TSA scanners

[Slapshot136]

should we have the "new" TSA scanners in airports and should everyone be strip searched by them?

here are some things to look at first

1. the machines CAN save and transmit the images
source

2. the TSA's own statements on saving/sending pictures

Advanced imaging technology cannot store, print, transmit or save the image, and the image is automatically deleted from the system after it is cleared by the remotely located security officer.

so now I ask, how can a person remotely view it if it isn't transmitted? how can a person delete it if it isn't saved?

3. the machines break child porn laws, and show things to the extend of breast implants and other things that would be embarrassing to have other people know about
source

4. some excellent points here about the potential for abuse, for example, what about a celebrity going through the scanner, and then someone leaking a "naked" picture of them? even if it gets them fired, how much damage would that do to the celebrity?

5. how effective are they at even catching bomb components? not very
http://boingboing.net/2010/01/22/naked-airport-scanne.html
and they also miss 2x12-inch razor blades

6. opt out? not so much
http://consumerist.com/2010/09/pregnant-traveler-tsa-screeners-bullied-me-into-full-body-scan.html

7. even if you are successful in opting out.. fail

from the above link

"What do you want to do, get blown up by a goddamn Arab at 30,000 feet or we get to see your private parts? It's up to you, the ball's in your park," head of the TSA's scanning department, Rodney Schroeder, told CNN.

8. more TSA fail - really, if they masturbate to these pictures, isn't something wrong?

9. it seems like viewing the pictures can lead some TSA workers into raping 14 year old girls

10. while pilots may not be, members of congress are exempt from the scanners

11. - you can't just leave the airport either

12. TSA pat-down leaves bladder cancer survivor covered in urine

 

[sqrage]

#8 is a satire website.

 

[esb]

Really? Who the hell cares. Out of the thousands of people that go through everyday, who's gonna care or remember about you?

 

[sqrage]

Really? Who the hell cares. Out of the thousands of people that go through everyday, who's gonna care or remember about you?

Yea keep saying that, as long as they're stripping everyone's rights and privacy, not just yours, it's ok, right? :banghead:

 

[esb]

I've been pat searched. It's part of the procedure. If I had to go through airport travel, I'd just go through the scanner. I don't speak for others, I speak for myself.

Want rights privacy? Take your own transportation.

 

[Dr.Jack]

I personally believe that in times like these, people can, and should, do some sacrifices for international safety. The damage to the privacy is minor, honestly, no one cares about you private areas. Plus there is no way to identify someone from these images, and I'm pretty sure despite the sources posted images get deleted. On the other hand, these machines can greatly help in catching, or at least scaring terrorists.

Anyway, very interesting and well written debate. Thanks a lot Slapshot136!! :thup:

 

[sqrage]

I've been pat searched. It's part of the procedure. If I had to go through airport travel, I'd just go through the scanner. I don't speak for others, I speak for myself.

Want rights privacy? Take your own transportation.

The average person can't afford a private jet and America is supposed to be based on rights, freedom and privacy. I personally don't care if they see me naked, I wouldn't even care if it was a high resolution image of me in full color, but that's beside the point. The point is that it is blatant infringement of freedom and is completely unnecessary. If terrorists want to bomb an airplane they will, this wont stop them, they're not stupid.

And as was stated in the comments section of one of the posted articles, the only time there was even an event where terrorists caused death in an airplane that was 10 years ago, and it was caused by the airplane itself, not a bomb...

Dr.Jack, do you really think a jihadist terrorist can be scared of anything? They're willing to suicide bomb for their country/religion/terrorist organization, I highly doubt they'll be scared of getting screened, and if they get caught they can just set off the bomb in the airport, it'll still result in casualties and more loss of American freedoms, a win for them.

 

[esb]

It's not just about terrorists or bombs though, contrary to popular belief. Drug traffacking and weapons also happens. And while most of it occures outside airlines, airlines are private companies.

You can't have freedom, rights, privacy, and safety all at a time. You have to give up one for the other.

 

[Slapshot136]

On the other hand, these machines can greatly help in catching, or at least scaring terrorists.

they don't seem to be that effective at that though.. seriously, if they don't catch a foot of sharp steel or bomb components, what is their benefit?

and as far as other drugs/weapons/etc. - those would be inside the cargo hold, wouldn't they? (if they were going to be transported via air, which is also less practical I think)

anyone have comments as far as the senators not having to go through them? I don't really see it as fair, atleast not when they travel commercially like other people, I doubt that the policies would be this bad if they (the lawmakers) were forced to go through this as well

and for those of you who say you don't care, what about others who go through them? is it really OK to make people cry/urinate over this?

Want rights privacy? Take your own transportation.

so privacy is only for those with the money for private jets?

seriously, this is the U.S. we are talking about, not some communist country where the government is a control freak - I expect privacy unless there is a specific reason otherwise (I.E. a search warrant or something similar)

 

[BlowingKush]

America is SUPPOSE to be based on Rights, Privacy, and Freedom.

But those are long gone.I have preached this many times on this site. What is funny is that people still 'act' offended when shit like body scanners are introduced, then 6 months later they argue the complete opposite. Typical Americans.
The people who are against body scanners are the same dumbasses who cry about poor security when some Muslim male decides to pack his ass with C-4

We live in a police country now. Why? Because our privacy slowly has been nickled and dimed from us over many years and that is exactly what has happened. Once again, right wing, Palin loving bible bangers slowly legislating thier way of life.

Americans are just like the old analogy of slowly boiling a frog, as compared to dropping it into already boilng water.

You know , the little things like body scans, public survelliance, tap and rap tactics from our police, our freedom to smoke where we want, say what we want, drink where we want, all slowly but surely being regulated.

Americans are always willing to give up a little bit of freedom and privacy in return for some govt policy or promise. Especially todays youth who spend thier entire lives on fucking facebook such that they have an avenue to forcibly make themselves seem important.

I could go on and on but I would just be accused of being a liberal or something,
plus I gave up this fight a long time ago.

 

[Jedimindtrixxx]

i wouldnt like it but id go through it anyway if i wanted to fly.
oh btw i missclicked and accidentally hit the pat down i cant change it though D:

 

[thewrongvine]

It won't change anything.
The more people try to control, the more people will fight.
It's pointless, but I don't really care.

~Hai-Bye-Vine~

 

[Dr.Jack]

Let me rephrase that. I didn't mean scaring them off, but it would make life much harder on them. Think about it. Your luggage is scanned thoroughly, the one that is sent to the cargo and the one you take with you to the airplane. Where else would you hide bombs? On yourself! These machines make it pretty much impossible, meaning the options of harming an airplane are almost gone without the use of super technology.

It is true that it has been a while since there has been a death or kidnap in/of a plane, yet we all remember how disastrous that can be if it happens... Must we have another incident before we learn our lesson?

 

[Ninja_sheep]

I don't really care.


Personally I think those terrorist organisations are terrible at what they're doing. Seriously. I don't think there was a single succesful terrorist attack within the past two years in the US.
Really, when was the last terrorist attack within the US? There was this fail carbomb and the guy who failed to light a bomb on the plane.

 

[FireCat]

Seriously, what's the next step in TSA madness?

 

[Dr.Jack]

Ninja Sheep let me tell you something. They are EXCELLENT at what they do. Maybe not in the US, but in Iraq, Afghanistan, India?... And believe me, it is a matter of time until the next big terrorist attack, probably somewhere in Europe. The only reason that terrorist didn't succeed yet is because the huge amount of resources countries spend fighting terrorists. And still they get stronger every day, with less money, resources, technology and man power. What do you make of that?

Do NOT underestimate them, they gain more and more strength and support (from countries such as Iran, Syria and indirectly also from China and N.Korea). Believe me war is waging, and unlike many think, we have yet to gain the upper hand.

And that is why such equipment is so critical to counter their moves and protect citizens.

 

[FireCat]

And believe me, it is a matter of time until the next big terrorist attack, probably somewhere in Europe. The only reason that terrorist didn't succeed yet is because the huge amount of resources countries spend fighting terrorists. And still they get stronger every day, with less money, resources, technology and man power. What do you make of that?

Why you are so sure they would Just hijack a plane? Maybe, they would, Just take their own airplane to attack us?

Well, If all must get through a TSA scanner Then I say again! pilots should get scanned also. Period.

Well, Terrorists can Just installed their own pilot! lol

 

[sqrage]

Let me rephrase that. I didn't mean scaring them off, but it would make life much harder on them. Think about it. Your luggage is scanned thoroughly, the one that is sent to the cargo and the one you take with you to the airplane. Where else would you hide bombs? On yourself! These machines make it pretty much impossible, meaning the options of harming an airplane are almost gone without the use of super technology.

It is true that it has been a while since there has been a death or kidnap in/of a plane, yet we all remember how disastrous that can be if it happens... Must we have another incident before we learn our lesson?

I don't remember a bomb ever going off on an airplane though... 911 was done with box cutters and if they really want to, I'm sure they can get something as small as box cutters onto an airplane even with TSA.

What's stopping 30 terrorists from all booking the same flight and then just holding up the entire airplane with just their bare hands and commanding the pilot to crash into a building again?

 

[Wiseman_2]

Scanners? Pointless. Utterly pointless. I have said it many a time before, but you cannot stop a determined terrorist. So what if they can't target planes? They'll switch to subways and buses. I was in London a few weeks ago, and on the subway there are no scanners or anything which would pick up on a suicide bomber in time to neutralise them and prevent another 7/7. In addition to that, we went down on a high speed train from Leeds which was packed out and had no security scanners or any such equivelant. If even a small bomb had exploded when the train was at full speed, there would have been dozens of deaths from the derailment.

And even if there are no deaths to speak of, if the plot is foiled, many terrorists still see it as a propaganda victory, recruiting more for their cause.

Then of course there is the problem of the "Lone Wolf" terrorist, the one who works entirely alone and with no networks for security services to pick up on. These individuals are highly unlikely to strike in a suicide attack, as they wouldn't be able to broadcast their point. They would instead target buildings, ground transport and other so-called "soft" targets. Take Timothy McVeigh for example. All the security scanners in the world would not have been able to stop him blowing up the Alfred P. Murrah federal building in Oklahoma City.

In short? I'm opposed to scanners not so much because they are a violation of privacy (but I very much despise the fact they are) but mainly because they are a hindrance only to the average Joe public, and not to your common garden terrorist.

 

[esb]

I agree that scanners and pat downs aren't enough to prevent a terrorist attack. But the more focus of the debate is to go through them or not. They're already implemented, nothing you can do about it but boycott airlines and keep complaining. Maybe someday they'll listen.

This is a free country? When the hell did you get that idea? No place in the world is free.