victoria, homicide went up like 300 percent.

All gun control is going to do is allow the government to encroach even more on our lives. And it would probably start a civil war because my house is going to become a god damn fortress if that bill passes... and I'm moving to Montana because they would secede.
 

Seb!

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There have been studies done on this, and it is a RARE event where someone's legal possession of a higher firearm prevents or hinders a crime.

A gun in a house is more likely to kill someone residing in the house accidently than it is to prevent a crime.
 

Whitesock

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IDK whitesock. Canada has strict gun control and our crime rate is way lower.

I also doubt that is the only factor.

A gun in a house is more likely to kill someone residing in the house accidently than it is to prevent a crime.

That is because the gun was mishandled. Did you know firing ranges that are properly managed are some of the safest places you can be? This is because they're are so many failsafes for gun handling.
 

Varine

And as the moon rises, we shall prepare for war
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There have been studies done on this, and it is a RARE event where someone's legal possession of a higher firearm prevents or hinders a crime.

No, but if I'm going to be fighting for my life because we've been invaded, I think I would fair a hell of a lot better with a .50 cal than a .22 handgun. I'm not arguing for the fact that I'm going to stop someone breaking into my house with my huge ass rifle, I'm going to worst case scenario, because that's what you need to focus on. Shit happens, everything ends, and with the state of affairs in the world right now, is it really that out of the question to have a war being fought on US soil?
 

Genkora

Frog blast the vent core!
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There is a distinct difference in the crime rates between countries that allow it and those that don't. When people illegally get their hands on guns, how do you suppose they do it? Waltz into the black market and ask to buy one gun? How many petty muggers or corner store burglars even know how to buy guns from sources like that? No, they steal them from gun stores or people who legally have guns. If gun ownership is illegal, it is also much harder for criminals to get guns.

In any case, your not going to die in a gun fight, heart disease or car accidents will get you first. Also, most murders happen within the family, odd as it might sound, and you probably won't even see it coming.
 

Bloodcount

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>Nah, bullets kill people.

not really. Bad temper kills people.

IMHO everyone should be able to have a gun. You don't know when some drunk/drugged guy might try to rape you(if you are a girl)

or when some people might try to kill you/rob you (if you are a guy)

I do beleave, however that only close combat arms should be givable.

With them you can make savere dmg, but it is uncommon to kill someone (unless you really want to kill him and go for the head/throat)

The reason why firearms shouldn't be given is that with one shot in the chest the person is as good as dead (let's fase it. Where ever you are the first aid, takes it's time before coming)

So close combat: Yes

Ranged: No, no.
 

Samael88

Evil always finds a way
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I would like to add something to BloodCounts previous post, if I may.

If you say close combat, do you mean swords and other medieval weapons as well?
I think it would be pretty cool to walk into a bar with a sword holster containing a sword on the back:D

The thing I would like to add is this:
Rule of thumb! No person is allowed to wear a weapon where the blade/edge is longer than your thumb, thus decreasing the risk of actually killing someone;)

That is just for it to make sense:)

And also, it does not rid the risk, it just brings it down.

Just to see if I get what this means:
If I where to say in the US, and I was a US citizien. It would be perfectly legal to have a broadaxe strapped over my back pretty much in the same way as a wow character does?

Edit: I just have to add, in Sweden we are allowed to take a hunting license, and that gives us right to take weapon licenses.
For every weapon we then need to take a license. Say I have a glock and a shotgun, then I need to have licenses for both of them.
And when we have weapons at home we got 2 alternatives that I am aware of:
A. Pick the weapon apart and store it in a standard safe.
B. Buy a special kind of safe that is way more expensive and keep weapon in that.

When they are transported they are not allowed to be loaded(the magazin should not even be in the weapon), and if I recall correct they should prefferably be plucked down into peaces if possible(not a must to do tho).
 

Zakyath

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>IMHO everyone should be able to have a gun. You don't know when some drunk/drugged guy might try to rape you(if you are a girl)

And then he's able to shoot you if you do something about it :p
 

Bloodcount

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Well, I was thinking that only short combat weapons such as knifes should be givable to everyone.

Still, when you get slashed, jabbed or shot, the pain is enough to make your aim as bad as the overall concept of Twilight.
 
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When they passed the gun laws in Australia, within a year homicide was up over three percent, assault was up 8.6 percent, and armed robbery was up 44 percent. In Victoria, homicide went up like 300 percent.

The year after John Bowe won the ATCC championship in Australia, homicides in Tasmania went up a whopping 800%. Racing should clearly be outlawed.
 

Samael88

Evil always finds a way
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Well, I was thinking that only short combat weapons such as knifes should be givable to everyone.

Still, when you get slashed, jabbed or shot, the pain is enough to make your aim as bad as the overall concept of Twilight.

That's sounds like a reasonable thing.
But you are wrong about one thing tho.
I have been stabbed in the leg, and I can say that it did not hurt until a few hours after the incident. I even ran from the location and I was well aware of my wound. There is so much adrenaline going thru the body during the whole thing that you feel basically indestrutible;)
 

Varine

And as the moon rises, we shall prepare for war
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The year after John Bowe won the ATCC championship in Australia, homicides in Tasmania went up a whopping 800%. Racing should clearly be outlawed.

Because racing is related to homicide? The two are irrelevant events that have no influence on each other. And give me a reference.
 
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Because racing is related to homicide? The two are irrelevant events that have no influence on each other.

Now you see how easily statistics can be abused. If you had looked at the original figures for violent crime in Australia, you would see that the increases you cited were statistically insignificant or misleading.

And give me a reference.

My reference is the fact that the Port Arthur massacre occurred in 1996, leading to a disproportionate figure for homicides for that year. You can see this represented here.
 
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Regardless of the actual effect of the buyback on crime, it was wrong of you to cite statistics out of context.

Note that the page you linked to states that the buyback does not appear to have had any effect on homicides or assaults. Certainly not the negative effect that your misleading statistics were suggestive of.
 
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