United States v Time

New_U.S.

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"The United States in currently the sole superpower on Earth. It created the first nuclear weapon, put a man on the moon, and won the cold war. It is today a culteral, political, and military icon. How would you stack up the United States to passed empires and countries such as the Roman Empire, British Empire, Mongols, etc... Which country or empire would you say is that greatest?"
 

UndeadDragon

Super Moderator
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The British Empire was huge. The British Empire in 1922 had a population of 458 million people (one quarter of the world at the time). And it wasn't that long ago either.
 

Jackal

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Size
British Empire - 36.6 million km² (under George V in 1922)

Population
British Empire - 531.3 million (in 1938)

Economy (GDP)
British Empire - $683.3 billion (in 1938)



British Empire ftw?
 

Ninva

Анна Ахматова
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Is the power of an empire measured by population, wealth, or something else?
 

EatShrooms

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Won the Cold War? Heh, what did the US win? The Soviet Union collapsed under it's own weight.

Also, the best empire = British Empire. They had the most land of any nation through all of history. That's all that matters to me.
 

Wiseman_2

Missy wants blood!
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I would say a combination of those factors, and size as well. Also the power it wields on the world stage.

And yeah... the British empire was probably the greatest the world will ever see and forged links that are still around today, while other past empires simply disintegrated.
 

New_U.S.

ITS OVER 9000!
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And yeah... the British empire was probably the greatest the world will ever see and forged links that are still around today, while other past empires simply disintegrated.

The Roman Empire, however, is still today an icon on western culture. Many modern languages are based on latin and the Roman empire lasted the longest. They also harbored the creation of Christianity. Which has its

You're talking about amount of land and amount of people the British empire controled, but if you look at it, much of that land is against weaker enemies. Their massive land came from Africa, India, and Australia. These weren't the hardest enemies to invade. All of these enemies were majorly technologically behind. Yet if the British Empire was so strong, why couldn't it do more to any country in Europe itself. It was in a power struggle with the rest of Europe. The British Empire didn't do well against any major enemy. Britian lost in the Americas, they beat Napolean, but he had already been beaten by Russia once. They ended in a stalemate in WW1 until the U.S. tipped it in their favor, and they would have been invaded in WW2 if it wasn't for a Hitler invading Russia. Verse a compitent enemy, Britian was consistently bad.

However if you're talking about land being power, the Mongols controlled an area of land that spanned from China, to Europe, to the Middle East (12,741,000 sq mi) and that land was all continuous and taken from enemies with equal technology for the most part. Some of their enemies were even stronger!

Being the "best" empire depends on what you are judging on. Land, imho, doesn't solve anything. At the same time military ability doesn't win either. Alexander the Great's Macedonian Empire conquered the entire Middle East through West India. However when he died, it tore itself up. That is the best example of a strong empire with EXTREMELY poor longevity.

However don't think I'm jumping on the American bandwagon. The U.S. has been a strong global military power since WW1, and after WW2 was a strong political power too. Since 1989, the U.S. has been the cultural, economic, political, and military power. In essece, its somewhat of a Pax Americana.

These would be the factors I would personally judge on:
-Land with control over or strong influence on.
-Military Ability
-Cultural Impact
-Longevity of power****

The major thing the U.S. lacks is longevity of power. And although I think the U.S. will always be a major player in western culture, I think the Chinese are coming up fast and will make it so the United States wont be able to call themselves the best ever.

So after all of that who do I think was the best ever? All of the old ones are done, and the ones currently here don't cut it.

I think, however, there have been some major rivalries that have had controled huge areas of the world under sway, however they were always against each other. Funny how the world works.
 

phyrex1an

Staff Member and irregular helper
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The only thing I will judge on is how long the nation was considered noteworthy in school history books around the world after the nation collapsed.

Without having my old history book available I would guess my current choose is the Persians, thought, any nation after them might become my new pick in the following millennia. Romans get bonus points for coining the word empire. Britain gets bonus points for the spreading of the English language. US gets bonus points for being the most peace loving superpower in history (kinda sad isn't it?).
 

Seb!

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No empire even comes close to the longevity of the Egyptian Empire. That beings said, there was little development after a certain point. Scholars have said during a specific 2000 year period (4000-2000 B.C.), NO stylistic, cultural, or scientific innovations occurred. This is difficult to comprehend. 2000 years with NOTHING being changed.

Anyway, nothing can really compare to the innovation of the American Empire, counting in the miniscule growth time compared to scientific and cultural power gained. But its not really fair to look at it that way. It has had a lot of advantages, not least because it was born during the beginning of the modern era.
 

esb

Because none of us are as cruel as all of us.
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Eh. To me a good empire is one that can remain standing. Do whatever it wants, or most. Can support itself. Doesn't sound like a democracy though. So far I haven't heard of any similar.
 

Seb!

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I thought china was the country that has been going longest...

That wasn't really an empire because it was controlled by different government systems and by different people, or dynasties. The borders also changed a lot.
 

New_U.S.

ITS OVER 9000!
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No empire even comes close to the longevity of the Egyptian Empire. That beings said, there was little development after a certain point. Scholars have said during a specific 2000 year period (4000-2000 B.C.), NO stylistic, cultural, or scientific innovations occurred. This is difficult to comprehend. 2000 years with NOTHING being changed.

Eygpts been occupied more times then France!
 

Seb!

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Yeah and with the same government system. That's why it's an empire.

the historical period during which a nation is under such a government
 

Wiseman_2

Missy wants blood!
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You're talking about amount of land and amount of people the British empire controled, but if you look at it, much of that land is against weaker enemies. Their massive land came from Africa, India, and Australia. These weren't the hardest enemies to invade. All of these enemies were majorly technologically behind.
And you are saying that the Romans faced an enemy with equal levels of technology to theirs? With complex government systems?

Also, since when was the United States an Empire?
And while it may no longer be an empire, the British commonwealth still remains; the empire remains one which had lasting effects on the world. While we still see evidence of other empires being in existence at some point in time, none that I know of still have links between countries.
 

Samael88

Evil always finds a way
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I would say that the skanish empire or whatever it will be called it the best or will be when we break free from sweden:p

Skane or "skåne" in swedish is the most southern part of sweden.

When we break free, we will conquer the whole world:p

For you who wonders what it is here is a map over sweden to show you:
http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild:FC-Skåne,_Sweden.png
the little brown thing at the bottom is skane:D
 

Wiseman_2

Missy wants blood!
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It controls territory outside its domestic borders.
What territory is this?

Also, definition from Wiki of "Empire":
An empire is a state that extends dominion over populations distinct culturally and ethnically from the culture/ethnicity at the center of power. Empire contrasts with the example of a federation, where a large or small multi-ethnic state – or even an ethnically homogeneous one – relies on mutual agreement amongst its component political units which retain a high degree of autonomy
 

New_U.S.

ITS OVER 9000!
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And you are saying that the Romans faced an enemy with equal levels of technology to theirs? With complex government systems?

Also, since when was the United States an Empire?
And while it may no longer be an empire, the British commonwealth still remains; the empire remains one which had lasting effects on the world. While we still see evidence of other empires being in existence at some point in time, none that I know of still have links between countries.

You serious dude? First off, yes, the Romans did fight equal opponants with equal, just most of them were just said to Barbarians just because they werent Roman. They beat the Greeks, and invaded part of the Middle East, Eygpt, Gaul, Iberia, and North Africa. Carthage? Pontus? The Huns? The Franks? Then add on the innumeral Germanic Tribes. Weapons wise they were about equal. Some even had better (for instance the Hun's composite bow). The Romans won because of professionalism. Youre trying to compare that to the British mowing down African and Indian tribes with guns and cannons?

Second, the U.S. can be considered a modern empire because its the strongest nation-state on Earth. It owns territorys such as Puerto Rico and Guam. The U.S. military has been a factor in the instalation of multiple major governments. They are not puppet governments, yet they are set up based on our own. (Iraq, Afghanistan, Japan, West Germany (eventually all Germany). The U.S. military has golbal reach and has shown to be the most willing military to use that global reach. U.S. culture is spread all over the world and emulated throughout. Also the worlds most valuable commodity, oil, is traded soley in USD.

From a modern point of view, that would make an "empire". Thats like saying the Soviet Union wasn't an empire. Large imperial country, their system of government spread quickly throughout the world, created the Warsaw Pact. Is that not an empire too?

Look, don't get me wrong, the British Empire was good, but don't make them God.
 
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