Zerg Really Easy to Kill?

Oninuva

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Anyone else notice that it's really easy to beat a Zerg? Especially as Terran?
 

sqrage

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Yea in 2v2 whenever me and my friend vs a Zerg or 2 the game is over in less than 15 minutes. Zealot and Marine rush them and it's over.
 

Joccaren

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A lot of it has to do with the difficulty of playing as the Zerg. I win more thanhalf of my games against terran/protoss, however, there are some very easy strategies to defeat the zerg. One, as mentioned is the marine/zealot rush. A good zerg player can counter that early on by sending zerglings to screw with your workers, crippling your economy, but the terran in turn counter that with a wall of supply depots. The zerg can get through this with banelings if done early enough but any decent terran player will by then have enough marines to stop the banelings from ever reaching the depots. If the zerg can survive the first 10-15 minutes, they can become unbeatable however, with a good player.
 

Vellu

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I can only play against Terran. I lose against Toss and Zerg usually. Any good tips for countering them?
 

Siretu

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I lost of my TvZ. It goes something like:

Early game: Baneling bust, screws up my economy(They make lots of banelings so it doesn't matter if I do a baneling-proof wall.

Mid game: Mass mutas to keep me in my base, I tech thors and marines but their mobility owns me anyways

Late game: I finally push only to be greeted by 10 brood lords.

(Really late game: If they don't kill me after the brood lord push, I go battlecruisers but I get hard countered by the corruptors)

I think every loss I make to a zerg is by one of these things.
 

celerisk

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Diary of a Zergling (You may have to "continue", at the top, to get past the SC2 ad).


" it doesn't matter if I do a baneling-proof wall "

Sounds like you're doing something wrong (like, you're too slow in getting stuff up and running).
If my first 20 Zerglings (with or without Banelings) manage to take down as much as an entire supply-depot, I throw a party.
If, additionally, they also take down one SCV after that depot, I put up a Memorial Day celebration.
 

Oninuva

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Siretu, have you tried early banshee cheese? You can factory/barracks at wall to block it from baneling bust, while pumping out marines and a bunker to defend. One bunker goes a long way, anytime they come attack, pull your SCVs off. If they are teching muta, then go early thor + early expand, if they go roach a banshee is a hard counter, hit them hard and follow up with some ground troops to clean up. Cloak is also a must with banshee. Theres a really easy number of ways to counter zerg, it's just make sure you hit them early and scan them. A zerg can't really hide their buildings like a toss or terran so you'll know what their teching.

Terran Mech against their ground forces are just really devastating and theres nothing a few vikings can't handle against brood lords.
 

Viikuna

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Nydus worm assault is pretty cool actually. Building some semi strong defended zerg base and trying to suprise enemy with nydus worm in their base.

Ive only managed to pull this out once, though. I ended up in the platinum league for some silly reason, and those guys there are about 10 times better than me.
 

Oninuva

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I usually keep a siege tank right by my CC just for that sir. :)
 

Viikuna

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One siegetank can be done with scouting mutas. You usually want to make some mutas, since those are pretty damn mobile, and if you are turtling you probably dont have enough resources for doing ground operations, since enemy probably has stronger army.


If theres more tanks and some anti air, it will be more difficult, though. You probably end up tunneling your worm in some corner of enemy base then.


edit. If you are turtling, it becomes kinda hard to expand, though, which means that youll loose in the long run. Also its pretty easy to guess worm assault coming, so its not very stable strategy.

Few burrowed zerlings and squad of mutas can make enemys expanding hard too, though. I guess I just gotta play more. See how many of those guys can see worm attack coming.
 

Oninuva

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Well of course each strat has a counter but what I'm saying is that against a Zerg, there's really nothing that they can do that Terran can't get a quick counter to :p A couple Thors or Marines and yea.. you know what happens next. :p I love thors with SCVs behind them :D
 

tom_mai78101

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I also love Thors with SCVs, then Medivac Dropships, then Siege Tanks.

All you need is at least two of each of them, placed in a group, then do whatever you want. Then you just sit back and enjoy the awesome view of your opponent's jaws dropping. :thup:
 

Viikuna

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Thats true. Figthing with conventional ways just doesnt work, because terrans can almost always get proper hard counter units there.

Thats why Im trying to think stuff like worm assault, where I dont have to worry about enemy army, just destroy his base quickly.


Id also like to explore the possibilities of some wild expanding and winning by overpowering enemy with economy. This far Ive had no succes with it really. I guess I gotta try how well nydus network works with defending expansions far away from each other.
 

celerisk

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" explore the possibilities of some wild expanding and winning by overpowering enemy "

An excellent choice.

As Zerg, your early options are somewhat limited.
Unfortunately, the others have somewhat simpler way to power-up early, and, well, you have to sit tight and hope you hold.
(At least it feels that way most of the time)

An early Zergling attack that takes out an SCV or two helps tremendously.

Once you get a second base up and running... that's when things start to turn in your favor.
That finally means that you can power up unit-production to much higher levels (structures are in place, more larvae, more income, ...).

If you're in three bases... now we're talking.
But the macro-management becomes prohibitive fast... :(

It's very intense to take care of three bases, constantly produce huge amounts of troops and still managing them up close and personal in combat.
In return, it also feels greater if you win! :cool:


Well, just wait. You'll see what we can do once we get Brutalisks as melee units :D


" I gotta try how well nydus network works with defending expansions far away from each other "

Excellently if I dare say so.
The obvious problem with worms is that they are terribly slow to pop up.
A few tanks in the base, along with complete vision of every corner... you'll never get any out.
On your own ground of course... works great.

Not that I'm doing it much... there simply is no time for sight-seeing as Zerg :D

But, well, this isn't StarVille after all.
 

Viikuna

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Managed to do a mixxed muta harras + ling & worm assault in blistering sands map.

Played against protoss. He covered the ramp so well that I had no chance to attack there. He expanded to the natural expo spot.

I survived his first attak, although I lost my natural expo base. Rebuild it soon, though.

Managed to find a distant corner for worm near his base, with my scouting mutas. Couldnt use his second ramp because he had pylon there, so if I tried to break that stone rubble he would have been there in no time.


Executed a muta attack to his expo and zerling attack to his main. Got most of workers.

Lost my assault troops, repeated same attack again. In this point his base was in ruins, but he still had way bigger army than me.

He attacked my natural expo, managed to defeat him, although I only had few mutas left after stopping his attack. He surrendered, so it didnt really matter.

He was pretty noob though. Made mostly just stalkers + zealot + sentry. Only tried to attack my base from the front door. It was pretty fun to play with someone whos kinda like in same skill level as I am. I usually just get pwned in every game by some real pro guys.
 

celerisk

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" I had no chance to attack there "

They say it's impossible to keep a determined Zerg out of your base :p
I try to believe it.

Overlord drops, Nydus Worms, Banelings, burrowed units, ... all at once if needed.
Yes, there is a difference between writing it down here and actually doing it - and, damn, a big one at that :D

Still, if you can't get in... well, make sure he can't get out.
And expand more. Harass more.


" if I tried to break that stone rubble he would have been there in no time "

You should still go for it.
That ramp is fairly large and difficult to block off completely.
You also get more units up closer...
Or, if he actually closes it off completely with Pylons and Cannons... well, that's that many units that are not out in the field killing you.


" Got most of workers. Lost my assault troops "

A somewhat better plan is to fly in, kill one or two workers and get out again before you lose anything.
Repeat somewhere else and check back later.
Small victories do add up too over time. No need to go for the all out kill in one hit. That one never works.


" repeated same attack again "

Hm... because if it didn't work the first 10 times... it can't fail now?
Yep, we've all been there, done that and got the T-shirt :D


" Made mostly just stalkers + zealot + sentry "

That's less poor than it sounds. Depends on the numbers really, and the microing going on.
I've lost to less.


" I usually just get pwned in every game by some real pro guys "

Which reminds me: " Hopefully you're not the real TLO, so it's not casted " :D
 

Viikuna

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My attack was pretty much like this:

-Muta harrasment at expo begins. Stalkers come. Mutas go back.

-Zerlings start suprise attack from worm to main base. Stalkers and zealots come. Zerlings die.

-Mutas attack expo with full power. I kill all the workers there. Stalkers come. Mutas go back. Start to build new worm near main.

-New zerling attack to main. Got all the workers now. Stalkers and zealots come. Zerlings die.

-Mutas try to kill expo nexus. Stalkers come. Mutas go back.

-Enemy has lost his economy and decides to do a direct attack to my base. I pull mutas back to defend it.


( I would have been in big trouble if he had made pheonixes, I guess. )



Anyways. What kind of strategies you guys like?
I just tend to turtle in my base, do muta harrasment, spread burrowed zerlings around the map in scouting purposes, prepare some big worm assault and try to end game with it.
 

Joccaren

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Well, I can come up with good strategies I just lack the skill and detail in them for them to work in field. One strat that I have found almost undefeatable is to get around 15 drones on minerals and 6 on vespene (three per extractor) early on, then spamming zerglings + banelings at their front door continuously whilst teching up to mutas and spamming them from behind. They normally build anti-ground units because of my massed ling rushes and thus my mutalisks completely rape them afterwords. This won't work against pro players, especially terran pro players who are likely to reaper rush at the start and micro your whole army away.
 

Vellu

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I just lost (again) a match to a zergling rush. How can I counter it as Terran? Walling in (Supply Depot and Bunkers) works for the first wave but then there comes just too many zerglings.
 

Bloodcount

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If he goes for mass zerglings, go for hellions. They massacre the little lovable bags of meat.
 
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