Warcraft still better than starcraft II?

[Bloodcount]

Hey, What i don't get is that if starcraft II doesn't have heros it means that warcraft III is going to be better for custmo maps.This is kinda..well...crappy.I mean the games like Footman are fun, but if there aren't any heros there won't be enuf spells for eaven a game like castle fight(not to mention an RPG or somthing.)what do you think???

 

[Flare]

I think Starcraft II will have heroes, but they will be restricted to campaign(s) and custom maps (not 100% sure)

 

[Bloodcount]

I think Starcraft II will have heroes, but they will be restricted to campaign(s) and custom maps (not 100% sure)

Dude, I am talking for abilities!!!!Heros are made from abilities.If starcraft II doesn'thave abilities(a lot) this is gonna be bad for the map editing(I mean say Good Bye to D.O.T.A. hero siege maps, footman wars, practicly evrything we love)(eavven to the sheepy based maps ;( )

 

[Flare]

That's why people are able to make custom abilities? One of the Q&A batches said something about being able to create totally new abilities through the Data Editor, so if that's possible, it's highly unlikely that they are going to prevent you from adding abilities to the heroes, and you'll still be able to make trigegred spells too, from what I know

Dude, I am talking for abilities!!!!

Well, from your first post, it seems to be more concerning heroes than abilities

 

[Ninva]

If we can make heroes with an exp system, then I'll be happy.

 

[equal]

Blizzard ensured that a map like dota will be reproducable in SCII.
Abilities and Exp will be just the same as in WC3.
But the Standart melee games will have NO heroes.

 

[Bloodcount]

That's why people are able to make custom abilities? One of the Q&A batches said something about being able to create totally new abilities through the Data Editor, so if that's possible, it's highly unlikely that they are going to prevent you from adding abilities to the heroes, and you'll still be able to make trigegred spells too, from what I know


Well, from your first post, it seems to be more concerning heroes than abilities

Yeah, I am considered for both because on this level i can't do triggering spells(i modify them good though) Well, i am conserned about an xp system because the hero is a unit with skills that need to be leeveled up(and dmg that goes up) But i think that i can change the dmg in starcraft1.When unit does xxx kills change dmg to:

 

[Jackal]

I see no big reason to go to Starcraft II editor from Warcraft III World editor, I'll probably just stick to Warcraft

 

[Sim]

Blizzard wouldn't be stupid enough to make a new game with an editor less developped.

Looking at Starcraft's map editor and then wc3's, we can clearly see an improvement. Clearly, Starcraft2's map editor will be an improved version of wc3's.

So, in my eyes, Starcraft2 > Warcraft3.

 

[Bloodcount]

Blizzard wouldn't be stupid enough to make a new game with an editor less developped.

Looking at Starcraft's map editor and then wc3's, we can clearly see an improvement. Clearly, Starcraft2's map editor will be an improved version of wc3's.

So, in my eyes, Starcraft2 > Warcraft3.

Don't know, but after i saw wath Blizzaed did with starcraft ghost I don't trust them...

 

[TheDamien]

Don't know, but after i saw wath Blizzaed did with starcraft ghost I don't trust them...

To be honest Blizzard know quite a bit more about designing good games than you.

Anyway, the Sc2 editor will have more cool stuff and fewer limitations than the war3 one, and hopefully a better scripting language too. Warcraft style heroes and items are essentially confirmed, they just won't appear in the the campaign or melee gameplay.

 

[Daskunk]

I think this should fix any of your lack of abilities fear:

As development for StarCraft II moves forward, so is the Map Editor for StarCraft II. We have no doubt that there will be countless awesome mods created for StarCraft II, so we want to make sure your Map Editor questions are definitely not left out of the Q&As. Keep the questions pouring in!

Also, in Batch 38, it was mentioned that Sunken and Spore colonies could move and plant off of Creep while also taking damage when not on Creep. To update, Zerg defenses will not be able to plant off of Creep.

Chat with Devs: Batch 39 focuses on the development of StarCraft IIs Map Editor and I got a chance to chat with our Map Editor Designer, Brett Wood. Brett was able to answer quite a few of our community map editors below. Furthermore, he wanted to also add that the StarCraft II Map Editor will improve upon the World Editor from Warcraft III in every way, with several new features such as having all abilities in the game being data driven. Brett Wood elaborates here on what it means for all data in the game to be data driven:

[Brett Wood] Lets say you have a cool idea for an implosion type of ability that will rapidly shrink down a targeting unit, then cause an energy shockwave that damages all nearby units within a certain area. Since there is no standard ability with a shrink-down effect, in Warcraft III youd have to resort to some fancy trigger work to achieve this effect. In StarCraft II, this kind of effect can be set up completely in the data files, and you could make the entire ability without having to use any triggers or scripting at all. Generally speaking, setting up abilities and effects will be easier through data customization than using triggers, although there will definitely be a learning curve there as well.

As always, feel free to give the Dev Team and I a w00t if you are enjoying the Q&As!

---StarCraft II Q&A Batch 39: Map Maker Series---

1) Will the new map editor support placing of traps, doors, and other things commonly referred to as doodads in unorthodox situations? (ie doors, auto guns, wall traps in a jungle map)

Yes, any object defined in the data files can be placed on the map, regardless of which tileset it is normally associated with.

2) Will the new map editor support extended upgrade values? (ie, 30 upgrades)

Yes, upgrades are arbitrarily extendable, as they were in Warcraft III. In addition, upgrades will now be downgradeable via triggers as well (by using a negative value), which was a very common request in Warcraft III.

3) Will the new editor still support all the other ideas currently implemented in StarEdit?

This question is a bit vague. As far as I know, everything the original StarCraft could do, StarCraft II can do.

4) What additional features will the new editor have?

How much time have you got? Very broadly speaking, the biggest improvements over Warcraft III will be found in the data editor, where literally every game database file is exposed for modification, and in the trigger dditor, which now features the ability to define custom functions and libraries. That said, virtually every aspect of the editor has at least some improvements over Warcraft III/StarCraft.

5) Do you plan to take ideas from third party programs and update the editor frequently to meet the demands of the map making community?

Absolutely. We are very much committed to supporting the map/mod community as much as possible, and well be keeping an eye on the forums and updating the editor as often as we can to incorporate new suggestions.

6) Will be a tool to transfer WC3 models to SC2? (battle.net) -Ragnarok_X

No, there will not be, as StarCraft II is built with a totally new engine.

7) Given that we know the Roach regenerates faster than normal, will players be able to change the regeneration rates for Zerg units? (battle.net) DrakeClawfang

Yes, all regeneration rates can be easily changed.

8) Will players be able to give units Protoss shields or Zerg regeneration that don't normally have them? ie, a regenerating Zealot, a Ghost with shields, etc. (battle.net) DrakeClawfang

Yes, you could create a Roach-Zealot hybrid if you would like. Many passive abilities can be interchanged similarly.

[added from thread] 9) Is the new StarCraftII map editor able to make our own 4th race by combining 3 races different looking and ability etc. together? even more combining with some new units from the editor? (battle.net) -cS)beta

Yes, custom races are fully supported, including the ability to choose them from the game lobby while playing melee maps, as long as the mod defining the race is loaded.

I'm sure you guys will love that I know I'm excited!

--End of Transmission---

Here is any other related map editor info for the sc2 map editor, in case you missed somthing else as well.

Spoiler

Batch 1

1. What type of scripting language is being used? Aspiring map/mod makers would like to know.

StarCraft IIs editor features a proprietary scripting language that is based largely on C with some special parameters specific to the game. Of course, for most users, they will have access to the more user friendly Trigger Editor which will allow beginner and intermediate map designers to make advanced maps without having to learn the particular details of the scripting language. Well release further information about the world editor as we move forward.

Batch 8

Will the StarCraft II Editor be easy or hard to use?

Blizzard game editors have always been aimed at empowering the community to create a huge variety of fun game modes and maps. This editor will be no different.

The editor for StarCraft II will be very easy to use for new players to create their own custom maps and games. Furthermore, this editor will have many more scripting options available to players, to allow for even more player creativity in their maps beyond that seen in prior RTS titles such as Warcraft I

Batch 9

Will there be some old units from StarCraft be included in the Map Editor for StarCraft II?

There will be units included in the Map Editor which will not be in the standard multiplayer skirmish mode. These will include various units from the original StarCraft, such as the Protoss Dragoon.

Batch 12

Will you be able to use custom army colors in the game? (teamliquid.net)

In custom maps created through the Map Editor, players will be able to select any color for their factions. In multiplayer games, players will be able to choose between approximately 12-18 colors.

Batch 18

StarCraft II Q&A Batch 18: Map Maker Series 1

Hope everyone had a great weekend! For this batch, I'm pleased to announce the introduction of the Map Maker Series of Q&As, which will be mixed in periodically with our traditional batches of Q&As, to give map makers the 'heads up' on our powerful Map Editor for StarCraft II. I know many of you have great plans for mods and maps for StarCraft II, so I can't wait to tell you more about the program you'll be using.

Answering questions, we have Brett Wood, our StarCraft II Senior Software Engineer, but better known as our 'Superfly Father of ScumEdit Programmer by Day Ninja by Night.'

Will doodad placement values increase? (ie, more than 25)

[Brett Wood] We expect the doodad placement value will be on the same order as Warcraft III, which I believe was something like 10,000, so definitely way more than 25

Will the number of available locations/triggers increase? The current limit on locations really cramps some ideas.

[Brett Wood] Any limits on both regions and triggers will be at least in the thousands.

Will the new map editor include ALL the triggers in the program unlike Staredit?

[Brett Wood] Yes, even moreso than Warcraft IIIs WorldEdit. Weve been making a point of ensuring that ALL script functionality is also exposed in the Trigger Editor UI.

Will max unit limits increase? The current unit limit on maps is quite a crimper, and nobody likes CCMU (cannot create more units).

[Brett Wood] I dont recall the exact unit limit in the original StarCraft, but the StarCraft II limit will likely be a healthy boost over the limit in Warcraft III. The exact value hasnt been nailed down yet and will depend on optimizations near the end of the project (i.e. shortly before release).

Will the new map editor include unused units such as the crashed scouts, turrets, eggs, nukes, scarabs, crash command center, etc? Third party programs were needed to use these.

[Brett Wood] All units defined in the data files will be usable in the editor. I believe this was true in Warcraft III as well.

Batch 22

StarCraft II Q&A - Batch 22: Map Maker Series

Today we will continue the series we had started a couple of weeks ago. Dustin Browder and Brett Wood, Senior Software Engineer will answer questions from the Map Making Community. If you have questions concerning custom made maps and mods, wed like to invite you to ask them in this thread so they can be included in part 3 of the series.

Chat with Devs:[/b] One of the most popular questions we get when it comes to creating UMS (User Map Settings) games or mods is: Will there be a DotA for StarCraft II? For those who are not familiar, DotA (Defense of the Ancients), is a popular UMS game created for Warcraft III. StarCraft compared to Warcraft III, does not focus on heroes as much, and heroes or units do not have the same experience gaining mechanic as Warcraft III, making it difficult to imagine how a game like DotA could be reproduced for StarCraft. Nonetheless, after chatting it up with our devs, we found out the ability to allow heroes and units to gain experience is built into the Map Editor, though it will not likely be in single player or standard multiplayer. In addition, those units can also be toggled to have the ability to carry an inventory, which is also a characteristic needed in UMS maps such as DotA. With those two additions, we can rest assured that our clever community modders can handle the rest in creating some awesome custom games.

Will you finally be able to mix and match terrain types instead of being stuck on jungle, twilight, etc?

[Dustin Browder] Yes terrain texture is mixable now. Also tilesets are also mixable. [Brett Wood] Essentially, you can define your own tileset in the editor, something that wasnt really supported even in Warcraft III.

Will the new StarCraft II Map Editor support text coloring, unit coloring, player "12" (i.e. neutral player) units?

[Dustin Browder] Yes, all of these features will be supported.

Will maps be larger than 256x256?

[Brett Wood] The maximum map size will still be 256x256, and we have no plans to increase that.


Will the new map editor support locking maps? People hate losing credit for a map.

[Dustin Browder] Yes, we are planning to support this feature. We hope that this feature will give the modding community more incentive to create their own original maps.

Will the new map editor support "square" terrain building as well?

[Dustin Browder] Yes. In the editor, users can adjust the footprint of buildings to whatever shape and size they like.

Batch 27

4) Some new maps used in the pro scene for StarCraft have started to include permanent spells like "Dark Swarm" and "Disruption Web" as a part of terrain. Are there any plans to allow this as a kind of special terrain by default or allow map makers to add it as a special attribute to some sections of the terrain?
Examples would be areas with decreased movement for some or all units like shallow water, terrain making units immune to missile fire like dark swarm or terrain making the units unable to fire like web.

If you plan to include it will it be usable on melee maps or UMS only?
- CuddlyCuteKitten

[Dustin Browder] Our data editor allows the creation of this type of terrain. You could easily put this type of terrain on melee maps. We have not finalized our feature set for terrain yet so I dont know what will make the final cut for the default Blizzard maps.

Batch 30

StarCraft II Q&A - Batch 30: Map Maker Series

Going along with out monthly discussion topic about map making requests, we've sought to get more answers to help direct these upcoming discussions.

Chat with Devs: Brett Woods is back with us to answer our community map making questions. We cant stress enough that StarCraft II is going to have immense potential in the UMS (User Map Settings) area, where we hope to seriously empower the community with the tools you need, to create some awesome gaming additions to StarCraft II.

As always, feel free to give the Devs and I a w00t if you are enjoying these batches!

---StarCraft II Q&A Batch 30: Map Maker Series 3---

1) Will it be possible to code the game so map makers can make maps where people can stop incoming spell/missile?

This should be possible through customized ability data and/or triggers.

2) Will we have selectable male/female of every unit?

No, we don't have plans to include male and female versions of each unit.

3) Will we have the option to give players the option to change weapons in-game?

While we don't have any plans for a specialized interface for this, it would be possible using the highly flexible ability system.

4) Will you guys link multiplayer maps, so mapmakers can make multiplayer campaigns?

Yes, we do plan to support multiplayer campaigns and linked maps.

5) Will all buildings stand alone and also can we have the ability to disable tech trees?

The tech tree will be fully configurable through customized data and/or triggers.

6) Will research or firing a skill in a certain location be part of the tech tree enabling, for example Stim Packs could be researched to enable a Factory?

Yes, the tech tree and upgrade system will be fully configurable from the editor.


7) Will it be possible for AI to be commanded to research a skill, perform an upgrade, build a building at a location, build a unit at a location, retreat from a location?

Yes, there will be extensive AI scripting support.

8) Will mapmakers have the ability to set weather that can change the terrain and interrupt gameplay for players? Is this for anywhere or in a specific location?

Weather effect technology has not yet been finalized. However, even if weather effects do not affect gameplay normally, it would be possible to drive both the desired weather effects and associated gameplay effects through triggers.

Batch 33

5. To what degree will StarCraft II allow for remapping - limited remapping a la Warcraft III, or complete remapping of key bindings?
- Excalibur_Z (teamliquid.net)

We are planning to support key-mapping for StarCraft II. The extent of the ability for remapping keys is still to be determined. Even in current experimentations, we have found that there are often many issues with conflicting key bindings as there are very few open unmapped keys to be swapped in and out.

Batch 35

8. Is the Tauren Marine going to be included in the StarCraft II map editor? (battle.net) scorpionbrood

Yes.

Batch 40

4. So far the map editor seems to be a very powerful tool which doesnt constrain the map makers creativity at all. Will it even be possible to edit critical abilities like path finding? If so, there would be really no limits, or at least none we can imagine at this point. (starcraft2.4players.de)

Pathfinding, the method in which a unit will determine how to move, is handled by code, and will not be able to be edited within the map editor. Nonetheless, map makers will be able to edit things such as footprints, speed, and the size of units, which will affect the movement rates of units.

Batch 42

3. Concerning resources there is one big issue for mapmakers: There are only two of them. For many UMS-maps you need more different resource-types than gas and minerals, thus mapmakers were forced to use even civilians as a sort of resource. So will mapmakers be able to place their one, gather-able resources on the map such as lumber or gold? (starcraft2.4players.de)

Yes, we have recently added support for one additional custom resource type. Additional custom resources types may be implemented in the future, but there are no plans at the moment.


6. Will it be possible to use the full 3D cinematics mechanic from the single player campaign in the map editor? (sc2pod.com)

Yes, we are looking forward to seeing some awesome custom cut scenes from the community.

7. Most users know that even invisible units can be seen by experienced players since they cause this nice little blur effect while in Warcraft 3 invisible units are indeed invisible aside from leaving footprints on the ground. So what about transferring the 'real' invisibility into the World of Starcraft by allowing mapmakers to choose from those two different invisible modes for each unit? (starcraft2.4players.de)

Map makers will be able to remove the blur effect that is currently on StarCraft IIs invisible units.

 

[Bloodcount]

Well, you made my day.(time to sstart saving for Starcraft II)Wait...I know that there ISN'T a release date, but any one have any idias.I think that the gamewill come this christmas or it will be finished in the late 2009.

 

[Uberplayer]

If Starcraft II does not have an exp system, you are able to code one.

I don't believe that the data editor will so good.

 

[rover2341]

O The Glory Of the starcraft 2 editor... Being able to control more units, much better. even less units better. Starcraft 2 editor is going to be nice for people like me who only know so much. Makeing it more easy and powerful for the little guy (points at self).

O The Glory of the new editor is going to be rad.

Plus there is going to be battle.net 2.0 also going to be nice for starcraft 2 maps. You will see (at least its a large rumor, its gona be a little more like steam.)

The Glory! O The Glory!

 

[Kenny]

[Brett Wood] Lets say you have a cool idea for an implosion type of ability that will rapidly shrink down a targeting unit, then cause an energy shockwave that damages all nearby units within a certain area. Since there is no standard ability with a shrink-down effect, in Warcraft III youd have to resort to some fancy trigger work to achieve this effect. In StarCraft II, this kind of effect can be set up completely in the data files, and you could make the entire ability without having to use any triggers or scripting at all. Generally speaking, setting up abilities and effects will be easier through data customization than using triggers, although there will definitely be a learning curve there as well.

It looks to me as though they are just improving the "object editor" part of the world editor. Maybe this means that they will not improve the programming language available to us, as they are just making everything possible through the object editor. Someone might have to just mod the editor again, lol. But if the object editor is as expansive and "all-powerful" as they say it is, then im looking forward to it. However, i don't think that you could make a spell, suck as meathook or something like that through object editor, or other really trippy spells from games like Age of Myths.

 

[Bloodcount]

It looks to me as though they are just improving the "object editor" part of the world editor. Maybe this means that they will not improve the programming language available to us, as they are just making everything possible through the object editor. Someone might have to just mod the editor again, lol. But if the object editor is as expansive and "all-powerful" as they say it is, then im looking forward to it. However, i don't think that you could make a spell, suck as meathook or something like that through object editor, or other really trippy spells from games like Age of Myths.

Well, i bet that in the starcraft II editor you won't be able to make a spell like the devil trigger (Nero's devil trigger) in DMC4 or the dimentional cut.So i am saing that Blizzard are gonna make it more flixsible, and the triggers are gonna be used fore really complicated spells.(besides, after i saw DOTA 1.08 i regained my trust in Blizzard)

 

[Crusher]

For me,Warcraft III is the best game ever,and no game can beat warcraft III!

 

[Bloodcount]

For me,Warcraft III is the best game ever,and no game can beat warcraft III!

Yeah, the time period in starcraft isn't much for my taste...still it is gonna be played.And one moore thing- i read arround the web that there is gonna be a warcraft IV in the far futyre(think that it is gonna be like starctaft and starcraft II)

 

[BANANAMAN]

For me,Warcraft III is the best game ever,and no game can beat warcraft III!

So i take it you don't fancy pwning shit with weapons of mass destruction?

I mean srsly if you haven't commanded 12 carriers and 12 battlecruisers then you haven't experienced starcraft fully...

I mean which is better?

24 Grypon riders backed up by a hero fullly leveled with spells of massive destruction? Or 12 battlecruisers that can do 250 damage each at long range due to The Yamato Cannon. 3K!! damage!! No melee HERO CAN WITSTAND THAT MUCH CONCENTRATED FIRE POWER!! The 24 Grypon Riders? Pah they will fall to my carriers!!!