US News Wikileaks: what the leaked State Department cables say

[Sevion]

The Palestinian religion? Yes, I know. Israel is the holy land for the Jews, just because the Muslims have the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem doesn't mean it's their holy land (it might be a holy site to them), Israel belongs to the Jews, through and through.

I think it's ridiculous for the Muslims to want Jerusalem or even a part of it, as their own.

What makes Israel solely the property of the Jews...

Enlighten me...

and how do you know that they aren't told for other reasons or as an abuse of power for personal gain?

How can you know for either argument? You can't until you know the outcome.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_Harbor_advance-knowledge_debate

I would say the fact that the U.S. lost/refuses to show documents is proof enough that they were up to something, but perhaps you can explain why they still need to keep secrets even 60+ years after the fact

perhaps, but I say doing something for something that exists is better then doing something for something that does not exist

I wouldn't know. No one but the government truly for a fact knows the entire story except for maybe the government.

support the people? and what do the people want if they are misinformed by propaganda? the people are led like blind sheep and only support the government because of lies - don't you see the potential for abuse of power? the government can do anything they want and get away with it here because they can find some sort of lies/propaganda to spread to back them up, and the people won't know any better (unless wikileaks/etc. gives them contradicting information, which then makes the people think, and when people think, they arrive at a better conclusion)

why don't you look into governments that control the people by propaganda and see how those governments are bad? Nazi Germany comes to mind, the propaganda justified the holocaust, and the end result was rather devastating

while the U.S. isn't there yet, it is getting closer and closer as far as how it regulates information/speech

In all of known history (by me and my teacher), there has been no government as uncorruptted as the US government. I seriously doubt that the US government is abusing its power so terribly bad. Denying it? No. I'm not. There's always abuse. But the US government, in our opinion, is one of the most stable and uncorrupted governments in all history, if not the most.

 

[Jedimindtrixxx]

In all of known history (by me and my teacher), there has been no government as uncorruptted as the US government. I seriously doubt that the US government is abusing its power so terribly bad. Denying it? No. I'm not. There's always abuse. But the US government, in our opinion, is one of the most stable and uncorrupted governments in all history, if not the most.

HRMHRM canada? :3

and i very much doubt that sev.
im not sure i trust american history teachers because everytime i speak with an american on historical matters they seem to be mentally handicapped at best.

 

[Slapshot136]

<delete double post>

 

[Slapshot136]

In all of known history (by me and my teacher), there has been no government as uncorruptted as the US government. I seriously doubt that the US government is abusing its power so terribly bad. Denying it? No. I'm not. There's always abuse. But the US government, in our opinion, is one of the most stable and uncorrupted governments in all history, if not the most.

and how do you know it will remain that way? I don't see it staying like that for very long

and how do you know that they aren't told for other reasons or as an abuse of power for personal gain?

How can you know for either argument? You can't until you know the outcome.

you can know that it won't happen (or not nearly as much) if there is enough information publicly available such that the people will be able to tell when they are lied to

heres an example - a politician takes money that came from taxes and buys himself a nice $300,000 car with it, claims that it's for "work" - if the information as to where tax money goes is available, that isn't likely to happen, but if it's hidden and impossible to find, it's much more likely and easier for them to get away with it (ok make a car is a little visible, but lets say a retirement fund or something)

I wouldn't know. No one but the government truly for a fact knows the entire story except for maybe the government.

so you don't know because the government and/or wikleaks haven't released the information yet - ok, that's understandable but WHY hasn't the information been released? why is it mysteriously unavailable? or are you going to accept something vague like "because of national security" without any more explanation? - you realize that most of the information regarding that technically should be available, but the government claims that it's missing/lost, and thus not releasing it - I would like a little more accountability from the government, and to know more about exactly what happened and who is responsible

 

[Miz]

Most of this stuff is just basic International politics people... This is how the world works and how we prevent from killing each other. Everyone spies on one another, everyone steals information from one another and everyone tells everyone else what they want to hear. No country and I mean no country is an innocent one (or as Sevion said before uncorrupted when it comes to National Politics) as that is what politics is. Like it or not.

The thing is many people, especially the media are getting hyped up on this issue, making it a bigger deal then it was to begin with.

"Now, I've heard the impact of these releases on our foreign policy described as a meltdown, as a game-changer, and so on. I think -- I think those descriptions are fairly significantly overwrought.

The fact is, governments deal with the United States because it's in their interest, not because they like us, not because they trust us, and not because they believe we can keep secrets. Many governments -- some governments deal with us because they fear us, some because they respect us, most because they need us. We are still essentially, as has been said before, the indispensable nation."

~ Robert M. Gates; Secretary of Defense of the United States​

All in all, Wikileaks isn't really doing anything that is so grand onthe scale of things. You could consider them heroes for fighting for an ideology but, in reality they are probably causing more harm to countries (yes not just the United States there is unclassified documents from dozens of countries on Wikileaks) and causing lives to be at risk. (So the real question is, is what they are doing really right?)

In all honesty, my main problem with this issue is Julian Assange who I feel should get off of his high horse before he falls off and breaks his leg. Not so much from what he is doing, but how he acts when he is doing it. If you ever hear an interview, the guy is so pretentious in what he thinks is doing is right that he claims its for his own "self-amusement", as if some judge of the world. Ironically not to mention, he is a (former if still not considered) black-hat criminal hacker and is fleeing rape and molestation charges in Sweden. (Among other things)

 

[Hatebreeder]

Sevion and that other guy ;D

Well, fact is, that some eastern nations have weapons of mass destruction, which they can use against others.

Should nations use just cause to "invade" those countries, or is it not that important to get permission to check for weapons of mass destruction and to dismantle them?

I do not know, however, if WikiLeaks is a primary or secondary information resource. Can anyone tell me this?

 

[Icyculyr]

What makes Israel solely the property of the Jews...

Enlighten me...

It's their country?

Just like the US belongs to the Americans, China to the Chinese, etc. They live there, they formed their country, it belongs wholly and solely to them.

I'm not saying other races can't live there, I'm saying they shouldn't split Jerusalem or give away parts of their land to the Muslims. What if it was New York instead of Jerusalem? Do the Muslims have a right to own (or have as their own) a part of New York just because they want it? I think not.

 

[Sevion]

Please. This is a WikiLeaks thread, not a religious battle.

But to answer you, while Jews were before Christians and Muslims, they are all of the same root. So basically, they all have claim to the land.

But what truly gives anyone "claim" to land? Origin? Wealth? Power?

What truly says "This is your land and no one else's."?

 

[esb]

Wasn't Israel created after a world war?

And US is of the natives. Or was... Your argument is invalid >_<

 

[Jedimindtrixxx]

Wasn't Israel created after a world war?

yes it was.
"Declaration May 14, 1948 "
doesnt mean they havnt been there for far longer than that though.

 

[esb]

So it's about who has been there the longest?

 

[Sevion]

In that case, wouldn't it be the bacteria's land then?

Joking aside, seriously, my question from before: What truly says "This is your land and no one else's."?

 

[esb]

My great great ancestor owned the land! D=<

But that's my point. It's not about who was there first, not anymore. It's about who has the power to take it and keep it. And who wants it.

 

[Icyculyr]

Please. This is a WikiLeaks thread, not a religious battle.

But to answer you, while Jews were before Christians and Muslims, they are all of the same root. So basically, they all have claim to the land.

But what truly gives anyone "claim" to land? Origin? Wealth? Power?

What truly says "This is your land and no one else's."?

Please? I'm not speaking out of context. I simply quoted what you wrote of several nations you thought were likely to instigate WW3 or a war, and I've not made this a religious battle -- simply saying that Israel belongs to the Jews like America belongs to Americans.

No, I disagree. They are most definitely of the same root, but it is a jewish country not a Muslim one. I can't really elaborate more without bringing religion into it, so I leave it at that.

Wasn't Israel created after a world war?

And US is of the natives. Or was... Your argument is invalid >_<

It was, but it existed long before. Also, the US belonged to the natives before it was invaded, currently "americans" live in America, it is their country. Currently the jewish people live in Israel, it is their country.

Anywayz, I think I'll probably leave the topic alone as we don't seem to be getting anywhere

 

[esb]

United States will belong to "Americans" aslong as they can keep it. Until as a stronger power comes in and takes it. They've managed to keep it.

 

[Bartuc08]

United States will belong to "Americans" aslong as they can keep it. Until as a stronger power comes in and takes it. They've managed to keep it.

QFT

I hate to say it, but the Jewish people can claim that Israel is theirs all they want, but it seems to me that the Muslims have taken control of it, and seem to have control over it currently.

As far as WikiLeaks goes.... Anything that endangers my life, and the lives of US armed forces is something I can't approve of.

A lot of people look at the political ramifications brought on by WikiLeaks, but overlook that fact that military secrets are also posted. If the governments get to keep their secrets so that I can remain safe, then so be it.